| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] CFEPS -- Write off loans? | | Date: | Monday, September 6, 2004 09:55:28 (+0200) | | From: | Jessop Sutton <sutton @...........za>
|
Thanks, Joe.
I was using 'shorthand' here, Joe; what I meant was that the whole process is
done 'by the citizens, for the citizens' through whatever devices they have
set up, the administration of which we usually leave to representative
citizens to (hopefully) do for us.
Jessop.
=========================
On Thursday 02 Sep 2004 5:19 pm, Joe Thomson wrote:
> Hello Jessop, Bill and others.
>
> I don't believe Social Credit seeks to ''set-aside conventional
> double-entry accounting", Jessop. Rather we would add something to it that
> is currently missing. A "National Capital Account". One that would be
> written-up and written-down in relation to the actual reality of what was
> going on overall in the economy. We're taking what's already in existence
> in private businesses accountancy one necessary step further in computing
> the national accounts.
>
> As I understand it, and I hope Bill, or anyone else with a greater
> knowledge of this than I have will elaborate and/or correct me if I'm
> wrong, this is a ompletely 'automatic' process. And our 'elected
> representatives' would have nothing to do with it, other than to provide
> general oversight and making any necessary changes to protect the public's
> interest.
> The amount dispensed in the form of a 'national dividend' or 'compensated
> price discount' would not be set by the politician, but by what was
> calculated as being necessary to allow the costs of production to be met by
> final consumers without ever increasingly incurring debt..
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Joe
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jessop Sutton" <sutton@kingsley.co.za>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 9:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] CFEPS -- Write off loans?
>
> > Thanks, Bill. This allows me the leeway I need. Though I can understand
>
> it, I
>
> > feel uneasy with the suggestion that, in thinking in terms of Social
>
> Credit,
>
> > one needs to set aside conventional double entry bookkeeping. If I can be
> > allowed to see the Reserve Bank (Central Bank) as integral with the
> > commercial banking sector, then it can be allowed to create a deposit for
>
> the
>
> > Treasury to draw on and it can, with equal facility, write the amount off
> > when authorised to do so by the 'owners' of the debt, namely the citizens
> > through the agency of the elected representatives.
> >
> > I think this of mine should be the answer to Joe's e-mail as well.
> >
> > Jessop.
> > --------------------------
> >
> > On Tuesday 31 Aug 2004 5:04 pm, william_b_ryan@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > The point is that if A+B is valid, debt accruing to
> > > the banks will never amortize ("self liquidate") but
> > > must inevitably compound.
> > > The compounding element of the debt can be shifted
> > > about like in a game of musical chairs. The
> > > municipalities could of course increase the rate of
> > > taxation in the attempt to amortize their debt--which
> > > would have the effect of shifting the debt to final
> > > consumers. Or, the federal government could directly
> > > assume the debt, or increase its deficit spending,
> > > which would tend to offset the public's or the
> > > municipalities' debt.
> > > But increasing spending by the municipalities or the
> > > federal government is the very antithesis of limited
> > > government in a market economy. So the economy
> > > becomes increasingly "socialist" regardless whether
> > > "governed" by the "right" or the "left."
> > > But the banks could in principle "write off" the
> > > compounding element of the debt, which is what Social
> > > Credit proposes through the mechanisms of the
> > > consumers' dividend and retail discount.
> > >
> > >
> > > Jessop Sutton <sutton@kingsley.co.za> wrote:Joe
> > > Thanks. I may come back further on this subject, but first I am
>
> interested
>
> > > in knowing Bill's view on this as well. He holds it out as one of the
> > > alternatives. Bill wrote: " . . . . .or having that debt assumed by the
> > > federal government or written off".
> > >
> > > Could you explain further, Bill?
> > >
> > > Jessop.
> > > ====================
> > >
> > > On Friday 27 Aug 2004 5:17 pm, Joe Thomson wrote:
> > > > Does not the issuance of money as a 'loan' as per Q 10 and 11, even
>
> one
>
> > > > that will be 'written-off', imply that the lender still has a
>
> 'control'
>
> > > > over the borrower? That the 'writing-off' of these 'loans' is
>
> technically
>
> > > > still at the option of the RBof SA? Why does the Reserve Bank of SA
>
> have
>
> > > > to 'lend' the Government of SA the amount of the dividend and
> > > > discount payouts? Would it not be more appropriate to view these as
> > > > 'adjusting entries' in the nation's accounts? Ones necessary to make
> > > > the 'balance sheet' of 'South Africa, Inc.' properly balance.?
> > > >
> > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Jessop Sutton"
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:18 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] CFEPS -- Write off loans?
> > > >
> > > > > On Wednesday 25 Aug 2004 6:23 pm, william_b_ryan@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > > > More germane is that the
> > > > > > legislation requires the full repayment of principal
> > > > > > by the municipalities, which is not possible assuming
> > > > > > the validity of A+B. They could do so only through
> > > > > > piling on debt through further loans, or having that
> > > > > > debt assumed by the federal government or written
> > > > > > off.
> > > > >
> > > > > ================================
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
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