| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Norm Kurland: Plagiarist | | Date: | Saturday, September 3, 2005 09:17:04 (-0400) | | From: | Keith Wilde <keithwilde @.........ca>
|
Sorry, Bill, but I don't get your point here. I can clearly see that there
is a marked difference between the Chalabi proposal and that of Kurland, and
I understand why you much prefer the Chalabi approach. But I do not see how
the charge of plagiarism applies. It seems to have something to do with the
date Norm claims for having spoken to the Senator and articles that appeared
in various news souces, but I fail to see the connections that bear on the
issue of plagiarism. I certainly don't see any incorporation of Douglas
ideas in what Norm is claiming for Kelso?
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: "William B. Ryan" <w_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>; <cogexec@cog.kent.edu>
Cc: <jjs@geonomics.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 8:42 AM
Subject: [socialcredit] Norm Kurland: Plagiarist
> [Norm Kurland posting yesterday] "In a meeting in his
> office on July 14, 2005, I asked Senator George Allen,
> who previously supported the Alaska Plan, to send our
> proposal to top Iraqi officials he knew, as an
> alternative to the Alaska Plan, which was also
> previously supported by Chalabi. Here's the binary
> economic proposal I'm told by the Senator's staff was
> sent out, before we learned from the main editorial in
> the Wall Street Journal of August 17th what appears to
> be a policy reversal by Chalabi."
> ----------------------------------
> -----------------------------------
>
> *Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we
> practice to deceive*
> ----------------
>
> Meeting with Senator Allen, "who previously supported
> the Alaska Plan," on July 14, is it? Sent out by
> Senator Allen's staff, then policy reversal by
> Chalabi, is it?
>
> But the Arabiestrends article that I cited was picked
> up by Google on July 13:---
>
> This is G o o g l e's cache of
> http://www.arabiestrends.com/Business.htm as retrieved
> on Jul 13, 2005 23:28:28 GMT.
> G o o g l e's cache is the snapshot that we took of
> the page as we crawled the web.
> The page may have changed since that time. Click here
> for the current page without highlighting.
> This cached page may reference images which are no
> longer available. Click here for the cached text only.
> To link to or bookmark this page, use the following
> url:
> http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:AaIU47Ufj0wJ:www.arabiestrends.com/Business.htm+%22Fawaz+K.+Saraf%22+Ahmed+Chalabi&hl=en
> ---
>
> This is how the Arabiestrends article on the Web on
> July 13 put it:
>
> "Ahmed Chalabi, a highly controversial figure in Iraqi
> politics, believes the government should create a
> national oil company that collects revenue from the
> development and sale of the country's oil and gas.
> Every citizen would own one non-transferable share in
> the company. The shares would pay dividends to
> citizens, who in turn would pay taxes to the
> government. 'We would make the government reliant on
> the people for its revenue, rather than having an
> independent stream of revenue from the oil,' says
> Sethna, Chalabi's energy policy adviser. 'The
> government will be more responsive to the people, and
> the people will feel that they have a stake in their
> governance.'
>
> "Establishing a tax system in Iraq would be one way to
> sidestep the contentious debates Alaska has faced
> since it first created the Permanent Fund. Alaskans
> pay no state income tax. Oil royalties fund most of
> the state government; this money, for the most part,
> does not come from the Permanent Fund or its earnings.
> Instead, lawmakers can tap the fund's investment
> earnings to pay for the business of government."
> ----------------
>
> The Wall Street Journal on August 17 put it this
> way:--
>
> "The best suggestion we've heard for cutting this
> Gordian knot comes from the much-maligned Ahmed
> Chalabi, who is now Iraq's deputy prime minister with
> special responsibilities for oil and infrastructure
> and has emerged as a major constitutional broker. He
> has bucked some of his Shiite and Kurdish allies by
> insisting that ultimate control of Iraq's natural
> wealth must remain in the hands of the central
> government, while also suggesting constitutional
> language that the wealth be owned by all Iraqis in
> 'equal measure.' In other words, the oil would be
> managed by the central government in the interests of
> all Iraqis wherever they live, but not owned by it.
>
> "Mr. Chalabi hopes that the 'equal measure' concept
> will pave the way in practice for the creation of an
> oil trust, under which Iraqis would from birth have
> accounts established in their name. Iraqis would
> receive their full and equal share of oil revenue and
> the government would have to vote to tax it away. Mr.
> Chalabi sees this as a way of breaking the 'oil curse'
> that has turned so many oil-rich nations into corrupt
> tyrannies."
> ----------------
>
> This is how Fawaz Saraf, the drafter of Chalabi's
> proposal, put it in his article posted to the Iraq
> Foundation site dated February 14:--
>
> "Deductions from monthly checks could made for
> reinvestment in the oil infrastructure with aim of
> boosting production, making payments towards Iraq's
> significant national debt, and paying national and
> local taxes to fund national and local government
> budgets (at the end of each year and once tax on total
> income, including income from oil dividend, is
> calculated, an Iraqi may have to pay additional tax or
> receive a refund).
