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Dear Daniel
I will try to find the reference to public holidays in the Uk prior to the
Industrial Revolution. They were all based on the church's calender
and comprised the important "Feast Days where the lives and works of the
Christian Saints were celebrated. This is where the word "holiday" originates.
It is a venacular contraction of "Holy Day". The early industrialists objected
to their production lines being interrupted by these 'Feast Days" and contrived
to have them reduced to 4 which were Chistmas Day, Boxing Day ( The Feast of
Steven), Easter Monday, and Whitsuntide Monday. In Scotland and Ireland New
Years Day(Hogmany) was substituted for Whit Monday.
Personally I cannot claim such a distinguished ancestry as yourself. However I
am a follower of Christ and a Methodist Local Preacher. Retired now I have had a
varied career as a research scientist, army officer, secondary school teacher
and Tertiary lecturer. My qualifications range widely from degrees in Science
and History to certificates to operate steam locomotives. Like you I came from a
family that was poor, and have always believed that any system of government
that deliberately creates poverty among its people is morally as well as
fiscally bankrupt. Due to circumstances that have arisen over the last 10 years
my financial situation has become rather awkward, but even so when I see the
abject poverty in certain parts of the world and even my own country I
believe I am wealthy by world standards. I am able to have choices and not be
controlled by others.
Incidently I have to
take up the trade union comment. In the early Industrial Revolution productivity
increased by factors as much as 100 fold, but in doing so they replaced many
cottage industries that employed thousands of people. These were mainly
textile workers ( hand weavers and spinners) who used the textile trade to
supplement their income and keep them above the subsistence line. The New
Industries took that trade away from them.These skilled workers were forced into
the towns to accept factory jobs that paid wages that barely met their
subsistance requirements. Even worse bacause of the "Poor Law"( a mediaeval law
designed in prevent beggary) Industrialists found they were able to pay less
than subsistance wages because their workers could apply for the "Poor Law" hand
outs to keep them alive. When the "Poor Law" was abolished many people starved
until the establishment of the "workhouse". Trade Unions by militant action
forced both the government and the employers to pay "living wages" to workers.
Politicians were notoriously absent from trying to ensure the new prosperity
from the increased productivity actually benefitted the workers as well as the
masters. This confirms your opinion about the uselessness of politicians, They
support their financial backers.They dont "serve the people". Increased
productivity alone does not ensure an improvement in living standards or a
reduction in poverty. Although I concede it is an essential part in ensuring
that it can take place.
I don't support Socialism
or Communism either, their views are simply another extreme master tarred with
the same brush as extreme right wingers. Extremes don't solve problems they only
create them.
I look forward to further
observations from you particularly with regard to how you think a reoganisation
of the finacial system along Socred lines will serve to ensure improvements in
the Human condition.
W.H.McGunnigle
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 4:15
AM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Solomon
Islands from Electronz - To William H. McGunnigle
Dear
William,
I
believe we have more similarity in our cultural background than
differences. I was raised in a Christian church and still have the
values for justice. One of the biggest injustice is poverty, mostly in
third world countries, but also in our own respective countries. By the
way, my father was minister of the church for 18 years and he did 3
missionary trips to Haiti, and a 2-month mission trip to Africa
(Congo, Côte d'Ivoire, Zaire). I know personally several individuals
from those countries, and refugees from other devastated countries. I
grew up in a family with very low income. We never lacked anything, but
we could not afford any luxury. Myself, I feel I have a life mission to
fight poverty. Being poor is not a solution to fight poverty and I plan
to be wealthy by working hard. The belief that wealth can only be gained
at the expense of the poor is simply wrong.
I am
surprised there were 56 days of public holiday per year prior the Industrial
Revolution. Do you really think the average UK resident had 56 days of
public holiday each year? The reason I am asking this question is
because we don't have as many public holidays in America and Europe at the
moment. Can you send me a link to a reference about this?
Having a forced holiday is not freedom at all. It is essentially
the same as restricting people from working more than 35 hours
per week. I doubt the quality of life prior the Industrial Revolution
was as good as our quality of life in year 2005.
