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SubjectFrom
#5 of A Republic, wesburt
Fig6b.gif for #5 wesburt
Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
Re: Fw: RE: [socia Martin H
Re: Fw: RE: [socia W. McGun
Fw: Fw: RE: [socia Martin H
Re: Flux - Efflux cymric
Re: [socialcredit] Kenneth
usury et al Triumpho
Hollow Earth Socie William
Re: [socialcredit] William
seed-death Triumpho
Re: [socialcredit] Adavans
"seed-death" Triumpho
insurance premium? Triumpho
Re: usury et al cymric
Re: [socialcredit] cymric
Re: Fw: Fw: RE: [s Kenneth
Re: [socialcredit] Kenneth
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Re: [socialcredit] William
HELPING THE MONE donzbeth
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
interest as insura Triumpho
toleration Triumpho
Re: [socialcredit] Kenneth
Re: [socialcredit] Kenneth
Re: [socialcredit] Kenneth
Re: [socialcredit] William
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
what is risked? Triumpho
Re: HELPING THE Walt.p
interest as insura Triumpho
Re: [socialcredit] cymric
Re: HELPING THE Stephen
Well, dear Triumpho
"Well, dear" Triumpho
Re: HELPING THE Robert A
Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
Re: [socialcredit] Kenneth
Re: cymric
Year of Jubilee Keith Wi
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
Trotskyists, Georg William
Re: [socialcredit] William
Re: [socialcredit] Jim
Re: [socialcredit] cymric
The Trinity William
Re: [socialcredit] cymric
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
The Mind of God William
Re: The Mind of Go cymric
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Re: [socialcredit] Adavans
Re: [socialcredit] Adavans
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
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Subject:Re: Fw: Fw: RE: [socialcredit] Questions for Ed Dodson -- Wally replie
Date:Tuesday, August 23, 2005  22:35:00 (+0100)
From:Kenneth Palmerton <kenpalmerton @................uk>

In-Reply-To: <008901c5a695$2a5be2d0$e16422cf@martinh4>
Hi Martin.

The comments you make about biblical stories is, as I am sure you know, 
the basis of the "Jubilee" movement here in the UK.

The enjoinders were that all debts were to be revoked each Seven years. 
And that all slaves were to be freed, and all land returned to its 
original owners each Fifty years, or each seven times seven to be more 
exact.

These were "The acceptable years of the Lord".

What we forget is that the great cry "Hallelujah" is the cry of the slaves 
released from debt and bondage.  And was the issue that prompted Handel to 
write his great oratorio "Messiah".

Is it not strange that Kondriatev, the Russian economist "discovered " 
trade cycles of Seven and Fifty years ?

Ken.

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<008901c5a695$2a5be2d0$e16422cf@martinh4>From: "Martin Hattersley" 
<hattersleyjm@interbaun.com>To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
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[socialcredit] Questions for Ed Dodson -- Wally replies with critique of 
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----- Original Message -----=20
From: Martin Hattersley=20
To: socialcredit@elistas.com=20
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: RE: [socialcredit] Questions for Ed Dodson -- Wally =
replies with critique of George by W.T. Symons


Wally -

Symons writes with great style - but I think he overstates his case.

I don't see the "single tax" as a solution to all problems, and it seems =
to me it should be balanced by  National Dividend, but just the same, =
the growing gap that I see between rich and poor in the world is very =
much connected with who pays rent for the ground they stand on, and who =
receives that rent (or alternatively, owns their home and so doesn't =
have to pay it). Enclosures of common land have in the past been a great =
source of poverty for the masses.

It's interesting that the Pentateuch devises a very elaborate system to =
give every family an inalienable inheritance of land, and to return it =
to its owner in the Year of Jubilee every fifty years. That may have =
been impractical also, but it shows a concern that goes back to =
antiquity that everyone should have a inalienable share in natural =
resources.

As to the complications of imposing such a tax - have you looked at the =
Income Tax Act lately?

Martin Hattersley
1970-10123-99 St.,=20
EDMONTON AB CANADA
e-mail: hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Wallace M. Klinck=20
  To: socialcredit@elistas.com=20
  Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 12:39 AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: RE: [socialcredit] Questions for Ed Dodson -- Wally =
replies with critique of George by W.T. Symons


  Re the ideas of Henry George, I have excerpted the following critique =
by the British Social Credit writer, W. T. Symons from his book:  (PDF =
attached)

  The Coming of Community by W. T. Symons=20

  (London: C. W. Daniel Company, 1931, pp. 150-61)



  (B) SOCIOLOGICAL=20

  THE TAXATION OF LAND VALUES=20

  ARGUMENTATIVE NOTES=20

  To describe private property in land as the root cause of human =
disabilities to-day is to deny the element of Time and the stream of =
dynamic expansion from the spirit in Man to the outer world. It is to =
ascribe to humanity the static quality of the animal creation.=20

  It is true that the power of the few over the many, the alienation of =
the many from the common birthright of all men, was partly accomplished =
by means of private ownership in natural resources, in the stuff of the =
earth; but with every addition to man's conquest over natural forces, =
every step away from the pastoral stage of human development, the =
centrality of that wrong has been shifted. The discovery and application =
of electricity has removed a vast field of communal right from the land =
altogether; the heaped inventions that supersede the personal labour of =
man and counter the cycle of the seasons; the devices that hasten =
maturity and arrest decay, by application of artificial heat to growth =
and of artificial cold to perishable products of the earth; and above =
them all the passing of power from ownership of the earth to creation =
and destruction of the tokens by which its value is expressed. These =
have carried the 'root' back through the material to the immaterial, and =
have presented this age with a new, unprecedented and transcendent =
circumstance: Faith in man -Real Credit-is now the focus of world power, =
and no longer ownership of the earth upon which man lives. The root =
question of our day is: who shall exploit the faith of mankind in the =
continuance of its own processes? Shall this total value-the modern =
equivalent of the primitive value, the earth-be converted into financial =
credit and used by mankind for mankind, or shall it continue to be =
exploited by the successors to the owners of the earth, who, with =
masterly subtlety, have converted the earth and the whole field of human =
endeavour into financial credit based upon Real Credit, and by this =
device have reduced the world to a private preserve for the sport of a =
giddy, fantastic control over the whole blossoming of man's irresistible =
fertility; control but not ownership, for to them ownership is anathema. =