>
> "Each month, along with the check, every Iraqi adult
> could also get a check-stub itemizing deductions and
> how they are disbursed. When the oil industry is
> mismanaged or sabotage disrupts oil production or
> exports, Iraqis will see it and feel it when the next
> oil dividend check they receive is smaller. What
> better way to induce a sense of ownership among
> Iraqis?...
>
> "Over the span of several years, and as Iraqi economy
> is normalized, security and stability is restored,
> democratic and civil society institutions are firmly
> in place, and essential infrastructure projects are
> funded, dividends payout from oil revenues could be
> reduced and redirected towards the establishment of
> oil royalty account or "Iraqi Permanent Fund". As
> funds in the royalty account grow, dividend payouts
> from oil revenues could be completely phased out and
> replaced with dividends generated by the Iraqi
> Permanent Fund trust."
> ----------------
>
> On August 18 Norm Kurland posted this to the Kelsoist
> "joelunchbuckett" site:--
>
> "...Whether Achmed Chalabi independently conceived of
> this proposal doesn't matter. It is a bottom-up
> approach based on limited government, private property
> principles that could be implemented to enhance market
> competition in growing the future Iraqi economy. This
> stands in sharp contrast to the socialistic top-down
> Alaskan Dividend Plan previously advocated that would
> keep citizens in a continuing status of economic
> dependency on governmental largesse. (Instead oil
> dividends trickling down after the political and
> business elite take their cut off the top, you [the
> Wall Street Journal] point out that the plan would
> channel dividends to each individual's account, so
> that oil managers and government tax collectors would
> have to justify their needs with a nation of
> taxpayer-owners.)"
> ----------------
>
> Kurland once again disparaged the Alaska plan with the
> most outrageous characterization, as he, Kelso and
> Gravel have done for years. Yet, the truth of the
> matter is that Chalabi's proposal is an adaptation
> from the Alaska model deriving in first inspiration
> from C. H. Douglas' idea of the social dividend, not
> Kelso's or Kurland's "invention" that Chalabi "may
> have" discovered "independently".
> -
>
>
>
> --- Norman Kurland <thirdway@cesj.org> wrote:
>
> Normally I don't respond to anything Ryan contributes,
> because he doesn't understand binary economics or make
> any serious attempt to. He also doesn't understand
> property or its political significance, is therefore
> totally oblivious of the systemic causes of extreme
> concentration of capital ownership and the
> ever-widening economic power gap in the world. He
> spends most of his time trying to attack the motives
> of others who don't see the world his way. I don't
> have time for him or others who have closed their mind
> to the Just Third Way.
>
> However, Ryan demonstrates that he has a hard time
> reading closely, especially ideas outside of his
> narrow box. His posting contradicted his support of
> the trickle-down Alaskan Dividend Plan as an
> alternative for Iraq. His quoted source, without
> realizing it contained this passage:-
>
> Ahmed Chalabi, a highly controversial figure in Iraqi
> politics, believes the government should create a
> national oil company that collects revenue from the
> development and sale of the country's oil and gas.
> Every citizen would own one non-transferable share in
> the company. The shares would pay dividends to
> citizens, who in turn would pay taxes to the
> government. "We would make the government reliant on
> the people for its revenue, rather than having an
> independent stream of revenue from the oil," says
> Sethna, Chalabi's energy policy adviser. "The
> government will be more responsive to the people, and
> the people will feel that they have a stake in their
> governance."
>
> Establishing a tax system in Iraq would be one way to
> sidestep the contentious debates Alaska has faced
> since it first created the Permanent Fund. Alaskans
> pay no state income tax. Oil royalties fund most of
> the state government; this money, for the most part,
> does not come from the Permanent Fund or its earnings.
> Instead, lawmakers can tap the fund's investment.
> earnings to pay for the business of government.
> -
>
> Compare the above with our proposal
> (http://www.cesj.org/thirdway/paradigmpapers/iraq-nationbuilding.htm)
> It has been circulating long before America invaded
> Iraq in 2003. In a meeting in his office on July 14,
> 2005, I asked in Senator George Allen, who previously
> supported the Alaska Plan, to send our proposal to top
> Iraqi officials he knew, as an alternative to the
> Alaska Plan, which was also previously supported by
> Chalabi. Here's the binary economic proposal I'm told
> by the Senator's staff was sent out, before we learned
> from the main editorial in the Wall Street Journal of
> August 17th what appears to be a policy reversal by
> Chalabi:
>
> Phases of Implementation
>
> PHASE 1: Transfer Free Oil Shares to Every Citizen of
> Iraq.
