| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Guernsey | | Date: | Wednesday, April 27, 2005 22:31:37 (-0700) | | From: | William B. Ryan <w_b_ryan @.....com>
|
| In reply to: | Message 1103 (written by Joe Thomson) |
In C M Hattersley's book, "Wealth, Want and War", the
Guernsey note issue is covered in Appendix F. As a
preface to that CMH notes:-
"The following is re-printed from the issue of
'Prosperity' for April 1933, and thanks are due the
Editor and Publisher of that paper for their ready
permission. The Article was contributed by Mr. John
Le Marquand, former Constable of St. Lawrence, who
secured his information from a lecture delivered some
years ago by another Mr. Le Marquand, Supervisor to
the States of Guernsey."
---------------------------------
----------------------------------
So Hattersley simply "reprinted" an article from
"Prosperity" by a "Mr. John Le Marquand," whose
claimed source, according to Hattersley, was a
"lecture" that Marquand had heard "some years"
earlier from the "Supervisor to the States of
Guernsey" who was also named "Le Marquand," no first
name given. I would ask, in checking the facts, if
there ever was such a position as "Supervisor to the
States of Guernsey"? If so, what did that position
entail? And did a Mr. Le Marquand ever hold that
position? And when? And so on. But the Grubiaks in
their book did not mention Le Marquand, only
Hattersley. Which speaks to the credibility of the
"documentation" upon which they weave THEIR version
of the story.
I believe these stories can be traced back no earlier
than the second half of the nineteenth century; that
they have their origination in greenbacker
fabrications of that era in the United States. Their
source is the same source for the spurious Franklin,
Jefferson and Lincoln "quotes" being bandied about.
They take the names of historical persons, then craft
a story around them fitting the greenbacker ideology.
First it was a "debt free" story, more lately it has
become an "interest free" story.
Whatever, it is quite incompatible with Douglas
Social Credit.
-
--- Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Hi Bill,
>
> In C M Hattersley's book, "Wealth, Want and War",
> the Guernsey note issue is
> covered in Appendix F. As a preface to that CMH
> notes "The following is
> re-printed from the issue of "Prosperity" for April
> 1933, and thanks are due
> the Editor and Publisher of that paper for their
> ready permission. The
> Article was contributed by Mr. John Le Marquand,
> former Constable of St.
> Lawrence, who secured his information from a lecture
> delivered some years
> ago by another Mr. Le Marquand, Supervisor to the
> States of Guernsey."
>
> I have tried to scan in the whole article itself for
> you, but I'm afraid it
> wouldn't work with what we have here. Hopefully
> someone else may have
> better luck, and you can receive the whole thing. A
> couple of sections are
> quite interesting, and I've typed them out below.
>
> "In 1827 the Old Bank was founded, followed by the
> Commercial Bank in 1830,
> and both Banks circulated their own notes, and the
> Island appears to have
> been flooded with paper money, so much so that in
> September , 1836, the
> matter was submitted to the consideration of the
> States, and again the
> Bailiff -Daniel de Lisle Brock - makes a strong
> appeal to the States in
> favour of the right of the States to issue notes
> being supreme to that of
> the Banks and to defend the rights and interests of
> the States and the
> community, so that circulation of States notes
> should not be prejudiced."
>
> "From the report of the debate one would have
> imagined that the result would
> have been that the private issue of the Banks would
> have been withdrawn but
> the truth was stranger than fiction, for the result
> was an agreement between
> the States and the Banks that the former should
> withdraw 15,000 pounds worth
> of their notes, and that in future their issue
> should not exceed 40,000
> pounds. This agreement remained in force up to the
> outbreak of war in 1914,
> when the States notes in circulation valued 41,206
> pounds."
>
> It does not say why this decision was made, but the
> States notes had been
> previously redeemable in 10 years out of "Impot
> duties and the revenue from
> butcher's shops". The 'impot duties' were on liquor.