  *****

  Money is power over other men, because it has become essential to =
exchange of commodities and property of all kinds, and because it can be =
created and destroyed by the stroke of a pen, and is not a commodity. If =
money then is both the means of exchange and the power to call or =
refrain from calling real wealth into being, it contains the whole =
possibility of man's movement over the surface of the earth, with all =
the development of human variety that has flowed from that movement. Man =
by this device is relieved from the necessity of standing upon one spot: =
his labour there may be converted into tokens exchangeable elsewhere. He =
need not follow one avocation from birth to death. His labour is =
cumulative in fact, and may be stored in tokens, and used at his leisure =
to explore not only the earth but his own mind. The genius of =
civilisation consists in creation of something that survives the day's =
toil or the season's produce, something that is not the land, that is =
not his who labours. It is the common overflow of all labour, not merely =
labour of the moment or labour measured by time, but labour in that =
other dimension-intensity, whereof the fruit, in mechanical invention =
and in the arts, accumulates and constitutes the cultural inheritance of =
mankind. The alienation of the entire cultural inheritance, of which the =
land is only the groundwork, is the root of modern distress. The manna =
from heaven which must be consumed each day is now the psychic energy =
that each day produces, and the thwarting of that energy is the evil =
that is breaking the world in pieces.=20

  It is vain to object that any man reaps where he has not sown. All men =
so reap and cannot do otherwise; their labour of to-day is but the =
finger-tip to the energy of the whole body of the race. Privilege is =
universal. To curtail the excesses of privilege-and that in one =
direction only-instead of expanding the limitless possibilities won by =
the whole torrent of man's soul, is to deny the conquest of the ages. In =
political terms it is to aid Conservatism in its rigid terror of =
expansion, in its rejection of all human fulness by denial of human =
achievement. In economic terms it is to foster the scarcity theory and =
bow to the subjection of all the realities of life to the token (money) =
system. Every man is the involuntary inheritor of the whole past, =
whatever the difference between men in the degree of their enjoyment of =
that inheritance.

  *****=20

  It is necessary to abandon the conception of 'earning a living' as the =
test of human virtue, and to accept the full implication of the fact =
that a 'living' has been won-won with such overwhelming abundance that =
the evil forces of the world are expended in preventing plenty from =
reaching and fulfilling the great unsatisfied physical needs of mankind. =
The moral idea of service no longer requires emphasis on the physical =
plane. 'Earning a living,' in the sense of industrial employment, could =
easily become the privilege of a highly-skilled few, leaving the =
majority free to engage in occupations of infinite variety, whereby they =
might contribute vastly more to the unfolding of human destiny than =
could conceivably be attained by limiting the idea of world service to =
participation in the provision of its primitive necessities. The barrier =
laid across this human progression is that of the Token erected supreme =
over the Substance. That barrier needs the concentrated direction of the =
whole weight of the human tide to burst it. But by its removal all =
communal values, including land, could be returned to the community =
easily and continuously.=20

  November 1926.=20

  *****

  The "Single Tax" (so called because it is presumed that the whole =
revenue required by the State could be raised by the one levy) consists =
of the proposal that all land should be taxed to the full amount of its =
"economic rent," exclusive of all improvements. The underlying idea that =
private ownership of land has "no more foundation in morality or reason =
than ownership of air or sunlight" (1. Encyclo. Britt: Article on Henry =
George) is common ground. To Henry George falls the honour of having =
first worked out the proposal to give effect by this method of taxation =
to the equal right of all men to the use of the earth. The levy proposed =
by him was to be based upon the figure paid annually to the existing =
owner as rent, and it was assumed that the rent paid represents at any =
given time the highest price the land will fetch. "Nothing made by man =
would be taxed at all." (2. Ibid.)=20

  The theory is attractive in its ideal justice and in its simplicity. =
It has drawn widespread attention from all over the world, especially =
amongst English-speaking people. But even at the time it was =
promulgated, 1879, the complication of modern mechanical invention, and =
the intensive exploitation of the earth, made separation of =
'improvements' from the land itself a matter of extreme difficulty. Two =
critics in particular-one contemporary and one of the present day-are =
worth quotation because neither can be supposed to be hostile to the =
underlying intention. Taussig writes:=20

  "One fundamental obstacle is, as regards agricultural land, the =
difficulty of measuring the investment made in the soil and the normal =
return on it. Rent is not earmarked as a separate return-is inextricably =
mixed with the complex processes of tilling the soil and maintaining =
it." (3. F. W. Taussig, Ph.D., LL.D., Prof. Of Economics, Harvard =
University, in "Principles of Economics," Vol. II, p.80.)=20

  And again-=20

  "The whole institution of private property would need to be =
overhauled-in equity-if this sort of proposal were put through. Land at =
its existing value cannot be treated on different principles from those =
applied to other kinds of property." (4. Ibid., Vol. II, p. 107.)=20

  Dr. Hugh Dalton, Labour M.P. for Camberwell and Reader in Commerce at =
the London School of Economics, raises a series of practical points tha =
t have to be faced.=20

  He writes:=20

  "-two grave objections to a single tax (on land). The first is that it =
would not, in most modern communities, bring in enough revenue to =
balance the public accounts. The second is that it would be a very bad =
distribution of the burden of taxation. For a millionaire who owned no =
land would pay no taxes, while a poor man who had invested all his =
savings in the purchase of his house would pay in taxation a =
considerable portion of his income." (5. "Principles of Public Finance," =
Hugh Dalton, M.A., D.Sc. Econ., p. 42)=20