[William H. McGunnigle]
Pressure from the Industrialists
reduced this to 4 days plus Sundays by the end of the 18th century. At the
same time wages were progressively reduced so that it became necessary for men
and women to work up to 14 hours per day to simply earn enough to feed and
clothe themselves. "Freedom" to act independantly was
drastically curbed.
Using the word "pressure from the Industrialists" means less
freedom. I am in favor of more freedom. If there
was pressure from the Industrialists, then there was a law or regulation
restricting the freedom citizens. As a result, many of them were forced
into "slavery" to work for those industrialists. If the citizens were
free, they could continue living under the 56 days of public holiday per year
and ignore those Industrialists.
It
appear you give credit to Trade Unions for lifting people out of
poverty. What increased the wages was
productivity. Wages has been rising for hundred of
years because of incredible increases in
productivity.
[William H. McGunnigle]
I appreciate
your comment about giving liberty to the Serf. It is very sound,
but this only works if the serf is sufficiently free of external obligations
(debt etc) to be able to think beyond where his or her next meal is coming
from.
This is true. You find better paid employees in countries
where there are lots of entrepreneurs, therefore lots of industries and
jobs. As labor becomes a scarce resource, entrepreneurs have to bid more
and more to hire and/or keep an employee. This is the case of America
and Canada. Those American and Canadian employees would be better paid
if there were more entrepreneurs. The more entrepreneurs, the better for
everyone, particularly for the poorest in the country. The solution to
slavery in poor countries is to nurture a favorable climate for job
creation, meaning fewer regulations, so the average citizen can become an
entrepreneur if desired. You will find "slaves" in countries where there
are very few jobs available. For instance, in Haiti, the official
unemployment rate over 66% resulting in a low average salary of
about $1,500 USD per year. Since labor is abundant by having a lot of
unemployed, entrepreneurs don't have to pay much to hire an employee.
The other factor is productivity. An entrepreneur cannot pay an
employee higher than the value he/she is producing. For
instance, Haiti has a shortage of skilled labor and an abundant supply of
unskilled labor.
Sincerely,
--
Daniel Morin.
Dear Daniel
I now have a clearer picture about your vision for the future. Taking into
consideration our distinctly different cultural backgrounds, I believe we
are basically of the same mind. I do however question your inference that
there is considerably more 'freedom' in North America or indeed the western
democracies than elsewhere. The United Kingdom for instance prior to the
Industrial Revolution had a society that had considerable freedom
particularly with regard to public holidays and festivals some 56 days per
year plus Sundays. Pressure from the Industrialists reduced this to 4 days
plus Sundays by the end of the 18th century.
. At the same time wages were progressively
reduced so that it became necessary for men and women to work up to 14 hours
per day to simply earn enough to feed and clothe themselves. "Freedom" to act independantly was drastically curbed.
Admittedly the franchaise did not extend to
all these exploited people until 1930 (in the
UK), but the growth of the "Trade Union" movement played a significant part
in ensuring that earnings were restored to a level that exceeded
subsistence.
There appears to be a
significant trend in North America and Western Europe to restore conditions
leading to subsistence existence for many people.
I appreciate your
comment about giving liberty to the Serf. It is very sound, but
this only works if the serf is sufficiently free of external obligations
(debt etc) to be able to think beyond where his or her next meal is coming
from. I believe there is a strange corellation here. In drug addiction the
victim becomes focussed only and solely upon obtaining sufficient funding to
purchase their next "fix". To get that funding the mind is reduced to the
basic fundamentals and any thoughts beyond that drive are eliminated. In
many ways this parallels the worlds financial position. Multinationals
exploit areas of high population and unemployment to pay subsistence and
sometimes less than subsistence wages. People in that position have little
option to exercise freedom of choice i.e. Liberty. The Irony of all this is
that slaves with a averagely generous master were better off physically and
mentally than the average serf. They had leisure time and did not need
to worry about the necessities of life. Many were educated because it gave
the master a scribe or accountant without the need to pay him. They were
treated as valuable assetts. Serfs were not.
