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Dear
William,
I am
certain the Industrial Revolution forced many artisans to work in factories
because they were unable to compete with the "industrial machines" producing
textiles and other goods. I am also certain there has been massive abuse
by the wealthy to exploit the underpaid workers, and politicians did nothing to
help them.
[William H.
McGunnigle] I
look forward to further observations from you particularly with regard to how
you think a reoganisation of the finacial system along Socred lines will serve
to ensure improvements in the Human condition.
I am
still in the process of learning and seeking the truth. I have given
myself a 20-year goal learn and accumulate enough wealth to start a foundation
or a project to address the problem of poverty. I am looking forward to
surround myself with individuals having integrity and ethical
values.
I am
very confident in the future.
Cheers,
-- Dan
Morin.
Dear Daniel
I will try to find the reference to public holidays in the Uk prior to the
Industrial Revolution. They were all based on the church's calender
and comprised the important "Feast Days where the lives and works of the
Christian Saints were celebrated. This is where the word "holiday" originates.
It is a venacular contraction of "Holy Day". The early industrialists objected
to their production lines being interrupted by these 'Feast Days" and
contrived to have them reduced to 4 which were Chistmas Day, Boxing Day ( The
Feast of Steven), Easter Monday, and Whitsuntide Monday. In Scotland and
Ireland New Years Day(Hogmany) was substituted for Whit Monday.
Personally I cannot claim such a distinguished ancestry as yourself. However I
am a follower of Christ and a Methodist Local Preacher. Retired now I have had
a varied career as a research scientist, army officer, secondary school
teacher and Tertiary lecturer. My qualifications range widely from degrees in
Science and History to certificates to operate steam locomotives. Like you I
came from a family that was poor, and have always believed that any system of
government that deliberately creates poverty among its people is morally as
well as fiscally bankrupt. Due to circumstances that have arisen over the last
10 years my financial situation has become rather awkward, but even so when I
see the abject poverty in certain parts of the world and even my own
country I believe I am wealthy by world standards. I am able to have choices
and not be controlled by others.
Incidently I have
to take up the trade union comment. In the early Industrial Revolution
productivity increased by factors as much as 100 fold, but in doing so they
replaced many cottage industries that employed thousands of people. These were
mainly textile workers ( hand weavers and spinners) who used the textile
trade to supplement their income and keep them above the subsistence line. The
New Industries took that trade away from them.These skilled workers were
forced into the towns to accept factory jobs that paid wages that barely met
their subsistance requirements. Even worse bacause of the "Poor Law"( a
mediaeval law designed in prevent beggary) Industrialists found they were able
to pay less than subsistance wages because their workers could apply for the
"Poor Law" hand outs to keep them alive. When the "Poor Law" was abolished
many people starved until the establishment of the "workhouse". Trade Unions
by militant action forced both the government and the employers to pay "living
wages" to workers. Politicians were notoriously absent from trying to ensure
the new prosperity from the increased productivity actually benefitted the
workers as well as the masters. This confirms your opinion about the
uselessness of politicians, They support their financial backers.They dont
"serve the people". Increased productivity alone does not ensure an
improvement in living standards or a reduction in poverty. Although I concede
it is an essential part in ensuring that it can take place.
I don't support
Socialism or Communism either, their views are simply another extreme master
tarred with the same brush as extreme right wingers. Extremes don't solve
problems they only create them.
I look forward to
further observations from you particularly with regard to how you think a
reoganisation of the finacial system along Socred lines will serve to ensure
improvements in the Human condition.
W.H.McGunnigle
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 4:15
AM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Solomon
Islands from Electronz - To William H. McGunnigle
Dear William,
I
believe we have more similarity in our cultural background than
differences. I was raised in a Christian church and still have the
values for justice. One of the biggest injustice is poverty, mostly in
third world countries, but also in our own respective countries. By
the way, my father was minister of the church for 18 years and he did 3
missionary trips to Haiti, and a 2-month mission trip to Africa
(Congo, Côte d'Ivoire, Zaire). I know personally several individuals
from those countries, and refugees from other devastated countries. I
grew up in a family with very low income. We never lacked anything,
but we could not afford any luxury. Myself, I feel I have a life
mission to fight poverty. Being poor is not a solution to fight
poverty and I plan to be wealthy by working hard. The belief that
wealth can only be gained at the expense of the poor is simply
wrong.