  "The argument that the incidence of a tax on the value of land, as =
distinct from improvements, falls entirely on the landowners, assumes =
that the latter is already securing the highest rent that he can from =
his land. Where he is not doing so one of the effects of the imposition =
of a new tax, or the increase of an existing tax, may be to make him =
'look sharply to his rents and take in the slack.' In this case part of =
the incidence will be upon the occupier.=20

  " ... The practical valuation of land, as distinct from improvements, =
is often very difficult ... "=20

  "The occupier of a building, if engaged in trade, may be able to shift =
part of the incidence ... on to the purchasers of his products." (6. =
Ibid., p. 61 and 62.)=20


  These practical objections have been accentuated to an extreme degree =
as 'improvements,' in the widest sense, have rapidly outrun the value of =
the land, under the stimulus of mechanical power; the whole balance of =
the argument has been changed by the creation of entirely new communal =
values, those arising from discoveries and inventions of all kinds that =
lessen the demand for direct labour on 'land.' The value of all such =
'improvements' should be credited to the community as soon as the =
original inventors and makers have been rewarded. The principle =
enunciated remains unassailable, but its application, literally, to land =
would be conclusive and sufficient only in a primitive community; its =
application to land alone, were it possible without a cataclysm of evil =
consequences, would undoubtedly mitigate the pressure of poverty, even =
in a modern community. But the unavoidable injustice of its incidence to =
those who happen to be holders of such property to-day, and the immense =
disturbance of the 'collateral,' largely represented by deeds of land =
and buildings, held by Banks as security for loans and overdrafts to =
social and industrial enterprises that would result, compel a new =
analysis. Land in this country would be thrown wholesale upon the State; =
and all who had power to do so would withdraw and invest elsewhere, thus =
weakening the already diminished attractiveness of the land and reducing =
the return from its taxation. To propose solution of the acute modern =
social distress by this means, is to fail to observe that a considerable =
part of agricultural land, in this country particularly, constitutes not =
an asset to the owner but a liability, and that money obtained by =
investment or labour in other fields has to be brought in to enable the =
owner to meet the barest charges of up-keep. This is not natural or =
right, for ultimate value is truly said to be in 'land,' but it =
indicates that the centre of gravity has shifted, that direct attack =
upon ownership of land to-day would not only fail to achieve justice, it =
would leave the greater part of the modern economic evil untouched.=20

  The reason of this is not immediately apparent; it has to be sought in =
the ascendency of the tokens of wealth over the realities of wealth. In =
addition to the new orientation of the physical facts, this overwhelming =
circumstance has arisen, through development, parallel with the creation =
of fabulous communal values, of the modern money system. That system =
puts money into circulation at the time of production, lends it for =
payment of wages and dividends to the makers, but when the reclaimed =
land, the new machine, the new building, the new process-whatever it may =
be-ceases to be itself the product of labour for which remuneration is =
paid, and passes into the service of further production the system fails =
to cancel the money debt by the new wealth created. (7. "The Banker =
creates money for industrial purposes, or withdraws it, as he desires =
... The so-called captains of industry are more and more becoming =
puppets of the bankers. No nation in its senses would continue in such =
harness."-Mr. John Wheatley in The New Leader, December 31st, 1926.) The =
debt is carried forward into the new period, and the landowner, the =
farmer, the manufacturer, the municipal or State enterprise, is =
compelled, under threat of bankruptcy, to claim the costs of the capital =
'improvement' from the public in the prices of articles of consumption, =
and , to maintain these increased prices long after the 'improvement' =
has in fact been paid for by the community, and the money so paid has =
been spent upon the bodily needs of those who created the addition to =
the community's wealth and received it in exchange for their labour.=20

  *****

  The difficulty we have to meet is radical. The financial system =
ordains not only that exchanges shall be effected by means of money, it =
also prescribes that money shall not be put into circulation except in =
payment (through wages, salaries or dividends) for some expenditure of =
effort upon production (in the widest sense); and that every payment so =
made shall be included in prices, through which it is collected back =
again, returned to its source (the banks) and cancelled. In conformity =
with this principle, the money withdrawn from land-owners by taxation of =
land values would in fact, be cancelled out of circulation. This would =
be accomplished directly, by repayment of Government debt to the banks =
or the banks' private borrowers, and consequent cancellation in bank =
ledgers; and indirectly, by the resultant 'contraction of credit,' the =
effect of which would be felt in lower remuneration to those engaged in =
the work of the community upon a 'cost of living' basis. The lower =
remuneration would inevitably reach a point of equality with the new =
(lower) level of prices that would result from the smaller quantity of =
money in cilculation. Thus the advantages of lifting the present claims =
of the landlord from production costs would be nullified by the =
financial system.=20

  *****=20

  The system of thought and scale of values, which find expression in =
the financial system, are so fundamental that no solution of this Age's =
great material problems can lie in the realm of negation. A positive =
transcendence of idea and of technique is essential. We cannot solve our =
problem by the achievement of a reform which would-if completely =
successful-reestablish Arcadia. There must indeed be Arcadia, if only =
for replenishment of the earth with virile human beings-and for simple =
happiness. But the perilous achievement of men in leaving the breast of =
mother earth and adventuring in realms of nervous intensity, divorced =
from Arcadian existence, is not to be interpreted as perversion. A =
primitive simplicity of life does not accord with the flowering of the =
intellect. Variety of food, clothing, surroundings-is essential to the =
sensitive modern, and with it a new order of simplicity, consisting in =
harmonious complexity. Art affords guidance on the dangerous road from =
mere addition of wants and powers to a poised mastery, in which form, =
colour, sound, texture, in infinite variety, become at once expression =
of the new soul and solvent of the inevitable stress accompanying her =
heightened sensibility.