Your comments about
politicians are well made. A recent survey in New Zealand showed that people
had more trust in used-car salesmen than the average politician. I think
that says more about the value of politicians to our society than any other
comment.
Combatting corruption
is an on going problem, and will always exist while opportunities to exploite people remain.
W.H.McGunnigle
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 6:19
AM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Solomon
Islands from Electronz - To William H. McGunnigle
Dear William,
Thanks for your reply and comments.
[William
H. McGunnigle] If you have been following the discourse between
Wallace and myself you should have realised that we are convinced that
this is not a natural state for the human race, but an imposed
conditioning created by secular rulers and religious organisations as a
method of controlling the human race.
I truly believe there are two classes of human beings: individuals
who want to control others and individuals having no interest
controlling other human beings. Instead of trying to focus on the
"natural state of the human race", I would focus on the "natural state of
a population in a given country". Countries with the most freedom
offers the highest work ethics to their citizens. You will find
fewer sweatshops in America and in Canada than you will find in third
world countries. Freedom brings prosperity to everyone, particularly
to the poorest in the country. The poorest in America (USA) and
Canada are "suffering" obesity; while in the third world they starve to
death.
The people wishing to rule the world are using the money supply to
control, buy and bribe individuals and businesses. Having the power
to print money is the most powerful method to control a population.
Do you wish this power to lay in the hands of a few individuals?
Power
corrupts, and absolute power corrupts
absolutely.
[William H. McGunnigle]
In particular the development of a corrupt and evil monetary
system has been responsible for distorting the human psyche and reducing
much of the human race to serfdom.
You are entirely right on this. I am 100% in favor of a sound
monetary system. The question is "what is a sound monetary
system?" I am sure we both agree that bad monetary
system is the primary source of corruption, favoring one class
of individuals at the expense of others. Giving unrestricted power
to a class of individuals is a great danger for them to become tyrants and
enslave others.
If someone wants to make a difference in morality of the developing
countries, he would do better to fight corruption in the public office, in
government rules that cannot be enforced fairly and uniformly, and in the
pathetically inefficient judiciary. Freedom is the only long-run means to
promote economic development, justice and human
rights.
[William H.
McGunnigle] The serf has to provide
services for his master but does not receive protection, food, clothing
and nurture in return. This is the ultimate goal of the "work ethic"
mentality.
What about giving liberty to the "serf" so he can
become the master of his own destiny? Regulations create
slaves, depriving citizens of their their liberty to conduct
business. Regulations create monopolies by making it expensive for
someone to afford the regulatory fees and/or pay the bribes to
run the business. It is
routine to pay high bribes in third world countries. For instance,
in Russia, the average bribe paid to corrupt bureaucrats is 13 times what
it was four years ago. While the number of bribes paid had decreased since
2001, the average sum paid was now £77,000, up from £5,800 four years ago
(source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1533722,00.html).
Only the wealthy can afford a bribe of £77,000 (135,000 USD). Since
the average citizen cannot afford the "right to be self-employed", he is
forced to slavery by working for big corporations. If you
want to know more, you are welcome to read http://www.fee.org/~web/0105iolpdf/fromprez.pdf
When you have accepted being corrupt (as socialism asks for —
forcibly take away from someone to give to someone else), you can very
easily transfer that logic to apply to your family and then to yourself.
The character issue is the area where the worst of socialism lies. It has
impoverished the souls. Such an
ideology is the worse danger for the
human race.
[William H. McGunnigle]
This age is failing to develope to human
being both mentally and spiritually because it is still wedded to outdated
concepts.
The outdated concept is that politicians can solve problems.
We have been brainwashed by our government-funded education system
that politicians are the solution to every problem, while in fact they
have been the cause of all our problems. Freedom is what grows a man
to become responsible of his actions, and to develop him mentally and
spiritually. The use of force and violation of human rights does
lead to higher morality nor nurture spirituality.
[William H. McGunnigle]
We will make no progress as a species
while the present attitude persists.
This is true. The old attitude embracing the idea of having
one group of individuals allowed to control the human race is a real
danger to mankind. Usually, this ideology is hidden under a democracy
or a clever control of the money supply by the elite.
