----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 1:27 AM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit]
Guernsey
Dear
Henry& Kindred Spirits,
Congratulations on your initiative in ordering some copies for Godzone
of "The Policy of a Philosophy". That angle was one which hooked me into
S.C. in "The Elements of Social Credit" textbook, with almost half of the
total book dissecting, promoting and applying the scientic (engineering)
philosophies without a single mention of money, till later chapters.
Please send me a copy of your import as soon as it is available, and
include on its C.O.D.
Invoice a copy of the newly acquired book by Louis Even , which
Mrs Sandford had on show (presumably from you) at our April
S.C.Institute Meeting at her home. Member John Gibson
asked me to get a copy for him when next in touch with you. I'll deliver
it to him . Send them to me please, preferably to P.O.
Box 910, Hamilton.(Age of Plenty?)
Your
initiative in communicating directly with an Officer in the States of
Guernsey asking for details on the use of interest free
credit seems fine, but don't hold your breath on getting something interesting
or helpful. The chances are it will be similar to what you would get
from the N.Z. Minister of Finance if you currently wrote him for
details of what extent the Labour Government in N.Z. made of the
credit creating capacity of the N.Z. Reserve Bank. Firstly, Electronz
actually has a copy of a letter from him which asserts that
banks only lend deposits - which we both know is absolute rubbish, but
it makes him
look
good to the banking spin doctors. Secondly, if pressed, Dr. Cullen will
assert that while a previous Labour Government may have recklessly
played around with credit creation, it now only uses "responsible"
policies which are internationally acceptable....
But
again, you and I know that the greatest boom in N.Z.'s living standards was
associated with the extensive use of Reserve Bank credit by the first
Labour Government. From a different and probably more
logical viewpoint, among the 36 emails in my box this week
referring to the Guernsey Experiment, virtually all relate to one or more
of 6 writers or politicians who contend and apparently
believe that locally created notes/ credit/bonds/ debt, or whatever
nomenclature is chosen, to finance the physical infrastructure of the
place, converting it from virtual bankruptcy into a thriving community.
On the other hand we have one only verbose correspondent who rails
against the absence of sources and references, and then immediately in
his own arrogant way, and with a total absence
of
credible support or references, damns them
as "mythology" from the pro Lincoln group thousands
of miles across the Atlantic.
If
this group list is prepared to take seriously one person's
baseless criticism of both Social Credit and monetary reform,
and completely disregard the scores of pages of material , in this
instance, written about the Guernsey Experiment, by a number of different
writers and community minded people, then the likelihood of this list
serving any useful purpose is zilch. It's also just been drawn to
my attention that the textbook by R. Rands,
"The
Problem of Money" as reprinted several times in other countries, also contains
a 1.5
page
summary of that experiment, which matches all the main points already
covered.
But
in case anyone wants to hit me again with a non sequitur stick by saying that
Guernsey was not Social Credit, let me get in first, and emphasize that what
was done in Guernsey, and Worgyl, and lots of other places detailed in "Money
the Decisive Factor" by a couple of highly respected U.K. monetary
researchers, was a demonstration that idle
resources could be mobilized to produce community assets by the proper
use of community credit, without having to borrow it at interest from
the banks. By coincidence if you like, this is entirely consistent with the
Douglas philosophy of managing the "Ticket System" of money as a
mechanism, to achieve specific and desirable results.
Hello Wally & John,
John W Hughes new book "Major Douglas" "The Policy of a
Philosophy" I have taken the risk of buying a few for the New Zealand
market and it sells at $49.95 plus packing and postage.$55.00
posted.
Henry Raynel.
John,
I agree that although it may not be the only
criterion relating to the worth of an idea or statement, referencing
should be complete and precise insofar as possible. I believe that
in this respect you would be relatively pleased with the Canadian edition
of British author John W. Hughes recent 300-page book, "Major
Douglas: The Policy of a Philosophy:" (Edmonton: Brightest
Pebble Publishing, 2004) Refer: herb@brightest-pebble.com
. The book is a very attractive, professionally produced and bound
paperback which retails at about $34.95 Cdn. (I would expect that it
is, or will be, available from the Australian League of Rights for those
who might prefer to order "down under.") The printer-publisher has a
long history of producing both popular and academic works.
As to Guernsey, I have sent a direct request
to the Guernsey Government office enquiries@tax.gov.gg, worded as
below (No reply, for what it may be worth, has been received in
the short time since this enquiry was sent.):
Dear Sir/Madam,
Inasmuch as there is a considerable
discussion and debate on the Internet regarding the so-called "Guernsey
Experiment", popularized by Olive and Jan Gruibiak in their book
entitled "The Guernsey Experiment", with which I am sure you are familiar,
I would like to enquire as to whether or not the story given in the
Grubiaks' book is essentially a correct account of the financial policy of
Guernsey dating back to the early 1800's? That is to say, did the
States Council, facing a need for considerable physical improvements to
the Island and a heavy debt with onerous interest charges making further
borrowing and taxation virtually impossible, implement a policy of
States Notes creation issued without debt or attached interest
charges in order to finance great improvements to the infrastucture
of the Island? Were Notes issued judiciously in this manner and
retired, as I understand the matter, with equal care by the means of
import duties as these public assets depreciated--the end results
being an abundance of amenities, very low taxation, no public debt and a
lower price-level than that on the British mainland?
Any information which you could provide which
might either confirm or refute the above account would be greatly
appreciated inasmuch as this aspect of Guernsey's historical
public financial policy has become widely promulgated, discussed
and debated on the Internet--and setting the record straight would, I
think, provide a valuable public service.
Yours very sincerely
Wallace M. Klinck
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 3:53
PM
Subject: [socialcredit]
Guernsey
I have several times in different places expressed my despair at the
looseness of so many Socred writers in not "referencing" their quotes
precisely. By contrast, the communists have always done this
superbly, even if their references may often have been to lies told by
other communists. S now we are faced with a situation with reference to
Guernsey where one side says it's a myth and the other claims it is well
documented but doesn't produce the documentation. (Sorry,
Don., it's not you, it's the original literature.)
So we are reduced to the situation where the "myth" exists as a
hypothesis to be disproved.
I would therefore like our Moderator to produce his proof:
1. That the construction of the Guernsey marketplace was not financed
debt-free by redeemable (bonds), and,
2. That it was financed either on loan or by finance provided by
pirates or whatever.
I'm not interested in a reference to a modern website. If you looked
at an (in)appropriate NZ Govt. one I am sure you would get the inference
at least that banks always lend savings.
John R.
Check out the latest video at Xtra
Broadband
---------------------------------------------------------------------
You're subscribed to this list with the email wmklinck@shaw.ca
To unsubscribe, send a message to
socialcredit-unsubscribe@elistas.com
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
---------------------------------------------------------------------
You're subscribed to this list with the email henry.raynel@actrix.gen.nz
To unsubscribe, send a message to
socialcredit-unsubscribe@elistas.com
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
---------------------------------------------------------------------
You're subscribed to this list with the email donzbeth@ihug.co.nz
To unsubscribe, send a message to
socialcredit-unsubscribe@elistas.com
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
---------------------------------------------------------------------
You're subscribed to this list with the email jschroeder@shaw.ca
To unsubscribe, send a message to
socialcredit-unsubscribe@elistas.com
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
Re: [socialcredit]
Reply to this message