  This condition is the result, at its deepest, of the altogether new =
assertion of human value, and of unmeasurable possibility in the =
individual, which is the essence of Christianity. It constitutes a new =
world, with new centres of gravity. It has necessitated the development =
of money, the token, to utmost flexibility-that the exchange of goods =
should be facilitated to the utmost. But men's powers have outrun their =
wisdom, and have called forth a subtle, overwhelming resistance. The =
token has become the check upon man's genius, irresistible in its =
perversion. But as the seed falls into the earth, and roots strongly =
before ascending again into stem and flower at the call of the sun, so =
it was necessary that the tremendous assertion of the individual =
will-to-power, should work in the earth first to lift the 'curse' of =
Adam. The material fruits of that intensification must be freely =
distributed amongst the generations that have come to birth amidst its =
prodigality. Springing from the earth, based upon the earth, but =
harnessing the lightning, precipitating from the atmosphere the chemical =
replenishment of the earth's fertility; and releasing to his service the =
imprisoned sun that shone in past aeons-man has given a new meaning to =
'land.'=20

  The lightening of toil, made possible by transformation of the very =
earth itself into the marvels of mechanical contrivance-driven by solar =
energy to produce the work of a thousand unaided men-must be made to =
serve the purposes of all, inheritors as we all are of the prodigious =
labours and invention of the human race. The service must be without =
discrimination, as the rain falls upon the just and the unjust.=20

  We live under a system which denies this, and works with superhuman =
cunning to prevent that consummation not only by imprisoning the =
aspiring human soul in his mere material achievement; but more, by =
pressing him back, in frustration and denial even of his conquests on =
that plane. So successfully has this restraint been imposed, that even =
now the call for 'economy,' the demand to 'work harder and consume =
less,' the heartbreaking scarcity,-are believed to be expressions of =
natural necessity, that may be alleviated here and there by =
philanthropic effort, and borne, with gruesome suffering, by inculcation =
of 'morality' in the name of 'economic law.'=20

  The characteristic is that of a total reversal not of a partial =
misdirection. They shall not have "life more abundant." Nothing less =
than the antithesis of the true values, and inversion of the essential =
instrument of man's florescence, would serve to enthrone the power that =
arrests the world's progress and breaks man's spirit. For this reason, =
nothing less than concentration of human energy upon the establishment =
of true values in the new world, and the erection of the material =
instrument right way up, will serve to provide the physical basis upon =
which the freedom of man can be preserved. The greater includes the =
less. The restoration of land values to the people will be achieved-and =
can only be achieved-by restoration of power to the realities of world =
production, and imposition of servitude upon the mere tokens of those =
realities. The matter is spiritual and technical; not moral and =
political. It is for all to see and demand, and for a skilled few to =
work out, in conformity with the common vision and the universal desire, =
with no other criterion of success than fulfilment of that vision and =
satisfaction of that demand. The next step will not be disclosed until =
this one is taken.=20

  November 1926, February and May 1927.=20



    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Martin Hattersley=20
    To: socialcredit@elistas.com=20
    Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 12:38 PM
    Subject: Re: Fw: RE: [socialcredit] Questions for Ed Dodson


    I was thinking rather of putting together a demonstration game that =
would teach Georgists how important the monetary system is in =
influencing what happens in the economy, and remind Social Crediters =
that, whether in rents and site values, or in the issue of a monetary =
medium, "the private monopolization of publicly created values" is an =
matter that needs to be controlled in the interest of the community.

    I once revised the rules of Monopoly so that the Banker was an =
actual banker, charging interest on loans, and playing favorites among =
the players to help one and hinder another, all with the idea of =
becoming the monopolist himself. It was the most depressing game I have =
ever played, as the economy spiralled into depression, with cut price =
property sales, and everything becoming controlled by the bank.

    What was most interesting, when I tried this on another occasion =
with a group from Mensa, was the gleam of revelation that spread on =
people's faces when they completed the accounting form that created a =
bank loan, and learned for the first time how money came into being!

    Martin Hattersley, 1970 10123 99St.,
    EDMONTON  AB  Canada T5J 3H1
    Phone (780)423-4081:Fax (780)425-5247
    e-mail: jmartinh@shaw.ca

      ----- Original Mesnh@edmcsage -----=20
      From: Adavans@aol.com=20
      To: socialcredit@elistas.com=20
      Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 2:11 AM
      Subject: Re: Fw: RE: [socialcredit] Questions for Ed Dodson


      Martin Hattersley wrote

      "George, of course, did not go into the money system in any depth =
at all. But=20
      the game of "Monopoly" (founded on an earlier "Landlord Game" =
designed to=20
      illustrate Georgist principles), certainly illustrates the =
tendency of the=20
      rental of sites to concentrate ownership and bankrupt the majority =
of=20
      society. Varying the rules so that the Bank is paid rent by those =
who land=20
      on mortgaged property might make the bridge we need between George =
and=20
      Douglas."

      Mr. Hattersley, I certainly have wanted to see a bridge between =
Social Credit and Georgist thought, and I'm happy to see an advocate of =
Social Credit suggest where that bridge may be situated.  I wonder if =
you could clarify and expand upon the underlined portion of your =
comments above.  Are you possibly suggesting some kind of cooperative =
land banking such as has been proposed by Shann Turnbull at COG?

      Regards
      Alan Avans=20






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------=_NextPart_000_0082_01C5A662.BD474EA0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2722" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial"=20
bottomMargin=3D7 bgColor=3D#ffffff leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 =
rightMargin=3D7>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3Dmartinh@ecn.ab.ca href=3D"mailto:martinh@ecn.ab.ca">Martin =
Hattersley</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dsocialcredit@elistas.com=20
href=3D"mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, August 20, 2005 3:37 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: Fw: RE: [socialcredit] Questions for Ed Dodson =
-- Wally=20
replies with critique of George by W.T. Symons</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Wally -</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Symons writes with great style - but =
I think=20
he overstates his case.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">I don't see the "single tax" as a =
solution to=20
all problems, and it seems to me it should be balanced by  National =