To make progress, we must have liberty, not
tyrany.
Sincerely,
-- Dan Morin.
Reply to Daniel Morin
Although your arguments appear solid they assume that the "WORK ETHIC"
is a natural and logical part of human existence. If you have been
following the discourse between Wallace and myself you should have
realised that we are convinced that this is not a natural state for the
human race, but an imposed conditioning created by secular rulers and
religious organisations as a method of controlling the human race. In
particular the development of a corrupt and evil monetary system has
been responsible for distorting the human psyche and reducing much of
the human race to serfdom. I emphasise serfdom, because unlike slavery
where a master has a responsibility to protect, feed, clothe and nurture
his slaves in response to the services they provide for him. Serfdom
does not have that reciprocal responsibilility. The serf has to provide
services for his master but does not receive protection, food, clothing
and nurture in return. This is the ultimate goal of the "work ethic"
mentality. Your comments give me the impression that you are totally in
agreement with that criteria as a benchmark for measuring human value.
It is an attitude that I question particularly in this technicological
age where goods and services can provided for a vast number of people by
using machines that have eliminated the need for human
drugery. This age is failing to develope to human being both
mentally and spiritually because it is still wedded to outdated
concepts. Materialism does not satisfy the human soul. We will make no
progress as a species while the present attitude persists. If I am
wrong in my interpretation of your words I appologise,but would
appreciate your further comments on the issue.
William H.
McGunnigle
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005
3:48 AM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit]
Solomon Islands from Electronz
Jim,
You are entirely right about the production problem.
The solution to fight poverty is to encourage the production of
goods and services by nurturing a
favorable environment for job creation. Increasing
taxes and government spending is not the solution to create jobs, but
the perfect solution to create unemployment and spread
corruption. The poorest countries have the highest government
spending, typically with high military expenditures, a legion of
rotten bureaucrats with countless unproductive and inefficient
government employees. In the best scenario, the
spending of the government is causing poverty by depriving its
citizens of the fruit of their labor. However, more than often,
the government is the source massive regulations exclusively to
maintain the status quo for protecting inefficient nationalized
industries requiring taxpayer's money to fund their operations.
All government spending must be funded from its citizens, either by a
direct tax or by a hidden tax ? inflation. Taxes destroy
ambition and entrepreneurship, in addition to encourages welfare
laziness, not to ignore being the root of political and corporate
corruption. Redistribution of wealth is another tool to spread
poverty by reducing production of goods and services
because people receiving money don't work and therefore don't
produce anything. Giving money to citizens allows them to
consume without contributing anything to society.
Such facts are continently ignored by politicians pretending to
help the impoverished. Every once a while, politicians promise
to lower taxes to stimulate the economy. I don?t think
politicians care much about the well being of the economy? they care
being elected to have power for spending money pursuing their personal
agendas. If the goal was to stimulate the economy, why not
completely scrap taxes to have highest employment for higher standard
of living for everyone.
This monetary reform is just a scam to increase government
spending. Politicians love to have more money to spend, and they
will promise anything to increase their power. This monetary
reform will expand poverty. Time will confirm this fact once
more.
"It
doesn't make sense when the country is blessed with the resources
worth
$20 billion if developed but yet being labelled as a least
developed country".
There
are many countries blessed with resources, yet with rampant
poverty. Wealth is not measured by the amount of natural
resources, by the productivity (ie, production). This is the case of
Brazil and Japan respectively.
"There must be policies and strategies the
country needs to put in place to
tackle these issues," he
said.
The strategy is to remove the burden of taxes and regulations
to allow small businesses to start.
Sincerely,
-- Dan Morin.
My fear is that the Solomon Islands,
like Russia at the time they asked Douglas to consult with them, is
not developed enough for Social Credit. Their problem, as was
Russia's, is probably still production, and not distribution.
And because they are probably not developed enough for Social
Credit, it will be seen as a failure of Social Credit.
Any comments?
