| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Alaska dividend | | Date: | Tuesday, September 6, 2005 16:37:33 (-0600) | | From: | Chick Hurst <chickhurst @....ca>
|
| In reply to: | Message 2726 (written by Keith Wilde) |
Keith
I am not sure if I am adding anything to your information or not but, as you
are probably aware, in 1936 the province of Alberta went into Bankruptcy.
That was the one and only time in Canada's history that that was allowed to
happen, as far as I have determined. From that day to 1955, the Province of
Alberta was not allowed to borrow any money. You can double check the dates
with Preston Manning at the Frazier Institute. The province was however
able to float a debt bond to raise money to work with. All foreign debt had
been paid off by 1945 and the domestic debt was paid off in 1949. In 1950,
the amount that had been going to pay off the debt was then deposited into a
new fund, the Heritage Fund. The plan was, as far as I can determine, was
to have the dividends to start to be paid out in 1975. When Ted Hinman went
to Alaska to assist in the establishment of the Alaska Permanent Fund, the
plan was established to follow exactly the Alberta Plan. Alaska started to
build their Fund at that time in the early 60's.
The wrench was thrown into the gears, however, when Peter Laugheed, the
Conservative Premier of Alberta, decided in 1975 that the people could not
handle a dividend, actual cash in hand, and in 1976 changed it to what is
presently in place, The Alberta Heritage Savings and Trust Fund. The
difference between Alberta and Alaska is that the politicians still had
control over the fund until recent years. The Alberta Heritage Savings and
Trust Fund, established in 1976, did reach $40 Billion but the government
has also built up a debt of $40 Billion as well. They not only rifled the
fund they either bankrupted most of the province's assets or sold them off
at fire sale prices to the "Friends of the Politicians."
Chick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Wilde" <nschwartz@cogeco.ca>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Alaska dividend
> It does say "AN" economic radical. How many names would you expect to
> associate with "an"?
>
> When I approached Hinman in 1968, or possibly as late as '69, to ask him
> how
> or if he had conceived in Social Credit a link to early American property
> equalization schemes (as in Thos. Skidmore, "The Rights of Man to
> Property",
> 1829 or '30), he acknowledged that the notion may have crossed his mind,
> but
> that he could not reconstruct it for me. He did mention that as the
> Depression took hold and he found himself searching in indignation for
> better policy solutions, the first one that caught his attention was
> Technocracy, but that he soon passed it over when he found the better
> idea.
> In respect of my particular question, however, he assured me that he had
> two
> friends who would be able to answer it abundantly and that he would be
> pleased to set up a meeting for me with either of them. Blackmore was one
> of them, Eldon Tanner the other. I elected Blackmore, who I presumed
> would
> have more time for a reflective discussion (long since retired as a
> federal
> MP), and was closer. (Hinman received me at his office in the Alberta
> Legislature; Tanner was at the time rather far away as de facto CEO of the
> Mormon Church business empire.) Blackmore received me graciously at his
> home in the hill country near the Montana border, and had prepared for the
> meeting by selecting documents for me from his personal collection.
> Otherwise, the conversation was not very satisfying to me, as he did not
> have direct responses to the question I had first addressed to Hinman, and
> I
> could detect that I would have to ferret out the answer for myself by
> learning first what Social Credit was about (or at least his concept of
> it).
> I did not press him on any points because he was obviously in declining
> health and a much diminished presence from the MP for Lethbridge who I
> had
> witnessed at political campaign speeches in the '50s. I learned some
> years
> later that he had died not long after our encounter. By that time I had
> made a stab at trying to understand what he was saying in his own book,
> with
> the assistance of a newly minted Friedman fanatic, but gave it up since we
> both had more urgent affairs.
>
> So, the bundle of books and pamphlets gathered dust on my shelves for 35
> years while I waited for the "right" time to get into it--or to pass it
> over
> to an appropriate archive. The Glenbow Foundation in Calgary does have a
> Blackmore archive, but its collection appears to be quite a bit smaller
> than
> the one in my possession. It does, however, include the Crate Larkin book
> "From Debt to Prosperity" which inspired Louis Even. Having now read that
> one, thanks to Wally, I can affirm that both it and the Colbourne
> exposition
> in my Blackmore bundle are consistent with all that I have encountered so
> far in
> reprints and expositions of Douglas orthodoxy through this forum. And
> they
> are impressive expositions.
>
> In persuading Wm. Krehm to publish the list (he was reluctant to give it
> so
> much space) I had hoped that there might be some readers old enough to
> remember some of the items and to reflect on their significance as turning
> points or missed opportunities. In particular, the items from the London
> Chamber of Commerce and other UK sources.
>
> As for the Alaska Permanent Fund, Martin Hattersley's account this morning
> of the acknowledged influence by Alaskans of Alberta ministers in the late
> years of the Manning government seems to suggest that there was a deeper
> imprint of some Douglas ideas than the usual dismissive remarks about its
> "name only" status.
>
> Keith Wilde
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William B. Ryan" <w_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 7:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Alaska dividend
>
>
>> Keith, at the link, the only name you've associated
>> with "The Reading List of an Economic Radical" is John
>> H. Blackmore, as I can see.
>> http://www.comer.org/2005/2005a/ecrad.htm
>>
>> Please explain the connection to Hinman.
>> -
>>
>> I have remarked regarding your article previously to
>> this list, on more than one occasion, I think.
>>
>> Wasn't Blackmore the first federal Social Credit
>> leader from Alberta, holding that important office for
>> several years? The book collection he handed to you
>> contains not a single piece by Douglas; mostly it's
>> typical greenbacker/monetary reform stuff containing
>> the usual gibberish.
>>
>> So here we have evidence that, from the very
>> beginning, there was paltry little Social Credit in
>> the Social Credit Party.
>> -
>>
>> The Alaska and Alberta programs were several years in
>> the making. By 1972 the Social Credit Party was out
>> of office; the program was inherited reluctantly by
>> the Party that defeated Social Credit. In Alaska the
>> idea was taken up by Republicans but with broad appeal
>> across the political spectrum. But in Alberta Social
>> Credit was discredited in the normal course of
>> politics.
>>
>> The experience may demonstrate the downside of turning
>> what should be a broadly appealing social concept into
>> something identified specifically with a particular
>> political party, with all the baggage that entails.
>>
>> The nineteenth century Populists were smarter than
>> that. Their plank of "free coinage of silver" was
>> adopted by significant caucuses of Democrats and
>> Republicans, and nearly carried the day.
>> -
>>
>> I've seen the anecdote about Manning, and it's
>> believable, knowing he was the fundamentalist that he
>> was. What evidence do we have he actually said it?
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Keith Wilde <nschwartz@cogeco.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Interesting. I thought I had seen mention of Hinman's
>> connection to the Alaska fund before, but I obviously
>> missed the exchange you have reproduced below, from
>> January.
>>
>> So Hinman had more influence on Alaska legislators
>> than he did on his own colleagues in Alberta. Is that
>> because of a deeper degree of conviction on principle?
>> Was he less inclined than Manning, e.g., to believe
>> that a perpetual endowment was "too good for sinners",
>> as Wally has suggested recently?
>>
>> Incidentally, it was Hinman who led me to the
>> literature I have listed and annotated as "The Reading
>> List of an Economic Radical", which is current at the
>> COMER site. I am a bit surprised that no one on this
>> list has commented on it.
>>
>> Keith Wilde
>>
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>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> You're subscribed to this list with the email chickhurst@shaw.ca
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