I
am surprised there were 56 days of public holiday per year prior the
Industrial Revolution. Do you really think the average UK resident had
56 days of public holiday each year? The reason I am asking this
question is because we don't have as many public holidays in America and
Europe at the moment. Can you send me a link to a reference about
this? Having a forced holiday is not freedom at all. It
is essentially the same as restricting people from working more
than 35 hours per week. I doubt the quality of life prior the
Industrial Revolution was as good as our quality of life in year
2005.
[William H.
McGunnigle] Pressure from
the Industrialists reduced this to 4 days plus Sundays by the end of the
18th century. At the same time wages were progressively reduced so that it
became necessary for men and women to work up to 14 hours per day to simply
earn enough to feed and clothe themselves. "Freedom"
to act independantly was drastically
curbed.
Using the word "pressure from the Industrialists" means less
freedom. I am in favor of more freedom. If
there was pressure from the Industrialists, then there was a law or
regulation restricting the freedom citizens. As a result, many of them
were forced into "slavery" to work for those industrialists. If the
citizens were free, they could continue living under the 56 days of public
holiday per year and ignore those Industrialists.
It
appear you give credit to Trade Unions for lifting people out of
poverty. What increased the wages was
productivity. Wages has been rising for hundred of
years because of incredible increases in
productivity.
[William H.
McGunnigle]
I appreciate
your comment about giving liberty to the Serf. It is very sound,
but this only works if the serf is sufficiently free of external obligations
(debt etc) to be able to think beyond where his or her next meal is coming
from.
This is true. You find better paid employees in countries
where there are lots of entrepreneurs, therefore lots of industries and
jobs. As labor becomes a scarce resource, entrepreneurs have to bid
more and more to hire and/or keep an employee. This is the case of
America and Canada. Those American and Canadian employees would be
better paid if there were more entrepreneurs. The more entrepreneurs,
the better for everyone, particularly for the poorest in the country.
The solution to slavery in poor countries is to nurture a
favorable climate for job creation, meaning fewer regulations, so the
average citizen can become an entrepreneur if desired. You will find
"slaves" in countries where there are very few jobs available. For
instance, in Haiti, the official unemployment rate over 66% resulting
in a low average salary of about $1,500 USD per year. Since labor
is abundant by having a lot of unemployed, entrepreneurs don't have to pay
much to hire an employee. The other factor is productivity. An
entrepreneur cannot pay an employee higher than the value he/she
is producing. For instance, Haiti has a shortage of skilled labor and
an abundant supply of unskilled labor.
Sincerely,
--
Daniel Morin.
Dear Daniel
I now have a clearer picture about your vision for the future. Taking into
consideration our distinctly different cultural backgrounds, I believe we
are basically of the same mind. I do however question your inference that
there is considerably more 'freedom' in North America or indeed the
western democracies than elsewhere. The United Kingdom for instance prior
to the Industrial Revolution had a society that had considerable freedom
particularly with regard to public holidays and festivals some 56 days per
year plus Sundays. Pressure from the Industrialists reduced this to 4 days
plus Sundays by the end of the 18th century.
. At the same time wages were progressively
reduced so that it became necessary for men and women to work up to 14
hours per day to simply earn enough to feed and clothe themselves.
"Freedom" to act independantly was
drastically curbed. Admittedly the
franchaise did not extend to all these
exploited people until 1930 (in the UK), but the growth of the "Trade
Union" movement played a significant part in ensuring that earnings were
restored to a level that exceeded subsistence.
There appears to be a
significant trend in North America and Western Europe to restore
conditions leading to subsistence existence for many people.
I appreciate your
comment about giving liberty to the Serf. It is very sound, but
this only works if the serf is sufficiently free of external obligations
(debt etc) to be able to think beyond where his or her next meal is coming
from. I believe there is a strange corellation here. In drug addiction the
victim becomes focussed only and solely upon obtaining sufficient funding
to purchase their next "fix". To get that funding the mind is reduced to
the basic fundamentals and any thoughts beyond that drive are eliminated.
