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Re: [socialcredit] Kenneth
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Re: Last words? [G W. Curti
Re: Fundamental Tr cymric
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Re: [socialcredit] Kenneth
Re: [socialcredit] Kenneth
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
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Re: [socialcredit] Jim
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
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Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
Re: [socialcredit] Kenneth
Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
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Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
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Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
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Wal-Mart Triumpho
what is risked? Triumpho
"distribution" Triumpho
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
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Lamsa william_
Re: [socialcredit] keith wi
Re: [socialcredit] cymric
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Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
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distribution, magn Triumpho
Re: [socialcredit] Kenneth
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Iraq: governments marco sa
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Subject:Re: [socialcredit] Joe on Wal-Mart, Discount and CIR
Date:Wednesday, August 31, 2005  22:56:36 (-0400)
From:Keith Wilde <keithwilde @.........ca>

I am sure you are right here, on both points, Martin.  Chretien's restriction is certainly a step in the right direction.  But it seems to me that there are lots of other ways in which money power is able to dominate parties--and especially the government.  I heard an anecdote the other day from a colleague who got it from a cabinet minister of the Trudeau era: Trudeau was on the point of trying to exert the force of government above the money power, and the bankers lobby simply informed him that if he tried it they would have him denounced as a "communist" and that would be the end of his power to govern.  Guess who blinked. 
 
Keith
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Joe on Wal-Mart, Discount and CIR

Isn't the corruption of the political system that you observe the direct result of the way political parties are financed? Certainly that's my take on where Conservatism is taking Alberta.
 
In that regard, I think that Chretien, before he left, made a rather smart and courageous move (and threw a curve at Paul Martin, his successor) by prohibiting Corporations from contributing more than a very limited sum to political parties. It could hurt the Liberal cause severely - though one can always finance one's party by borrowing from a bank, and "he who pays the piper calls the tune"!
 
Martin Hattersley, 1970 10123 99St.,
EDMONTON  AB  Canada T5J 3H1
Phone (780)423-4081:Fax (780)425-5247
e-mail: jmartinh@shaw.ca,
hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
e-mail: martinh@edmc.net
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Joe on Wal-Mart, Discount and CIR

A very interesting prospect, Joe.  Sufficiently so that I will camp on your bandwagon for a round or two. 
 
Round one:  Next door in the tar sands.  It is my understanding that the resource has been virtually if not absolutely and irrevocably given away to the developing corporations (i.e. the oil companies), on the understanding that the benefit to Alberta and to Canada ("unemployed eastern bastards") is jobs.  As the world price of crude goes up, so does the attraction of extraction, and so do tensions within Canada, as noted on news the past couple of days. Analysis of crude prices in the New York Times over the past week has focused on a lengthy analysis last Sunday on the Saudi Arabian resource (featuring a Saudi expert) and concluding that expectations of increased flow from that source--long a mainstay of optimistic U.S. energy forecasters, simply cannot and will not be met.  That, plus the failure of an Iraqi government to come together, with the consequent likelihood that its oil resources will come under control of Iranian Shiites, and the belligerence of the upstart Chavez in Venezuela does seem to portend long term high and rising prices for Canadian fossil fuel consumers.  "Hey! Isn't it our oil?"  "Sorry, loser;  get your ass back in gear and make those credit card payments!"  One of the hot items on the NYT this past week-end has been an editorial by a staff journalist who has a vacation home in Quebec where he hobnobs with the hoi poloi of corporate America and Canada.  His message:  back off on the belligerence over NAFTA and soft wood;  What if the Canadians decide to hit us where it would really hurt and get anal retentive about oil exports?" 
 
Is this quite plausible scenario likely to wake up a lot of Canadians to consider the possibility that the government is in fact our enemy, having gone over to the side of the real power controllers?  Might we dream of Harper and Layton exercising some real leadership and vowing together to lead a dictatorship of real democracy to its lobbyists, bureaucrats, central bank and financial regulators?  Well, maybe, but I doubt that the campaign could get as far as an election before the remnants of the U.S. Army showed up to protect the property of Americans and make Canada safe for freedom.  One of my American friends sent me an article today by Pat Buchanan calling G.W. Bush a traitor to his country and oath of office for not having repelled the invasion of Arizona and New Mexico by Mexicans and other Latinos.  A real threat, compared to the phony one against Saddam Hussein!  As the U.S. comes unraveled, we will become an increasingly tempting and easy mark for its power brokers. 
 
