In-Reply-To: <1c2.2f82e5d1.30403676@aol.com>
Dear alan.
Those were not my words.
But I am interested in what you have written :-)
Ken.
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Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 05:10:14 EDT
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Subject: Re: [socialcredit] The Trinity
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Kenneth Palmerton wrote:"The conversion of Constantine was sealed by his
victory at the Milvian Bridge, having earlier been introduced to the
Christian faith by his mother, Helena. As sole emperor, he ordered the
conversion of
the official Augustinian state cult to Christianity: The Augustinian
temples became Christian churches, the cult's bishops and priests became
Christian bishops and priests, etc. What we see in the ceremony of
modern liturgical churches is the court ritual of Roman emperors; the
vestments, the dress of upper class Romans. The modern church's
hierarchy the hierarchy of Imperial Rome.
Though three Senators had witnessed the ascension of the Emperor
Augustus to Heaven from his funeral pyre, the orientation of the state
cult had always been more philosophic than religious.
The Trinity of the state cult was derived from Greek philosophy. It
expresses fundamental truth about the nature of God: God the Father who
created us; God the Son, within us; God the Holy Ghost who can help us
combat evil. One God in three Persons."
Please excuse me for not bringing my notes and references to this
discussion. If anyone wants a follow-up with more detail, I'll be happy
to do so within a few days.
List members may be interested in the work of Margaret Barker, a British
academic and Methodist minister whose work is highly favoured by John
Chartre, the Bishop of London. Drawing deeply upon her work on the Book
of Enoch and apocalyptic literature of Judaism, she traces the origins
of Christian liturgy as well as the basics of the trinitarian doctrine
from the religion of Israel prior to Josiah's reforms, the Christian
liturgy being derived from the First Temple. The religion of pre-exilic
and pre-Josiah reform Israel was preseved by Israelite priests who fled
into the Arabian wilderness and whose descendants would form the Qumran
community, the Church, and Islam, all of which in their own way preserve
elements of ancient Israel's temple cult. Barker believes the Divine
Liturgy, particularly the Paschal liturgical practice, to be the fullest
expression of this temple cult.
Barker also has traced Greek philosophical thought to its roots in the
ancient near-east and Egypt, roots which are shared by ancient Israel.
Pythagoras received his education in the mysteries near Mt. Carmel and
the platonists would build upon what they had been taught by Pythagoras,
propounding a trinitarian doctrine.
Obviously Barker finds the whole idea of Christianty's origins being in
some kind of Pauline Hellenism to be highly reductionist. Believing in
"the antiquity of the gospel", I freely admit that I agree with her.
Aside from Barker's researches there is an almost universal myth among
the ancients about a God-Man who would enter combat with chaos, being
killed in the process nevertheless defeating these principalities and
powers through resurrection. This myth is the origin of the notion that
Kings are divine sons of God. With this universal myth was a great body
of prophecy as well, as God had not revealed Godself to Israel alone.
Much of the success of early Christianity can be attributed to
evangelists who persuaded their converts that these prophecies were
fulfilled by Jesus Christ. Paul certainly went through great pains to
demonstrate this point to both Jew and Gentile, comparing and contrasting
the Church under the peaceable Lordship of King Jesus to the Empire under
the authoritarian Lordship of Caesar.
Regards
Alan Avans
Prairie Village KS
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Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
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<DIV>Kenneth Palmerton wrote<STRONG>:"The conversion of Constantine was
seal=ed=20
by his<BR>victory at the Milvian Bridge, having earlier=20
been introduced to the Christian faith by his=20
mother, Helena. As sole emperor, he ordered the
conversion=20of<BR> the official Augustinian state cult to
Christianity: =The=20
Augustinian temples became Christian churches, the cult's
bishops= and=20
priests became Christian bishops and priests, etc. What
we=20=see=20
in the ceremony of modern liturgical churches is the court
ritual==20
of Roman emperors; the vestments, the dress of
upper c=lass=20
Romans. The modern church's hierarchy the hierarchy of
Impe=rial=20
Rome.<BR><BR> Though three Senators had witnessed the ascension=20
of the Emperor Augustus to Heaven from his funeral=20
pyre, <U>the orientation of the state cult had always been=20
more philosophic than religious.<BR><BR> The Trinity of
the=20state cult was derived from Greek philosophy. It
expresses=20fundamental truth about the nature of God:
God the Father w=ho=20
created us; God the Son, within us; God the Holy Ghost who can
he=lp=20
us combat evil. One God in three
Persons."</U></STRONG></DI=V>
<DIV><STRONG><U></U></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV>Please excuse me for not bringing my notes and
references to=20=this=20
discussion. If anyone wants a follow-up with more detail, I'll be
happ=y to=20
do so within a few days. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>List members may be interested in the work of Margaret Barker, a
Britis=h=20
academic and Methodist minister whose work is highly favoured
by John=20 Chartre, the Bishop of London. Drawing deeply
upon her work on t=he=20
Book of Enoch and apocalyptic literature of Judaism, she traces
t=he=20
origins of Christian liturgy as well as the basics of the
trinitarian=20doctrine from the religion of Israel prior to Josiah's
reforms, the Christia=n=20
liturgy being derived from the First Temple. The religion of
pre-exili=c=20
and pre-Josiah reform Israel was preseved by Israelite priests who fled
into= the=20
Arabian wilderness and whose descendants would form the Qumran
community,&nb=sp;=20
the Church, and Islam, all of which in their own way preserve elements=20
of ancient Israel's temple cult. Barker believes the Divine
Liturg=y,=20
particularly the Paschal liturgical practice, to be the fullest expression
o=f=20
this temple cult. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Barker also has traced Greek philosophical thought to its roots in
the=20ancient near-east and Egypt, roots which are shared by
ancient=20Israel. Pythagoras received his education in the mysteries
near Mt. Car=mel=20
and the platonists would build upon what they had been taught by
Pythagoras,==20
propounding a trinitarian doctrine. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Obviously Barker finds the whole idea of Christianty's origins being
in==20
some kind of Pauline Hellenism to be highly reductionist. Believing
in==20
"the antiquity of the gospel", I freely admit that I agree with her. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Aside from Barker's researches there is an almost universal
myth a=mong=20
the ancients about a God-Man who would enter combat with chaos,
being=20killed in the process nevertheless defeating these principalities
and=20powers through resurrection. This myth is the origin
of=20the notion that Kings are divine sons of God. With
this=20universal myth was a great body of prophecy as well, as God had
not=20revealed Godself to Israel alone. Much of the success of early
Christia=nity=20
can be attributed to evangelists who persuaded their converts that
thes=e=20
prophecies were fulfilled by Jesus Christ. Paul certainly went through
great==20
pains to demonstrate this point to both Jew and Gentile, comparing and=20
contrasting the Church under the peaceable Lordship of King
Jesus=20=to=20
the Empire under the authoritarian Lordship of=20
Caesar. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards</DIV>
<DIV>Alan Avans</DIV>
<DIV>Prairie Village KS </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
<p><pre>-------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
You're subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
<p></pre><p>
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