----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 1:25
PM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit]
Guernsey
Don
Replies: Hi John, The book I referred to
is "The Guernsey Experiment" by O. & J. Grubiak, which I first met
about 50 years ago, as available for decades through the
(U.K.) Social Credit Co-ordinating Centre, plus the Christian Book Club of
U.S.A., and later a book publisher in Western Australia. It was
described as a thoroughly researched study for posterity of the detailed
financial history of the use by the States of Guernsey of interest free credit
they created on behalf of their community. I have never ever seen or
heard of anyone challenging any detail of its accuracy.... From a virtually
bankrupt island state, they changed to such a prosperous little haven
that they became the envy of the English mainland. (My latest copy of
Grubiaks' book is out on loan, so I cannot give its publication
details.)
However, to support the denigration by Ryan that Guernsey is
mythology, he slams it with the non sequitur stick, of its currents
situation. No one has ever claimed that the use by
Guernsey of rebuilding its markets and amenities with interest free money
would become a permanent feature of its administration; but on the
contrary. The book detailed how the English banks tried to get the
Island States prohibited from their currency issues, but because of the
prosperity so widely applauded, the English Government refused to
co-operate. But the banks didn't give up, and offered particularly
favourable borrowing terms to the islanders. The authors finally predicted
that a combination of time, fading memories, and continuing
pressure from the banks to stop being different from the mainland, could
see Guernsey again moving back into the clutches of the debt merchants (inter
alia).
Ryan
is just confirming the Grubiaks' predictions. From 1935 to 1950
the N.Z. Government
used
its Reserve Bank credit at computed "cost" of 1%, to backstop (ie:
underwrite the shortfalls) in the building of hydro
schemes, railways, state houses, etc, and so despite the economic
benefits of that, the international banks maintained continuous pressure
against it to the 2 main political parties, and eventually got the practice
stopped. At the same time we had a network of community banks
covering the whole country providing very competitive loans for home builders,
and grants to their communities. So in the Al
Capone philosophy , their
Boards of Directors were made cash offers that were "too good to
be refused" , and in one fell swoop the 20 or so community banks sold
out to Westpac of Australia, except for the massive Auckland one
which was taken over by the HKSB; just leaving one in New Plymouth and
the Southland Savings Bank based in Invercargill. (Neither
are commercially big, or a threat.)
Should we now expect Ryan to say that because the government here does
not now use any Reserve Bank credit to support its policies, its boom
years were also just mythology ?
Let's try learning from history instead of rewriting
it........
Don B.
++++++++++++++++++
I have several times in different places expressed my despair at the
looseness of so many Socred writers in not "referencing" their quotes
precisely. By contrast, the communists have always done this superbly,
even if their references may often have been to lies told by other
communists. S now we are faced with a situation with reference to Guernsey
where one side says it's a myth and the other claims it is well documented
but doesn't produce the documentation. (Sorry, Don., it's not
you, it's the original literature.)
So we are reduced to the situation where the "myth" exists as a
hypothesis to be disproved.
I would therefore like our Moderator to produce his proof:
1. That the construction of the Guernsey marketplace was not financed
debt-free by redeemable (bonds), and,
2. That it was financed either on loan or by finance provided by pirates
or whatever.
I'm not interested in a reference to a modern website. If you looked at
an (in)appropriate NZ Govt. one I am sure you would get the inference at
least that banks always lend savings.
John R.
Check out the latest video at Xtra Broadband
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