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Re: Interest Confu william_
Re: [socialcredit] Jessop S
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Reply to Prof. Gun william_
Zlace M. Klinck" < Wallace
Re: [socialcredit] william_
Reply to Prof. Gun william_
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
The Bottom line of Jessop S
air and land? william_
The A+B theorem is Per Almg
Re: The A+B theor william_
Re: [socialcredit] martinh
Re: [socialcredit] Jessop S
Re: [socialcredit] Per Almg
Re: [socialcredit] Per Almg
Re: [socialcredit] martinh
the servile state william_
Re: [socialcredit] Per Almg
Censorship Test Daniel M
Per: regarding do william_
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Documents showing Per Almg
diagram n:o 2 Per Almg
Response to Martin John Her
part 3, text about Per Almg
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in reply william_
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Re: [socialcredit] Per Almg
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Fw: GOP Fascism's wesburt
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erratum william_
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in further reply t william_
The Elements of So william_
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Calculations about Per Almg
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Subject:[socialcredit] The A+B theorem is false
Date:Sunday, September 12, 2004  09:17:10 (+0200)
From:Per Almgren <info @........se>

My name is Per Almgren and I have among other things worked with the establishing of interest-free savings-loans in Sweden since 1966. There now is a cooperative bank (JAK) here, owned by 26,000 members using this principle and also some other organisations using similar principles. For the time being I am also taking part in the development of a project named “Basic Income and Public Sector Expenses Completely Financed by Taxation on Liquid Funds”. Because of this one of my friends sent me the following text (I have translated part of it from Swedish into English, my comments are in blue):
 
“For all of you that haven’t joined the Social-Credit-thread, which probably are the majority, I will tell you something about the A+B theorem. The idea is as follows:
Businesses have different types of costs. One is payments to individuals (i.e. wages, salaries, dividends). This part we call A. Another part is interest, amortizations, payments for raw material and goods and services from subcontractors. This part we call B. A business must charge A+B for what it sells, but only A generates purchasing power.
This is not true. The money business X pays to businesses Y, Z … generates purchasing power to these businesses.
Where does the rest of the money come from? From Bank credits of course, i.e. debt growing is built into the economic system.
It is correct that debt creating is built into the system but this is due to the fact that interest incomes and dividends are only partially used for purchasing goods and services. The other part of these incomes which are “invested”, together with the part of incomes from work that are used in the same way, is the source of the necessity to borrow from the “investors” or savers.
Without them a growing unbalance is created between the prices on goods and services on one side and purchasing power on the other side. So runs the economy of today, but it isn’t necessary so it has to run.
 
Major Douglas expressed it the following way:
 
"A factory or other productive organisation has, besides its economic function as a producer of goods, a financial aspect - it may be regarded on the one hand as a device for the distribution of purchasing power to individuals, through the media of wages, salaries and dividends; and on the other hand as a manufactury of prices and financial values. From this standpoint its payments may be divided into two groups:
 
A. All payments made to individuals (wage, salaries and dividends)
B. All payments made to other organisations (raw material, plant, repayment of bank loans and other non-personal costs)"
 
An argument against the A+B theorem is that B transforms into A.
This counterargument is quite correct.
 
In the words of Major Douglas:
 
"Cost is the accumulation of past spendings over an indefinite period, whereas cash price requires a purchasing power effective at the moment of purchase"
 
What is wrong with this description is that every business in the producing chain that receives B money will use part of this money to pay its employees wages and salaries and its owners dividends and sometimes interest. This means that the total sum of B payments will transform completely into A payments and contribute to the consumers total purchasing power. So the consumers do actually have the possibility to buy everything produced without any growing debt. But since some of them prefer to lend their money in order to get interest or invest them in order to earn dividends, they force other to borrow or to be unemployed.
Major Douglas has unfortunately not got this correct, at least not according to your summary.
 
According to the author there is not only the interest on money that causes the problem, even if it is a part of it.
There the author (Major Douglas ?) is substantially wrong.
 
"Primarily Social Credit is concerned that sufficient purchasing-power is in the hands of consumers to claim all goods and services flowing from the economy in each production cycle--and to liquidate all the financial costs of production in that same cycle.  This takes into account the total flow of costs generated and incomes distributed in each cycle of production.  Interest is considered to be of significance only inasmuch as it is ONE of the costs of production--one of the "B" costs (i.e., payments of a firm to other organizations) of industry.  "A" payments are incomes paid to individuals within the firm, i.e., wage, salaries, dividends, etc.  Like profits, interest can be made a distributed cost. 
 
Social Credit does not regard exploitative aspects of interest as the central economic problem but rather a result of a much more fundamental cause.  To regard it as central would be to beat the bushes while ignoring the root of the problem, i.e., the charging of the consumer with capital depreciation while failing to credit the consumer with capital appreciation.
This is wrong, se my arguments above. Interest income and dividends that not are used completely for purchasing goods and services is the fundamental problem.
 
Consumer prices cancel credit prematurely inasmuch that they call in credit in respect of capital far before capital has been physically depreciated or consumed.  Social Credit policy is to provide the individual citizen with an increasing beneficial (not administrative) share in the communal capital.
 
This is to be done with an injection of consumption credits (the Consumer Dividend and Price Compensation to retailers)  in order to provide the means of access to total production (the cost of capital is included in consumer prices) and the means to liquidate the entire financial costs of each production cycle.  The deficiency of purchasing power grows exponentially because of the increase of  B costs due to the increase of capital as a factor of production relative to labour--and this would occur quite independently of the practice of charging interest. 
This is a false description since all B costs will transform into A costs through the chain of retailer, wholesaler, manufacturer, subcontractor, subcontractors subcontactor and so on. All of them are using part of their B income to pay A costs.
 
We have here been discussing costs and incomes in industry.  If, because of sufficiency of income, the consumer has no need to contract debt--obviously the whole question of interest on consumer debt is effectively eliminated.  According to Social Credit policy credit must always be available for any desired and physically possible project and the consumer must always be able to liquidate all costs of production generated within the same cycle. 
 
All production loans would be credited to a National Credit Account which would form a fund from which money could be drawn for the Dividend and Price Compensation--which together comprise what Douglas called the Just Price. The Just Price is determined by multiplying the Financial Price (as presently calculated) by the ratio of national consumption to national
production--a ratio which always under normal circumstances tends toward less and less than a value of one.  The true (physical cost of production) normally falls and so should the financial price.  The present bias toward rising prices should be reversed.  Inflation is a violation of the natural law of cost."
If we eliminate the interest and other types of owner’s income (i.e. dividends etc.) the cost of production will successively fall down to the total costs for work. If we keep the principle of interest the prices will increase proportionally to the re-lended part of the interest costs, adjusted for more effective production means and increase of the amount of goods and services sold.
 
This growth is of course not sustainable since we are now approaching biological, physical and time limits that we are not able to move. Still keeping the interest principle will turn the money economy into a depression with growing unemployment.
 
Per Almgren, MSc





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