Jim
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005
5:38 AM
Subject: [socialcredit]
Solomon Islands from Electronz
SOLOMON ISLANDS AND SOCIAL
CREDIT
Monetary and political reform promoters around the
world are fascinated at
what is going on in the small Pacific
state of Solomon Islands. Reports
reaching Electronz from
there, Scotland, and New Zealand in the first few
days after
the Solomon Star News published its launching broadside
against
poverty, suggest that it has some prospects of
developing into a force to be
reckoned with. Apparently it is
being led by a previous Prime Minister. His
past electoral
success and experience in government should mean that
its
leader has much internal knowledge of Solomon politics, and
hopefully can
bring these to bear on improving the future
prospects for this particular
island state.
Our concern
is that on past experience elsewhere, when an idea to
benefit
the whole community carries the prospects of reducing
the control of the
international finance industry over its
affairs, and the outflow of
dividends to foreign corporates,
then "unexpected" problems for reforms and
reformers, can be
anticipated. So while wishing them every success, we also
say:
Keep in touch, and watch your backs!
This is how the
Solomon Star News ran the story, by Moffat Mamu:
Political
party pledges to tackle poverty
A NEWLY established
political party yesterday launched its manifesto,
pledging to
tackle poverty and other issues affecting youths and
grassroots
people.
Solomon Islands Social Credit Party
(SoCred) is headed by former Prime
Minister and East Choiseul
MP Manasseh Sogavare.
"Today, the majority of Solomon
Islanders are standing in solidarity,
reaching across borders,
with the knowledge that we are living in poverty
amidst
plenty".
"For SoCred members to reach across borders is to
subvert the financial
structures that enslaved us and that must
be dismantled for the good of our
people," Mr Sogavare said in
a statement.
He said Solomon Islands will always be in
poverty amidst plenty until we
introduced a radical monetary
reform in the country for the benefit of
everyone. Launching
the manifesto, Mr Sogavare said his party believes in
working
for the people mostly with the grassroots, youths and
unemployed
because they make the largest percentage of the
population in the country
and within the rural
sectors.
"We believed in principles to help these people.
Our decision must be made
in a way that best suit the future of
the country".
"Our national framework must be designed in
such a way that allows full
participation in all sectors to
eliminate poverty and boost development," he
said.
He
said poverty is one of the pressing issues the country needs to
address
because while we are blessed with resources that can
potentially be
developed, Solomon Islands is one of the six
Pacific islands being named as
still living under the poverty
line.
"Poverty is a crime, which Solomon Islands has the
right to fight".
"Such issues must not fall onto deaf ears
because it is a crucial one for
the country to tackle in due
time," the party leader and president, said.
"It doesn't
make sense when the country is blessed with the resources
worth
$20 billion if developed but yet being labelled as a
least developed
country".
"There must be policies and
strategies the country needs to put in place to
tackle these
issues," he said.
Yesterday's launching ceremony was
preceded by a march that starts from
Burns Creek in east
Honiara and the Borderline area to the Multi-Purpose
hall. It
attracted several hundreds of people marching together under
the
theme "Peoples March Against Poverty Amidst Plenty". Mr
Sogavare said the
march demonstrated by the members of the
party is to show to the people of
Solomon Islands what the
party is standing for.
"What you see here is a culmination
of sweat, planning and observation," he
said.
Mr
Sogavare said the country's 135-year history, which included the
85 years
of colonialism and 27 years of independence, has been
a trying period for
Solomon Islands. Only a few changes in
regards to development took place, he
said.
OUR COMMENT:
New Zealand has a special relationship with Solomon
Islands,
which not only makes it easy for them to gain
citizenship, but has meant
that in addition to supporting
numerous church schools in the Solomons, many
of those pupils
are able to continue their tertiary education in
N.Z.
Consequently, the past history of Social Credit in N.Z.,
and the incredible
boost that the first Labour Government
achieved by the implementing of
Social Credit financial
policies, have greatly encouraged the launching of
this SoCred
Party in the Solomons. If it is able to withstand the
inevitable
challenges from foreign interests (which do not want
the Solomons to escape
from their spell) then they may be able
to really go
places.
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