In many ways this parallels the worlds financial position. Multinationals
exploit areas of high population and unemployment to pay subsistence and
sometimes less than subsistence wages. People in that position have little
option to exercise freedom of choice i.e. Liberty. The Irony of all this
is that slaves with a averagely generous master were better off physically
and mentally than the average serf. They had leisure time and did not
need to worry about the necessities of life. Many were educated because it
gave the master a scribe or accountant without the need to pay him. They
were treated as valuable assetts. Serfs were not.
Your comments about
politicians are well made. A recent survey in New Zealand showed that
people had more trust in used-car salesmen than the average politician. I
think that says more about the value of politicians to our society than
any other comment.
Combatting
corruption is an on going problem, and will always exist while
opportunities to exploite people remain.
W.H.McGunnigle
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 6:19
AM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Solomon
Islands from Electronz - To William H. McGunnigle
Dear William,
Thanks for your reply and comments.
[William
H. McGunnigle] If you have been following the discourse between
Wallace and myself you should have realised that we are convinced that
this is not a natural state for the human race, but an imposed
conditioning created by secular rulers and religious organisations as a
method of controlling the human race.
I truly believe there are two classes of human beings:
individuals who want to control others and individuals having no
interest controlling other human beings. Instead of trying to
focus on the "natural state of the human race", I would focus on the
"natural state of a population in a given country". Countries with
the most freedom offers the highest work ethics to their citizens.
You will find fewer sweatshops in America and in Canada than you
will find in third world countries. Freedom brings prosperity to
everyone, particularly to the poorest in the country. The poorest
in America (USA) and Canada are "suffering" obesity; while in the
third world they starve to death.
The people wishing to rule the world are using the money supply
to control, buy and bribe individuals and businesses. Having the
power to print money is the most powerful method to control a
population. Do you wish this power to lay in the hands of a few
individuals? Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts
absolutely.
[William H. McGunnigle]
In particular the development of a corrupt and evil
monetary system has been responsible for distorting the human psyche and
reducing much of the human race to serfdom.
You are entirely right on this. I am 100% in favor of a
sound monetary system. The question is "what is a sound monetary
system?" I am sure we both agree that bad
monetary system is the primary source of corruption, favoring
one class of individuals at the expense of others. Giving
unrestricted power to a class of individuals is a great danger for them
to become tyrants and enslave others.
If someone wants to make a difference in morality of the
developing countries, he would do better to fight corruption in the
public office, in government rules that cannot be enforced fairly and
uniformly, and in the pathetically inefficient judiciary. Freedom is the
only long-run means to promote economic development, justice and
human rights.
[William H.
McGunnigle] The serf has to
provide services for his master but does not receive protection, food,
clothing and nurture in return. This is the ultimate goal of the "work
ethic" mentality.
What about giving liberty to the "serf" so he can
become the master of his own destiny? Regulations create
slaves, depriving citizens of their their liberty to conduct
business. Regulations create monopolies by making it expensive for
someone to afford the regulatory fees and/or pay the bribes to
run the business. It is
routine to pay high bribes in third world countries. For instance,
in Russia, the average bribe paid to corrupt bureaucrats is 13 times
what it was four years ago. While the number of bribes paid had
decreased since 2001, the average sum paid was now £77,000, up from
£5,800 four years ago (source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1533722,00.html).
Only the wealthy can afford a bribe of £77,000 (135,000 USD).
Since the average citizen cannot afford the "right to be self-employed",
he is forced to slavery by working for big corporations.
If you want to know more, you are welcome to read http://www.fee.org/~web/0105iolpdf/fromprez.pdf
When you have accepted being corrupt (as
socialism asks for — forcibly take away from someone to give to someone
else), you can very easily transfer that logic to apply to your family
and then to yourself. The character issue is the area where the worst of
socialism lies. It has impoverished the souls. Such an ideology is the worse danger for the human
race.
[William H. McGunnigle]
This age is failing to develope to
human being both mentally and spiritually because it is still wedded to
outdated concepts.
The outdated concept is that politicians can solve
problems. We have been brainwashed by our government-funded
education system that politicians are the solution to every problem,
while in fact they have been the cause of all our problems.
Freedom is what grows a man to become responsible of his actions, and to
develop him mentally and spiritually. The use of force and
violation of human rights does lead to higher morality nor nurture
spirituality.
