----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 1:25
PM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit]
Guernsey
Don Replies: Hi John, The book I
referred to is "The Guernsey Experiment" by O. & J. Grubiak, which
I first met about 50 years ago, as available for decades through
the (U.K.) Social Credit Co-ordinating Centre, plus the Christian Book
Club of U.S.A., and later a book publisher in Western Australia. It
was described as a thoroughly researched study for posterity of the detailed
financial history of the use by the States of Guernsey of interest free
credit they created on behalf of their community. I have never ever
seen or heard of anyone challenging any detail of its accuracy.... From a
virtually bankrupt island state, they changed to such a prosperous
little haven that they became the envy of the English mainland. (My
latest copy of Grubiaks' book is out on loan, so I cannot give its
publication details.)
However, to support the denigration by Ryan that Guernsey is
mythology, he slams it with the non sequitur stick, of its currents
situation. No one has ever claimed that the use by
Guernsey of rebuilding its markets and amenities with interest free money
would become a permanent feature of its administration; but on
the contrary. The book detailed how the English banks tried to get the
Island States prohibited from their currency issues, but because of
the
prosperity so widely applauded, the English Government refused to
co-operate. But the banks didn't give up, and offered particularly
favourable borrowing terms to the islanders. The authors finally predicted
that a combination of time, fading memories, and continuing
pressure from the banks to stop being different from the mainland,
could see Guernsey again moving back into the clutches of the debt merchants
(inter alia).
Ryan is just confirming the Grubiaks' predictions. From
1935 to 1950 the N.Z. Government
used its Reserve Bank credit at computed "cost" of 1%, to backstop
(ie: underwrite the shortfalls) in the building of hydro
schemes, railways, state houses, etc, and so despite the
economic benefits of that, the international banks maintained continuous
pressure against it to the 2 main political parties, and eventually
got the practice stopped. At the same time we had a network
of community banks covering the whole country providing very competitive
loans for home builders, and grants to their communities. So in
the Al Capone philosophy ,
their
Boards of Directors were made cash offers that were "too good
to be refused" , and in one fell swoop the 20 or so community banks
sold out to Westpac of Australia, except for the massive Auckland
one which was taken over by the HKSB; just leaving one in New
Plymouth and the Southland Savings Bank based in Invercargill.
(Neither are commercially big, or a threat.)
Should we now expect Ryan to say that because the government here
does not now use any Reserve Bank credit to support its policies, its
boom years were also just mythology ?
Let's try learning from history instead of rewriting
it........
Don B.
++++++++++++++++++
I have several times in different places expressed my despair at the
looseness of so many Socred writers in not "referencing" their quotes
precisely. By contrast, the communists have always done this
superbly, even if their references may often have been to lies told by
other communists. S now we are faced with a situation with reference to
Guernsey where one side says it's a myth and the other claims it is well
documented but doesn't produce the documentation. (Sorry,
Don., it's not you, it's the original literature.)
So we are reduced to the situation where the "myth" exists as a
hypothesis to be disproved.
I would therefore like our Moderator to produce his proof:
1. That the construction of the Guernsey marketplace was not financed
debt-free by redeemable (bonds), and,
2. That it was financed either on loan or by finance provided by
pirates or whatever.
I'm not interested in a reference to a modern website. If you looked at
an (in)appropriate NZ Govt. one I am sure you would get the inference at
least that banks always lend savings.
John R.
Check out the latest video at Xtra Broadband
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