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Hi Chick:
You state:
"Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the
life."
The man/God - Jesus - is a necessity to bring man to God.
Without Jesus,and the trinity, man is lost searching for the Truth," can only be
assumed
to be true if you are Jim or of the same mindset as
Jim."
Let's explore this statement further, and it has to
do with the nature of the truth. Now a half truth is not the
truth. You further went on to define the truth with the
following statement:
" Deng Ming Dao says about Truth: "There are three
levels of truth; Experience, reasoning, and knowing. All other
assertions should be
> rejected.
The first two definitions of the truth can be
rejected outright. Not one of us gathers enough experience to know the
truth. We are limited by perceptions, age, geography .........
Reason alone cannot find the truth as is demonstrated by Godel's theorem:
The only thing that can be proven with absolute certainty is that nothing can be
proven with absolute certainty.
The last definition is more intriguing.
Knowledge is defined by Chick as:
"There is a third type of
truth that is
different from these two.
This is a way of direct spiritual knowing.
Wholly internal, this mode is the direct experiencing of truth
through the opening of higher faculties.
Meditation gives one perceptions of
absolute certainty. There is no doubt of need of other
investigations; this knowledge is beyond words,
descriptions, and
rationalization. In fact one must be careful not to let the fruits of
one's meditation pass into the realm of rationalization. This will subject
you to the relativity of external truths and ruin your confidence. To
avoid doubts and conflicting opinions, followers of Tao keep their
revelations secret. Then what is known directly is absolutely
yours."
This method of obtaining Truth Kierkegaard
describes as Socratic (it is also the method of the Buddhist). To
Socrates, the truth was already in us, but we have forgotten what we
already knew, and it was only a matter of recollection of the truth. This
means that the truth lies in all of us waiting to be remembered if we focus our
attention towards our inner truth. In other words, one become one with
truth (God) by becoming that truth himself in a state of "nirvana".
The contrary position is that man is born in error
(sin), and the truth does not exist in man, but exists outside of him. In
this event, a teacher becomes of the outmost importance, because without a
reference point, there can be no truth. In this instance the teacher
(Jesus Christ) must be the Truth itself (God). The Truth which transcends
time must enter time in order to teach those in time who are in error, and the
Truth then becomes a paradox.
The question then becomes is man capable of
becoming the Truth (God) by recollection of what one forgot, or is it necessary
for God to enter time to teach man (i.e. God becomes immanent).
One believes that man is less than God and needs
salvation, while the other belief system dictates that one is equal with God and
has God "in him".
Lastly, Chick states:
"About ten years or so ago, a wealthy American businessman by the name of
Templeton, and an extremely strong Christian, made an offer to anyone in the
world, Ten Million Dollars, if they could prove to him, and he was prepared to
make it public, that there is a God. To date no one has ever even
attempted to make the claim, let alone to prove the claim."
Of course this all depends on what one means by "proof". If one asks
that one prove something beyond all doubt, then Godel's theorem states that is
an impossibility and the question itself becomes absurd.
If one wants proof of God, one need only look at the universe itself, and
it's elaborate design. Only a fool would chance upon the Pyramids and
assumed they came into being by "a series of random mutations".
Here is the ontological proof of God given by St. Anshelm:
Since God is the being than whom no greater can be conceived, and
since it is better to exist in fact than merely in the imagination, God must
exist in fact.
or
Since whatever exists must have a cause, and since a cause depends upon the
power to cause, and since God is that power, God exists.
These of course are all deductive proofs and are tautological.
Take care,
Jim
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 9:01
AM
Subject: [socialcredit] The mind of
God
> The mind of God
>
>
>
> This is a good
topic. Before we can discuss anything in relation to our
> belief,
we must first of all determine what that belief is. Before we can
>
determine the mind and mindset of God, we must first determine, is there a
> God.
>
>
>
> Just because your book or my
book says this or that about God, or that this
> person or that was God,
or what that person or God said, does not make it
> so. You or I
could make the same claims as is claimed in the holy book.
> Just because
there is this number of people that believe in this God because
> of what
the teacher/Priest says or because that is what the book says, or
> that
number of people believes in that God, because that is what those
>
teachers say or that book says, does not mean that there is a God. That
> makes it a belief. That belief therefore must be founded on an
assumption.