Dividend, but just the same, the growing gap that I see between rich and =
poor in=20
the world is very much connected with who pays rent for the ground they =
stand=20
on, and who receives that rent (or alternatively, owns their home and so =
doesn't=20
have to pay it). Enclosures of common land have in the past been a great =
source=20
of poverty for the masses.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">It's interesting that the Pentateuch =
devises a=20
very elaborate system to give every family an inalienable inheritance of =
land,=20
and to return it to its owner in the Year of Jubilee every fifty years. =
That may=20
have been impractical also, but it shows a concern that goes back to =
antiquity=20
that everyone should have a inalienable share in natural =
resources.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">As to the complications of imposing =
such a tax=20
- have you looked at the Income Tax Act lately?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Martin Hattersley<BR>1970-10123-99 =
St.,=20
<BR>EDMONTON AB CANADA<BR>e-mail: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun.com">hattersleyjm@interbaun.com</A>=
</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dwmklinck@shaw.ca href=3D"mailto:wmklinck@shaw.ca">Wallace =
M. Klinck</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dsocialcredit@elistas.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, August 20, 2005 =
12:39=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Fw: RE: =
[socialcredit]=20
  Questions for Ed Dodson -- Wally replies with critique of George by =
W.T.=20
  Symons</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P>Re the ideas of Henry George, I have excerpted the following =
critique by=20
  the British Social Credit writer, W. T. Symons from his book:  =
(PDF=20
  attached)</P>
  <P>The Coming of Community by W. T. Symons </P>
  <P>(London: C. W. Daniel Company, 1931, pp. 150-61)</P>
  <P> </P>
  <P>(B) SOCIOLOGICAL </P>
  <P>THE TAXATION OF LAND VALUES </P>
  <P>ARGUMENTATIVE NOTES </P>
  <P>To describe private property in land as the root cause of human=20
  disabilities to-day is to deny the element of Time and the stream of =
dynamic=20
  expansion from the spirit in Man to the outer world. It is to ascribe =
to=20
  humanity the static quality of the animal creation. </P>
  <P>It is true that the power of the few over the many, the alienation =
of the=20
  many from the common birthright of all men, was partly accomplished by =
means=20
  of private ownership in natural resources, in the stuff of the earth; =
but with=20
  every addition to man's conquest over natural forces, every step away =
from the=20
  pastoral stage of human development, the centrality of that wrong has =
been=20
  shifted. The discovery and application of electricity has removed a =
vast field=20
  of communal right from the land altogether; the heaped inventions that =

  supersede the personal labour of man and counter the cycle of the =
seasons; the=20
  devices that hasten maturity and arrest decay, by application of =
artificial=20
  heat to growth and of artificial cold to perishable products of the =
earth; and=20
  above them all the passing of power from <I>ownership </I>of the earth =
to=20
  creation and destruction of the tokens by which its value is =
expressed. These=20
  have carried the 'root' back through the material to the immaterial, =
and have=20
  presented this age with a new, unprecedented and transcendent =
circumstance:=20
  <I>Faith in man </I>=96Real Credit=96is now the focus of world power, =
and no=20
  longer ownership of the earth upon which man lives. The root question =
of our=20
  day is: who shall exploit the faith of mankind in the continuance of =
its own=20
  processes? Shall this total value=96the modern equivalent of the =
primitive=20
  value, the earth=96be converted into financial credit and used by =
mankind for=20
  mankind, or shall it continue to be exploited by the successors to the =
owners=20
  of the earth, who, with masterly subtlety, have converted the earth =
and the=20
  whole field of human endeavour into <I>financial credit </I>based upon =
Real=20
  Credit, and by this device have reduced the world to a private =
preserve for=20
  the sport of a giddy, fantastic control over the whole blossoming of =
man's=20
  irresistible fertility; control but not ownership, for to them =
ownership is=20
  anathema. </P>
  <P>*****</P>
  <P>Money <I>is </I>power over other men, because it has become =
essential to=20
  exchange of commodities and property of all kinds, and because it can =
be=20
  created and destroyed by the stroke of a pen, and is <I>not </I>a =
commodity.=20
  If money then is both the means of exchange and the power to call or =
refrain=20
  from calling real wealth into being, it contains the whole possibility =
of=20
  man's movement over the surface of the earth, with all the development =
of=20
  human variety that has flowed from that movement. Man by this device =
is=20
  relieved from the necessity of standing upon one spot: his labour =
there may be=20
  converted into tokens exchangeable elsewhere. He need not follow one =
avocation=20
  from birth to death. His labour is cumulative in fact, and may be =
stored in=20
  tokens, and used at his leisure to explore not only the earth but his =
own=20
  mind. The genius of civilisation consists in creation of something =
that=20
  <I>survives </I>the day's toil or the season's produce, something that =
is=20
  <I>not </I>the land, that is not his who labours. It is the common =
overflow of=20
  all labour, not merely labour of the moment or labour measured by =
time, but=20
  labour in that other dimension=96intensity, whereof the fruit, in =
mechanical=20
  invention and in the arts, accumulates and constitutes the cultural=20
  inheritance of mankind. The alienation of the entire cultural =
inheritance, of=20
  which the land is only the groundwork, is the root of modern distress. =
The=20
  manna from heaven which must be consumed each day is now the psychic =
energy=20
  that each day produces, and the thwarting of that energy is the evil =
that is=20
  breaking the world in pieces. </P>
  <P>It is vain to object that any man reaps where he has not sown. All =
men so=20
  reap and cannot do otherwise; their labour of to-day is but the =
finger-tip to=20
  the energy of the whole body of the race. Privilege is universal. To =
curtail=20
  the excesses of privilege=96and that in one direction only=96instead =
of expanding=20
  the limitless possibilities won by the whole torrent of man's soul, is =
to deny=20
  the conquest of the ages. In political terms it is to aid Conservatism =
in its=20
  rigid terror of expansion, in its rejection of all human fulness by =
denial of=20
  human achievement. In economic terms it is to foster the scarcity =
theory and=20
  bow to the subjection of all the realities of life to the token =
(money)=20
  system. Every man is the involuntary inheritor of the whole past, =
whatever the=20
  difference between men in the degree of their enjoyment of that=20
  inheritance.</P>
  <P>***** </P>
  <P>It is necessary to abandon the conception of 'earning a living' as =
the test=20
  of human virtue, and to accept the full implication of the fact that a =