[William H. McGunnigle]
We will make no progress as a species
while the present attitude persists.
This is true. The old attitude embracing the idea of having
one group of individuals allowed to control the human race is a real
danger to mankind. Usually, this ideology is hidden under a
democracy or a clever control of the money supply by the elite.
To make progress, we must have liberty, not
tyrany.
Sincerely,
-- Dan Morin.
Reply to Daniel Morin
Although your arguments appear solid they assume that the "WORK ETHIC"
is a natural and logical part of human existence. If you have
been following the discourse between Wallace and myself you
should have realised that we are convinced that this is not a natural
state for the human race, but an imposed conditioning created by
secular rulers and religious organisations as a method of controlling
the human race. In particular the development of a corrupt and evil
monetary system has been responsible for distorting the human psyche
and reducing much of the human race to serfdom. I emphasise serfdom,
because unlike slavery where a master has a responsibility to protect,
feed, clothe and nurture his slaves in response to the services they
provide for him. Serfdom does not have that reciprocal
responsibilility. The serf has to provide services for his master but
does not receive protection, food, clothing and nurture in return.
This is the ultimate goal of the "work ethic" mentality. Your comments
give me the impression that you are totally in agreement with that
criteria as a benchmark for measuring human value. It is an attitude
that I question particularly in this technicological age where goods
and services can provided for a vast number of people by using
machines that have eliminated the need for human drugery. This
age is failing to develope to human being both mentally and
spiritually because it is still wedded to outdated concepts.
Materialism does not satisfy the human soul. We will make no progress
as a species while the present attitude persists. If I am wrong
in my interpretation of your words I appologise,but would
appreciate your further comments on the issue.
William H.
McGunnigle
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005
3:48 AM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit]
Solomon Islands from Electronz
Jim,
You are entirely right about the production
problem. The solution to fight poverty is to
encourage the production of goods and services
by nurturing a favorable environment for job
creation. Increasing taxes and government spending is not the
solution to create jobs, but the perfect solution to create
unemployment and spread corruption. The poorest countries have
the highest government spending, typically with high military
expenditures, a legion of rotten bureaucrats with countless
unproductive and inefficient government employees.
In the best scenario, the spending of the government is causing
poverty by depriving its citizens of the fruit of their labor.
However, more than often, the government is the source massive
regulations exclusively to maintain the status quo for protecting
inefficient nationalized industries requiring taxpayer's money to
fund their operations. All government spending must be funded
from its citizens, either by a direct tax or by a hidden tax ?
inflation. Taxes destroy ambition and entrepreneurship, in
addition to encourages welfare laziness, not to ignore being the
root of political and corporate corruption. Redistribution of
wealth is another tool to spread poverty by reducing production of
goods and services because people receiving money don't work
and therefore don't produce anything. Giving money to citizens
allows them to consume without contributing anything to
society.
Such facts are continently ignored by politicians pretending
to help the impoverished. Every once a while, politicians
promise to lower taxes to stimulate the economy. I don?t think
politicians care much about the well being of the economy? they care
being elected to have power for spending money pursuing their
personal agendas. If the goal was to stimulate the economy,
why not completely scrap taxes to have highest employment for higher
standard of living for everyone.
This monetary reform is just a scam to
increase government spending. Politicians love to have
more money to spend, and they will promise anything to increase
their power. This monetary reform will expand poverty.
Time will confirm this fact once more.
"It
doesn't make sense when the country is blessed with the resources
worth
$20 billion if developed but yet being labelled as a least
developed country".
There
are many countries blessed with resources, yet with rampant
poverty. Wealth is not measured by the amount of natural
resources, by the productivity (ie, production). This is the case of
Brazil and Japan respectively.
"There must be policies and strategies the
country needs to put in place to
tackle these issues," he
said.
The strategy is to remove the burden of taxes and regulations
to allow small businesses to start.
Sincerely,
-- Dan Morin.
My fear is that the Solomon Islands,
like Russia at the time they asked Douglas to consult with them,
is not developed enough for Social Credit. Their problem, as
was Russia's, is probably still production, and not
distribution. And because they are probably not developed
enough for Social Credit, it will be seen as a failure of Social
Credit.