>
> A later section states:-
>
> "Immediately following the outbreak of war, the
> demand for money was such
> that the Royal Court passed an Ordinance making
> States notes and those of
> the Banks legal tender, and limiting the issues of
> the Banks to that at the
> moment in circulation, the result being that the
> States then got their own
> back on the Banks, as their issue was unlimited, and
> the demand was so great
> that notes had to be printed in Guernsey to keep
> things going....... the
> note issue of the states rose to 142,000 pounds at
> 31st December 1918.
>
> The article concludes:-
>
> "The amalgamantion of the Local Banks with English
> banking concerns resulted
> in cessation of the private note issues of the
> Banks, and we are indebted to
> the co-operation of the Guernsey branches of the
> English Banks in issuing
> local notes unless Treasury notes are specifically
> asked for. The States
> note issue today fluctuates between 150,000 pounds
> and 200,000 pounds and is
> undoubtedly a great benefit to the Island. A loan
> of 175,000 pounds at 5
> per cent redeemable in 30 years, would cost the
> States annually 11,383
> pounds in interest and redemption. Our note issue
> for approximately the
> same sum costs us 450 pounds per annum; so that it
> is up to every patriotic
> Guernseyman to use States notes in his local
> transactions and by so doing
> keep down the taxation which bears on each and every
> one of us."
>
> Hope that is of some assistance, though it would
> undoubtedly be better if
> you could access the whole article.
>
> Regards, Joe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William B. Ryan" <w_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:04 AM
> Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Guernsey
>
>
> > I have recently acquired a copy of the Grubiak
> book
> > through the good graces of Wally Klinck. It is
> > typical of the propaganda (the big lie) genre in
> > having no footnotes or references that can be
> > verified independently through comparison against
> > original sources. The appeal is strictly to
> emotion
> > and prejudice. But at the front is this:
> >
> > "ACKNOWLEDGMENTS: Our most profound gratitude is
> due
> > to M. Guillemette, States Supervisor of Guernsey,
> who
> > supplied all the information we requested, and
> > responded to our tiresome importunities with
> > unfailing kindness and helpfulness. Our thanks are
> > also due to Mr. Galt, General Manager of Glasgow
> > Corporation Markets, for the information
> (necessarily
> > limited by the complicated nature of the records
> > involved) which he kindly supplied. We are
> indebted
> > for the historical material dealing with Guernsey
> up
> > to 1937, to C. Marshall Hattersley's book,
> 'Wealth,
> > Want and War.' Last, but not least, we must thank
> the
> > generous sponsors who made this book financially
> > possible."
> >
> > There are no original sources referenced here, you
> > might note. The earliest dated material is C.
> > Mashall Hattersley's book, apparently published in
> > 1937. I don't have that book, nor is it available
> > locally--so I've reached for the moment a dead end
> in
> > tracing the provenance of the story.
> >
> > (While we're on this subject, perhaps someone will
> > send me a copy of C. Marshall's book. And perhaps
> > Martin Hattersley, a subscriber to this list, will
> > inform us as to the disposition of his father's
> many
> > copyrights. They represent an important part of
> the
> > corpus of historic Social Credit literature that
> > should be preserved.)
> >
> > There is, however, the last appendix to the
> Grubiak
> > book, purporting to be the reprint of a document.
> It
> > is headed: "Historic Reply of the STATES of
> GUERNSEY
> > to the Privy Council, justifying the Guernsey
> > Experiment. Here published, for the first time in
> > full, since 1829."
> >
> > But when you actually do read the document in the
> > appendix, as I have, you'll find nothing whatever
> > about any "experiment." What you will find is
> merely
> > justification by Guernsey to the Privy Council for
> > going into debt, and their plan for amortization.
> In
> > the excerpt below, the famous "market" of the
> story
> > is specifically mentioned, but the only word
> > associated with it is "debt," not a word about
> > printing and spending "money" into circulation
> "debt-
> > free" to pay for it:-
> >
> > "THE words of the second Order in Council have
> > already been cited. The right of levying the duty
> on
> > spirituous liquors is granted for ten years; a
> > condition is annexed purporting that the States
> shall
> > not exceed their annual income, and on the
> contrary,
> > that out of the produce of the duty, one thousand
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
|
Re: [socialcredit]
Reply to this message