  'living' has been won=96won with such overwhelming abundance that the =
evil=20
  forces of the world are expended in preventing plenty from reaching =
and=20
  fulfilling the great unsatisfied physical needs of mankind. The moral =
idea of=20
  service no longer requires emphasis on the physical plane. 'Earning a =
living,'=20
  in the sense of industrial employment, could easily become the =
privilege of a=20
  highly-skilled few, leaving the majority free to engage in =
<I>occupations=20
  </I>of infinite variety, whereby they might contribute vastly more to =
the=20
  unfolding of human destiny than could conceivably be attained by =
limiting the=20
  idea of world service to participation in the provision of its =
primitive=20
  necessities. The barrier laid across this human progression is that of =
the=20
  Token erected supreme over the Substance. <I>That </I>barrier needs =
the=20
  concentrated direction of the whole weight of the human tide to burst =
it. But=20
  by its removal all communal values, including land, could be returned =
to the=20
  community easily and continuously. </P><I>
  <P>November </I>1926. </P>
  <P>*****</P>
  <P>The "Single Tax" (so called because it is presumed that the whole =
revenue=20
  required by the State could be raised by the one levy) consists of the =

  proposal that all land should be taxed to the full amount of its =
"economic=20
  rent," exclusive of all improvements. The underlying idea that private =

  ownership of land has "no more foundation in morality or reason than =
ownership=20
  of air or sunlight" (1. <I>Encyclo. Britt</I>: Article on Henry =
George) is=20
  common ground. To Henry George falls the honour of having first worked =
out the=20
  proposal to give effect by this method of taxation to the equal right =
of all=20
  men to the use of the earth. The levy proposed by him was to be based =
upon the=20
  figure paid annually to the existing owner as rent, and it was assumed =
that=20
  the rent paid represents at any given time the highest price the land =
will=20
  fetch. "Nothing made by man would be taxed at all." (2. <I>Ibid</I>.) =
</P>
  <P>The theory is attractive in its ideal justice and in its =
simplicity. It has=20
  drawn widespread attention from all over the world, especially amongst =

  English-speaking people. But even at the time it was promulgated, =
1879, the=20
  complication of modern mechanical invention, and the intensive =
exploitation of=20
  the earth, made separation of 'improvements' from the land itself a =
matter of=20
  extreme difficulty. Two critics in particular=96one contemporary and =
one of the=20
  present day=96are worth quotation because neither can be supposed to =
be hostile=20
  to the underlying intention. Taussig writes: </P>
  <P>"One fundamental obstacle is, as regards agricultural land, the =
difficulty=20
  of measuring the investment made in the soil and the normal return on =
it. Rent=20
  is not earmarked as a separate return=96is inextricably mixed with the =
complex=20
  processes of tilling the soil and maintaining it." (3. F. W. Taussig, =
Ph.D.,=20
  LL.D., Prof. Of Economics, Harvard University, in "Principles of =
Economics,"=20
  Vol. II, p.80.) </P>
  <P>And again=96 </P>
  <P>"The whole institution of private property would need to be =
overhauled=96in=20
  equity=96if this sort of proposal were put through. Land at its =
existing value=20
  cannot be treated on different principles from those applied to other =
kinds of=20
  property." (4. <I>Ibid</I>., Vol. II, p. 107.) </P>
  <P>Dr. Hugh Dalton, Labour M.P. for Camberwell and Reader in Commerce =
at the=20
  London School of Economics, raises a series of practical points tha t =
have to=20
  be faced. </P>
  <P>He writes: </P>
  <P>"=96two grave objections to a single tax (on land). The first is =
that it=20
  would not, in most modern communities, bring in enough revenue to =
balance the=20
  public accounts. The second is that it would be a very bad =
distribution of the=20
  burden of taxation. For a millionaire who owned no land would pay no =
taxes,=20
  while a poor man who had invested all his savings in the purchase of =
his house=20
  would pay in taxation a considerable portion of his income." (5. =
"Principles=20
  of Public Finance," Hugh Dalton, M.A., D.Sc. Econ., p. 42) </P>
  <P>"The argument that the incidence of a tax on the value of land, as =
distinct=20
  from improvements, falls entirely on the landowners, assumes that the =
latter=20
  is already securing the highest rent that he can from his land. Where =
he is=20
  not doing so one of the effects of the imposition of a new tax, or the =

  increase of an existing tax, may be to make him 'look sharply to his =
rents and=20
  take in the slack.' In this case part of the incidence will be upon =
the=20
  occupier. </P>
  <P>" ... The practical valuation of land, as distinct from =
improvements, is=20
  often very difficult ... " </P>
  <P>"The occupier of a building, if engaged in trade, may be able to =
shift part=20
  of the incidence ... on to the purchasers of his products." (6. =
<I>Ibid</I>.,=20
  p. 61 and 62.) </P>
  <P></P>
  <P>These practical objections have been accentuated to an extreme =
degree as=20
  'improvements,' in the widest sense, have rapidly outrun the value of =
the=20
  land, under the stimulus of mechanical power; the whole balance of the =