Any comments?
Jim
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005
5:38 AM
Subject: [socialcredit]
Solomon Islands from Electronz
SOLOMON ISLANDS
AND SOCIAL CREDIT
Monetary and political reform promoters
around the world are fascinated at
what is going on in the
small Pacific state of Solomon Islands. Reports
reaching
Electronz from there, Scotland, and New Zealand in the first
few
days after the Solomon Star News published its launching
broadside against
poverty, suggest that it has some prospects
of developing into a force to be
reckoned with. Apparently it
is being led by a previous Prime Minister. His
past electoral
success and experience in government should mean that
its
leader has much internal knowledge of Solomon politics,
and hopefully can
bring these to bear on improving the future
prospects for this particular
island state.
Our
concern is that on past experience elsewhere, when an idea to
benefit
the whole community carries the prospects of reducing
the control of the
international finance industry over its
affairs, and the outflow of
dividends to foreign corporates,
then "unexpected" problems for reforms and
reformers, can be
anticipated. So while wishing them every success, we
also
say: Keep in touch, and watch your backs!
This is
how the Solomon Star News ran the story, by Moffat
Mamu:
Political party pledges to tackle poverty
A
NEWLY established political party yesterday launched its
manifesto,
pledging to tackle poverty and other issues
affecting youths and grassroots
people.
Solomon
Islands Social Credit Party (SoCred) is headed by former
Prime
Minister and East Choiseul MP Manasseh
Sogavare.
"Today, the majority of Solomon Islanders are
standing in solidarity,
reaching across borders, with the
knowledge that we are living in poverty
amidst
plenty".
"For SoCred members to reach across borders is
to subvert the financial
structures that enslaved us and that
must be dismantled for the good of our
people," Mr Sogavare
said in a statement.
He said Solomon Islands will always
be in poverty amidst plenty until we
introduced a radical
monetary reform in the country for the benefit of
everyone.
Launching the manifesto, Mr Sogavare said his party believes
in
working for the people mostly with the grassroots, youths
and unemployed
because they make the largest percentage of
the population in the country
and within the rural
sectors.
"We believed in principles to help these people.
Our decision must be made
in a way that best suit the future
of the country".
"Our national framework must be designed
in such a way that allows full
participation in all sectors
to eliminate poverty and boost development,"
he
said.
He said poverty is one of the pressing issues
the country needs to address
because while we are blessed
with resources that can potentially be
developed, Solomon
Islands is one of the six Pacific islands being named
as
still living under the poverty line.
"Poverty is a
crime, which Solomon Islands has the right to
fight".
"Such issues must not fall onto deaf ears because
it is a crucial one for
the country to tackle in due time,"
the party leader and president, said.
"It doesn't make
sense when the country is blessed with the resources
worth
$20 billion if developed but yet being labelled as a
least developed
country".
"There must be policies and
strategies the country needs to put in place to
tackle these
issues," he said.
Yesterday's launching ceremony was
preceded by a march that starts from
Burns Creek in east
Honiara and the Borderline area to the Multi-Purpose
hall. It
attracted several hundreds of people marching together under
the
theme "Peoples March Against Poverty Amidst Plenty". Mr
Sogavare said the
march demonstrated by the members of the
party is to show to the people of
Solomon Islands what the
party is standing for.
"What you see here is a
culmination of sweat, planning and observation,"
he
said.
Mr Sogavare said the country's 135-year
history, which included the 85 years
of colonialism and 27
years of independence, has been a trying period for
Solomon
Islands. Only a few changes in regards to development took
place, he
said.
OUR COMMENT: New Zealand has a special
relationship with Solomon Islands,
which not only makes it
easy for them to gain citizenship, but has meant
that in
addition to supporting numerous church schools in the Solomons,
many
of those pupils are able to continue their tertiary
education in N.Z.
Consequently, the past history of Social
Credit in N.Z., and the incredible
boost that the first
Labour Government achieved by the implementing of
Social
Credit financial policies, have greatly encouraged the launching
of
this SoCred Party in the Solomons. If it is able to
withstand the inevitable
challenges from foreign interests
(which do not want the Solomons to escape
from their spell)
then they may be able to really go
places.
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