> Denationalize the oil fields of Iraq, as a catalyst
> for building a new "Just Third Way" economy. Transfer
> the ownership and control of all oil reserves and
> natural resources within the borders of Iraq from the
> Iraqi National Oil Company to a newly formed,
> professionally managed, limited liability joint stock
> corporation. All Iraqis would automatically receive
> free, as a right of citizenship from birth to death,
> an equal number of non-transferable shares in the new
> corporation. All citizens would be guaranteed
> first-class shareholder rights to the profits and
> voting control over the board of directors and
> management of the new company. All profits except for
> operating reserves would be paid out fully and
> periodically as dividends to each shareholder.
>
> To meet all costs and services of government at the
> national, provincial and local levels, taxes on such
> dividend incomes would be withheld by the corporation
> before distributing the balance of dividends to each
> citizen. The shares of those who die would be retired
> to the General Fund or redistributed to new-borns,
> returning Iraqi exiles and newly naturalized citizens,
> who would receive an equal number of shares as
> existing shareholders.
>
> The new corporation would encourage market forces in
> setting prices throughout the economy by offering,
> through a competitive bidding process, concessions and
> leases for exploration, drilling, infrastructural
> engineering and construction, processing and marketing
> oil and other natural resource activities.
> Preferential treatment would be given to competitive
> operating companies that are broadly owned by Iraqi
> citizens.
>
> To lay the foundations for Iraq's future economy, new
> industrial, agricultural and commercial demonstration
> projects (for example, using advanced alternative
> energy technologies that produce power and water from
> sea water and waste), could be launched and financed
> in ways that encourage wider share ownership among
> Iraqi workers and other stakeholders.
>
> Future government revenues would then flow from the
> bottom-up from increasing citizen incomes. This would
> make government more dependent economically on its
> citizens, rather than perpetuating the previous
> top-down dependency of the people on a political
> elite. A single rate of taxation on all incomes above
> poverty levels would balance government budgets,
> achieve greater accountability, transparency and
> democratic participation in governance at all levels,
> and radically reduce future risks of public sector
> corruption or future coups.
>
> Personal share accounts (like Individual Retirement
> Accounts in the U.S.) would be set up within local
> banks for each worker and every citizen of Iraq to
> accumulate income-producing capital assets, sheltered
> from any taxes until assets or income are distributed
> for personal consumption. The equity accumulation
> accounts would also be given the power to borrow
> interest-free, non-recourse productive credit on
> behalf of the citizen.
>
> This "capital credit" would be used exclusively by
> citizens to purchase new shares issued by new or
> growing Iraqi enterprises to finance the expansion and
> modernization needs of a growing Iraqi economy. The
> debt for purchasing the newly issued growth shares
> would be secured and repaid by the projected dividends
> on those shares (as with leveraged employee stock
> ownership plans in the U.S.).
>
> Here's the relevant passage from Wall Street Journal
> article of August 17th:
>
> The best suggestion we've heard for cutting this
> Gordian knot comes from the much-maligned Ahmed
> Chalabi, who is now Iraq's deputy prime minister with
> special responsibilities for oil and infrastructure
> and has emerged as a major constitutional broker. He
> has bucked some of his Shiite and Kurdish allies by
> insisting that ultimate control of Iraq's natural
> wealth must remain in the hands of the central
> government, while also suggesting constitutional
> language that the wealth be owned by all Iraqis in
> "equal measure." In other words, the oil would be
> managed by the central government in the interests of
> all Iraqis wherever they live, but not owned by it.
>
> Mr. Chalabi hopes that the "equal measure" concept
> will pave the way in practice for the creation of an
> oil trust, under which Iraqis would from birth have
> accounts established in their name. Iraqis would
> receive their full and equal share of oil revenue and
> the government would have to vote to tax it away. Mr.
> Chalabi sees this as a way of breaking the "oil curse"
> that has turned so many oil-rich nations into corrupt
> tyrannies.
> -
>
> What does this prove? It shows that Ryan shoots from
> the hip and doesn't see the confused and contradictory
> nature of his attempt at refuting our initiatiative.
> I repeat, the Alaska so-called "dividend" plan is "a
> trickle-down socialist approach". It does not give
> Alaskan citizens private ownership of property in the
> form of individually acquired equity shares. Our
> approach gives economic power to the people. The
> approach Ryan seems to favor keeps the citizens in a
> permanent position of dependency on the generosity and
> honesty of policiticians and bureaucrats, who will do
> whatever they can to be re-elected and that usually
> means giving money to special interest groups they
> need to stay in power, and giving the people the
> left-overs. That's why socialism eventually gets as
> corrupt as monopoly capitalism.
>
> Ryan doesn't get the point, and until he can refute in
> a civilized maneer the logic of binary economics, I
> will continue to ignore him, as so many others have in
> the past. You can bet that Ryan will not pass my
> response on to the social credit elist.
>
> Norm Kurland
>
> William B. Ryan wrote:
> [snipped]
> -
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> You're subscribed to this list with the email keithwilde@sympatico.ca
> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>
|
Re: [socialcredit]
Reply to this message