  argument has been changed by the creation of entirely new communal =
values,=20
  those arising from discoveries and inventions of all kinds that lessen =
the=20
  demand for direct labour on 'land.' The value of all such =
'improvements'=20
  should be credited to the community as soon as the original inventors =
and=20
  makers have been rewarded. The <I>principle </I>enunciated remains=20
  unassailable, but its application, literally, to land would be =
conclusive and=20
  sufficient only in a primitive community; its application to land =
alone, were=20
  it possible without a cataclysm of evil consequences, would =
undoubtedly=20
  mitigate the pressure of poverty, even in a modern community. But the=20
  unavoidable injustice of its incidence to those who happen to be =
holders of=20
  such property to-day, and the immense disturbance of the 'collateral,' =
largely=20
  represented by deeds of land and buildings, held by Banks as security =
for=20
  loans and overdrafts to social and industrial enterprises that would =
result,=20
  compel a new analysis. Land in this country would be thrown wholesale =
upon the=20
  State; and all who had power to do so would withdraw and invest =
elsewhere,=20
  thus weakening the already diminished attractiveness of the land and =
reducing=20
  the return from its taxation. To propose solution of the acute modern =
social=20
  distress by this means, is to fail to observe that a considerable part =
of=20
  agricultural land, in this country particularly, constitutes not an =
asset to=20
  the owner but a liability, and that money obtained by investment or =
labour in=20
  other fields has to be brought in to enable the owner to meet the =
barest=20
  charges of up-keep. This is not natural or right, for ultimate value =
is truly=20
  said to be in 'land,' but it indicates that the centre of gravity has =
shifted,=20
  that direct attack upon ownership of land to-day would not only fail =
to=20
  achieve justice, it would leave the greater part of the modern =
economic evil=20
  untouched. </P>
  <P>The reason of this is not immediately apparent; it has to be sought =
in the=20
  ascendency of the tokens of wealth over the realities of wealth. In =
addition=20
  to the new orientation of the physical facts, this overwhelming =
circumstance=20
  has arisen, through development, parallel with the creation of =
fabulous=20
  communal values, of the modern money system. That system puts money =
into=20
  circulation at the time of production, lends it for payment of wages =
and=20
  dividends to the makers, but when the reclaimed land, the new machine, =
the new=20
  building, the new process=96whatever it may be=96ceases to be itself =
the product=20
  of labour for which remuneration is paid, and passes into the service =
of=20
  further production the system fails to cancel the money debt by the =
new wealth=20
  created. (7. "The Banker creates money for industrial purposes, or =
withdraws=20
  it, as he desires ... The so-called captains of industry are more and =
more=20
  becoming puppets of the bankers. No nation in its senses would =
continue in=20
  such harness."=96Mr. John Wheatley in <I>The New Leader</I>, December =
31st,=20
  1926.) The debt is carried forward into the new period, and the =
landowner, the=20
  farmer, the manufacturer, the municipal or State enterprise, is =
compelled,=20
  under threat of bankruptcy, to claim the costs of the capital =
'improvement'=20
  from the public in the prices of articles of consumption, and , to =
maintain=20
  these increased prices long after the =91improvement' has in fact been =
paid for=20
  by the community, and the money so paid has been spent upon the bodily =
needs=20
  of those who created the addition to the community's wealth and =
received it in=20
  exchange for their labour. </P>
  <P>*****</P>
  <P>The difficulty we have to meet is radical. The financial system =
ordains not=20
  only that exchanges shall be effected by means of money, it also =
prescribes=20
  that money shall not be put into circulation except in payment =
(through wages,=20
  salaries or dividends) for some expenditure of effort upon =
<I>production=20
  </I>(in the widest sense); and that every payment so made shall be =
included in=20
  <I>prices</I>, through which it is collected back again, returned to =
its=20
  source (the banks) and cancelled. In conformity with this principle, =
the money=20
  withdrawn from land-owners by taxation of land values would in fact, =
be=20
  cancelled out of circulation. This would be accomplished directly, by=20
  repayment of Government debt to the banks or the banks' private =
borrowers, and=20
  consequent cancellation in bank ledgers; and indirectly, by the =
resultant=20
  'contraction of credit,' the effect of which would be felt in lower=20
  remuneration to those engaged in the work of the community upon a =
'cost of=20
  living' basis. The lower remuneration would inevitably reach a point =
of=20
  equality with the new (lower) level of prices that would result from =
the=20
  smaller quantity of money in cilculation. Thus the advantages of =
lifting the=20
  present claims of the landlord from production costs would be =
nullified by the=20
  financial system. </P>
  <P>***** </P>
  <P>The system of thought and scale of values, which find expression in =
the=20
  financial system, are so fundamental that no solution of this Age's =
great=20
  material problems can lie in the realm of negation. A positive =
transcendence=20
  of idea and of technique is essential. We cannot solve our problem by =
the=20
  achievement of a reform which would=96if completely =
successful=96reestablish=20
  Arcadia. There must indeed be Arcadia, if only for replenishment of =
the earth=20
  with virile human beings=96and for simple happiness. But the perilous=20
  achievement of men in leaving the breast of mother earth and =
adventuring in=20
  realms of nervous intensity, divorced from Arcadian existence, is not =
to be=20
  interpreted as perversion. A <I>primitive </I>simplicity of life does =
not=20
  accord with the flowering of the intellect. Variety of food, clothing, =

  surroundings=96is essential to the sensitive modern, and with it a =
<I>new order=20
  </I>of simplicity, consisting in harmonious complexity. Art affords =
guidance=20
  on the dangerous road from <I>mere </I>addition of wants and powers to =
a=20
  poised mastery, in which form, colour, sound, texture, in infinite =
variety,=20
  become at once expression of the new soul and solvent of the =
inevitable stress=20
  accompanying her heightened sensibility.</P>
  <P></P>
  <P>This condition is the result, at its deepest, of the altogether new =