Round two:  Katrina.  Although it is now being tut-tutted as an extreme case of short-term planning solutions, New Orleans is not unique among North American or world cities in designing and implementing urban infrastructure to protect and enhance the collective life of its citizens/residents.  Cities are an expression of community, of collective effort, and much of the infrastructure is financed and paid for collectively.  This fact of modern life is a negation of the atomistic rationality of standard economics for the past century, as sharply pointed out by the revolt of the young French graduate students who founded Post-Autistic Economics (I believe I circulated refrence to a handy account of this from May Harper's recently).  There is growing recognition among Heterodox Economists (another grouping) that there is more to cultural heritage and productive capacity than individual actors.  Society is important.  This is the primary theme of the Society for Advancement of Socio-Economics, for example, spurred into being by Amitai Etzioni, among others, who also took a focus on Communitarian Studies (I don't recall the formal title of this grouping).  Honorary members of the SASE board of directors include venerables like J.K. Galbraith and other economists whose names don't come back on the instant.  Google it.
 
My point here is that the cultural heritage includes a growing component of what public finance and welfare economics literature used to define as quintessential "public goods".  Privatization of public utilities has produced many disaster stories in the past couple of decades, with taxpayers now forced to pick of the bill to pay the dismissal costs of scoundrels, when formerly all they had to do was pay modest utility bills.  Furthermore, municipalities are forced to go to their ratepayers for financing of desperately needed infrastructure investment, in sewers, water supply, medical services, etc. and are resentful of senior governments that sit on the national revenues and creditability.  I met around a boardroom lunchtable recently with some local politicians and their small business colleagues and noted with interest their willingness to listen to accounts of how Bank of Canada used to control credit (monetary) issue and keep production going without inflation--during wartime.  Then after war, it is payback time.  An interesting connection, war and debt finance.  Why does the Government now do its bank borrowing from private banks rather than the BoC? (Obviously to help CIBC pay back the hit on its latest mega-folly, Enron.)  It collects taxes to pay interest to banks instead of paying it to the BoC--of which it is sole shareholder. Shouldn't municipal politicians and citizens be getting a break from government's constitutional ability to borrow at lower rates of interest than banks charge, by having loans arranged from the central bank. That was the rationale of the activists who arranged the luncheon, and their modest audience were receptive to exploring further.  Might this be a source of further pain that will tip citizens out of their apathetic ignorance?  Even in Alberta, where medical and health care services are being disrupted and curtailed in the name of private "efficiency" ???????????????????????????????????????????????  
 
Keith
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Wal-Mart, Retail Discount and CIR

Hi Keith,
 
Douglas discusses Japan in the PDF file Wally provided, "The Douglas System of Social Credit", which was a transcript of his presentation to the Alberta Agricultural Commitee in 1934.  I seem to recall seeing some other, similar, comments from him elsewhere, though I'd have to go back and look just where now. 
 
In answer to your question:-
 
"It does bring up the further question of whether it is conceivable to implement the Douglas solution in one country, even if its citizens did get themselves roused sufficiently to take over their government.  What then is a positive strategy for advancing the agenda--aside from the educational program advocated by Vic Bridger, as we have discussed?"
 
I would say that would very much depend on the situation that 'prompts' such an attempt.  There are a lot of possibilities.  Imagine, for instance, what could happen if the current 'softwood lumber' dispute between Canada and the USA remained unresolved.  As it may well be.  
 
Suppose the now very small number of very large Canadian forest companies that dominate 80% or more of that trade currently, woke up one morning and  found the USA 'lumber lobby' had managed to get an effective increase in the current tariff.  One arranged in a manner that thwarts their efforts to lower 'unit cost' and beat the present duty.   One that renders  their current course of increased concentration of ownership and facilities completely unprofitable.   That the US tariff did actually exclude all but the necessary 29% or so 'shortfall' the US has each year in its own softwood lumber production, no matter how 'efficient' the Canadian mills got, no matter even if the various provincial governments 'gave' them the Crown timber resource for free.  Suppose concurrent with that the efforts to find 'other markets' failed to bear fruit. 
 
Suddenly there's a very interesting situation.  Here we have on the one hand the largest and best mills in the world, ones that have done everything in vogue in current 'economic' thinking to survive and prosper, and none of it works anymore.  At some point, I would think, the fallout from a 'disaster' like that, if it occured somewhat suddenly, (which it just could), might prompt some thinking amongst the general public as to what really goes on.  They might just ask 'WHY', if our ancestors came to this country to ''live life more abundantly'' amongst "abundant" natural resources that enabled them to do just that, do we now have to submit to paying 'world price' to access any of them?  A 'world price' set high enough to deny increasing numbers of us the very things our ancestors came here for in the first place. 
 
Joe
 

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