> Assuming this to be true then this is what is said and that
being said, that
> is true. Assumptions, perceptions and
belief.
>
>
>
> If we are to agree with the wisdom of
Kierkegaard, "a person cannot possibly
> seek what he knows, and, just as
impossibly, he cannot seek what he does not
> know, for what he knows he
cannot seek, since he knows it, and what he does
> not know he cannot
seek,
> because, after all, he does not even know what he is supposed to
seek," as
> Jim points out, then we also can not lay claim to my belief
or your belief
> as being the truth, or the only truth. Therefore,
the truth to which you or
> I may lay claim to, is and can only be
assumed to be the truth, from your or
> my perspective.
>
>
>
> About ten years or so ago, a wealthy American businessman by
the name of
> Templeton, and an extremely strong Christian, made an offer
to anyone in the
> world, Ten Million Dollars, if they could prove to
him, and he was prepared
> to make it public, that there is a God.
To date no one has ever even
> attempted to make the claim, let alone to
prove the claim.
>
>
>
> Jim says: "In other words,
the human mind has no way of obtaining the truth.
> If the
> human
mind was already in truth, then there would be no need to seek it
> (i.e.
we would know it all already), but if we are in error, and seek the
>
truth, then this again is an impossibility because we don't even know where
> to begin."
>
>
>
> Jim asks; "Can the truth
be learned?
>
>
>
> Deng Ming Dao says about Truth:
"There are three levels of truth;
> Experience, reasoning, and
knowing. All other assertions should be
> rejected.
>
>
>
> The first type of truth is experience. Once you
have experienced something,
> you know it. No person can persuade
you otherwise.
>
>
>
> The second type is truth
gained by reasoning. In this case, the truth
> cannot be
immediately verified because the subject is too small (like atomic
>
particles) or too large (like the movement of planets through time) or too
> abstract (like ideas). Something may be true, but its truth is
borne out by
> analysis rather than physical testing.
>
>
>
> Either of these two types of truths has a range of
validity. They are
> relative. Therefore, though truths are
superior to falsehood, opinions,
> beliefs, and superstition, they each
have limits. There is a third type of
> truth that is different
from these two.
>
>
>
> This is a way of direct
spiritual knowing. Wholly internal, this mode is
> the direct
experiencing of truth through the opening of higher faculties.
>
Meditation gives one perceptions of absolute certainty. There is no doubt
> of need of other investigations; this knowledge is beyond words,
> descriptions, and rationalization. In fact one must be careful
not to let
> the fruits of one's meditation pass into the realm of
rationalization. This
> will subject you to the relativity of
external truths and ruin your
> confidence. To avoid doubts and
conflicting opinions, followers of Tao keep
> their revelations
secret. Then what is known directly is absolutely yours."
>
>
>
> Assuming that history has been recorded well and that the
science and the
> research on human behaviour hold some validity, we find
that the human being
> does have an inherent element that must believe in
something beyond the
> self. Therefore most humans seem to be on a
life long quest of
> spirituality. Some stop at a founded religion
and others go on.
>
>
>
> If we take the wisdom of
Kierkegaard and that of the words attributed to
> Jesus, "judge not that
ye may not be judged," we then have no claim to our
> belief being better
or more worthy than any other belief. Therefore we have
> no right
to condemn others in their religion or their religion in the world.
>
Therefore we also have no right, because we probably no little or nothing of
> that religion or that person's thought process, nor where they are at
on
> their spiritual journey, we can not say that we have to be of this
spiritual
> belief or that religious perspective in order to understand
this theory or
> that theory.
>
>
>
> That
being said, what Jim presents, "This is the necessity for the concept
>
of the Trinity - God, or the Word, made flesh. The Truth enters time and
> shows us the way towards the Truth (God).
>
> Jesus said,
"I am the way, the truth, and the life."
>
> The man/God - Jesus -
is a necessity to bring man to God. Without Jesus,
> and the
trinity, man is lost searching for the Truth," can only be assumed
> to
be true if you are Jim or of the same mindset as Jim.
>
>
Chick
>
>
>
>
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