  assertion of human value, and of unmeasurable possibility in the =
individual,=20
  which is the essence of Christianity. It constitutes a new world, with =
new=20
  centres of gravity. It has necessitated the development of money, the =
token,=20
  to utmost flexibility=96that the exchange of goods should be =
facilitated to the=20
  utmost. But men's powers have outrun their wisdom, and have called =
forth a=20
  subtle, overwhelming resistance. The token has become the check upon =
man's=20
  genius, irresistible in its perversion. But as the seed falls into the =
earth,=20
  and roots strongly before ascending again into stem and flower at the =
call of=20
  the sun, so it was necessary that the tremendous assertion of the =
individual=20
  will-to-power, should work in the earth first to lift the 'curse' of =
Adam. The=20
  material fruits of that intensification must be freely distributed =
amongst the=20
  generations that have come to birth amidst its prodigality. Springing =
from the=20
  earth, based upon the earth, but harnessing the lightning, =
precipitating from=20
  the atmosphere the chemical replenishment of the earth's fertility; =
and=20
  releasing to his service the imprisoned sun that shone in past =
aeons=96man has=20
  given a new meaning to 'land.' </P>
  <P>The lightening of toil, made possible by transformation of the very =
earth=20
  itself into the marvels of mechanical contrivance=96driven by solar =
energy to=20
  produce the work of a thousand unaided men=96must be made to serve the =
purposes=20
  of <I>all</I>, inheritors as we all are of the prodigious labours and=20
  invention of the human race. The service must be without =
discrimination, as=20
  the rain falls upon the just and the unjust. </P>
  <P>We live under a system which denies this, and works with superhuman =
cunning=20
  to prevent that consummation not only by imprisoning the aspiring =
human soul=20
  in his mere material achievement; but more, by pressing him back, in=20
  frustration and denial even of his conquests on <I>that </I>plane. So=20
  successfully has this restraint been imposed, that even now the call =
for=20
  'economy,' the demand to 'work harder and consume less,' the =
heartbreaking=20
  scarcity,=96are believed to be expressions of natural necessity, that =
may be=20
  alleviated here and there by philanthropic effort, and borne, with =
gruesome=20
  suffering, by inculcation of 'morality' in the name of 'economic law.' =
</P>
  <P>The characteristic is that of a total reversal not of a partial=20
  misdirection. They shall <I>not </I>have "life more abundant." Nothing =
less=20
  than the antithesis of the true values, and inversion of the essential =

  instrument of man's florescence, would serve to enthrone the power =
that=20
  arrests the world's progress and breaks man's spirit. For this reason, =
nothing=20
  less than concentration of human energy upon the establishment of true =
values=20
  in the new world, and the erection of the material instrument right =
way up,=20
  will serve to provide the physical basis upon which the freedom of man =
can be=20
  preserved. The greater includes the less. The restoration of land =
values to=20
  the people will be achieved=96and can only be achieved=96by =
restoration of power=20
  to the realities of world production, and imposition of servitude upon =
the=20
  mere tokens of those realities. The matter is spiritual and technical; =
not=20
  moral and political. It is for all to see and demand, and for a =
skilled few to=20
  work out, in conformity with the common vision and the universal =
desire, with=20
  no other criterion of success than fulfilment of that vision and =
satisfaction=20
  of that demand. The next step will not be disclosed until this one is =
taken.=20
  </P><I>
  <P>November </I>1926, <I>February </I>and <I>May </I>1927. </P>
  <P> </P></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3Dhattersleyjm@interbaun.com=20
    href=3D"mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun.com">Martin Hattersley</A> =
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dsocialcredit@elistas.com=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> =
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 19, 2005 =
12:38=20
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Fw: RE: =
[socialcredit]=20
    Questions for Ed Dodson</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV>I was thinking rather of putting together a demonstration game =
that=20
    would teach Georgists how important the monetary system is in =
influencing=20
    what happens in the economy, and remind Social Crediters that, =
whether in=20
    rents and site values, or in the issue of a monetary medium, "the =
private=20
    monopolization of publicly created values" is an matter that needs =
to be=20
    controlled in the interest of the community.</DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV>I once revised the rules of Monopoly so that the Banker was an =
actual=20
    banker, charging interest on loans, and playing favorites among the =
players=20
    to help one and hinder another, all with the idea of becoming the =
monopolist=20
    himself. It was the most depressing game I have ever played, as the =
economy=20
    spiralled into depression, with cut price property sales, and =
everything=20
    becoming controlled by the bank.</DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV>What was most interesting, when I tried this on another =
occasion with a=20
    group from Mensa, was the gleam of revelation that spread on =
people's faces=20
    when they completed the accounting form that created a bank loan, =
and=20
    learned for the first time how money came into being!</DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV>Martin Hattersley, 1970 10123 99St.,<BR>EDMONTON  AB  =
Canada=20
    T5J 3H1<BR>Phone (780)423-4081:Fax (780)425-5247<BR>e-mail: <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:jmartinh@shaw.ca">jmartinh@shaw.ca</A><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><A href=3D"mailto:martinh@edmc.net">
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Mesnh@edmc</A>sage =
-----=20
      </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
      <A title=3DAdavans@aol.com =
href=3D"mailto:Adavans@aol.com">Adavans@aol.com</A>=20
      </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dsocialcredit@elistas.com=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> =
</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 19, =
2005 2:11=20
      AM</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Fw: RE: =
[socialcredit]=20
      Questions for Ed Dodson</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=3Drole_document face=3DArial =
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
      <DIV>Martin Hattersley wrote<BR><BR><STRONG>"George, of course, =
did not go=20
      into the money system in any depth at all. But <BR>the game of =
"Monopoly"=20
      (founded on an earlier "Landlord Game" designed to <BR>illustrate =
Georgist=20
      principles), certainly illustrates the tendency of the <BR>rental =
of sites=20
      to concentrate ownership and bankrupt the majority of <BR>society. =

      <U>Varying the rules so that the Bank is paid rent by those who =
land=20
      <BR>on mortgaged property might make the bridge we need between =
George and=20
      <BR>Douglas."</U></STRONG></DIV>
      <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
      <DIV>Mr. Hattersley, I certainly have wanted to see a bridge =
between=20
      Social Credit and Georgist thought, and I'm happy to see an =
advocate of=20
      Social Credit suggest where that bridge may be =
situated.  I=20
      wonder if you could clarify and expand upon the underlined =
portion of=20
      your comments above.  Are you possibly suggesting some kind =
of=20
      cooperative land banking such as has been proposed by Shann =
Turnbull at=20
      COG?</DIV>
      <DIV> </DIV>
      <DIV>Regards</DIV>
      <DIV>Alan Avans </DIV>
      <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
      <DIV><STRONG> </DIV>
      <DIV><BR></STRONG><BR></DIV></FONT>
      =
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