| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Re: the accounting model | | Date: | Saturday, September 10, 2005 13:33:22 (-0600) | | From: | Martin Hattersley <hattersleyjm @.........com>
|
| In reply to: | Message 2776 (written by Keith Wilde) |
I did a great deal of work with Statistics Canada's "National Accounts,
Income and Expenditure" and the "Bank of Canada Statistical Summary" for my
brief to the MacDonald Royal commission in 1983, based on the idea that if
the money supply is increased or decreased in any year, Gross National
Product CANNOT equal Gross National Expenditure, and the difference is
revealed in what is called "Residual Error" or "Statistical Discrepancy",
combined with an exaggeration of the actual amount of savings in the
"National Savings Account". This connected directly with the variations of
the price level that took place over a very long period of time that I
studied - between 1926 and 1983.
I think that the published figures of these two authorities would give
sufficient information to establish a National Credit Account. The problem
always keeps coming back to the way that most of our money is created by the
chartered banking system through loans, and control of this process is
needed if we are to have money issued (debt-free) by another authority.
I can send you a copy of the brief I did should you wish.
Martin Hattersley
1970-10123-99 St.,
EDMONTON AB CANADA
e-mail: hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Wilde" <keithwilde@sympatico.ca>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: the accounting model
>I just noticed today, in looking in the Canada Yearbook for something else,
>that Statistics Canada has been compiling a "National Balance Sheet" since
>1990. Has anyone here had a look at it for the purpose of seeing how far
>it goes toward the requirements of a National Credit Account?
>
> Keith Wilde
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martin Hattersley" <hattersleyjm@interbaun.com>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: the accounting model
>
>
>> The illustration of the cultural inheritance that I like is that, if the
>> two greatest musical composers of all time, Mozart and Beethoven, had
>> been paid even one cent per hearer for all the performances of their
>> works that have taken place since their death, they would be
>> millionaires.
>>
>> As it is, both died in poverty!
>>
>> And their works will provide enjoyment to mankind free of charge, for
>> many centuries to come.
>>
>> Martin Hattersley
>> 1970-10123-99 St. Edmonton AB Canada
>> Phone (780)423-2081; Fax (780)425-5247
>> e-mail: jmartinh@shaw.ca;
>> hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:47 AM
>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: the accounting model
>>
>>
>>> In-Reply-To: <20050909050135.605.qmail@mail.egrupos.com>
>>> Hi Peter.
>>>
>>> The clearest explanation of the "Common cultural inheritance" that I
>>> have
>>> ever had the benefit of is the example of the wheel.
>>>
>>> It was explained to me that I as a consumer had the benefit of lots of
>>> things that came down to me gratis, from the efforts of anonymous
>>> persons
>>> from the past. I did NOT pay them for these advantages.
>>>
>>> When I asked for an example, for remember I too was once unaware of all
>>> this, I was told of the wheel, inverted long ago, and I do not pay for
>>> its
>>> use :-)
>>>
>>> Ken.
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
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>>> Date: 9 Sep 2005 07:01:35 +0200
>>> Message-ID: <20050909050135.605.qmail@mail.egrupos.com>
>>> From: cymric@xtra.co.nz
>>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>>> References: <fa.1b133051.3051fb63@aol.com>
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>>> Subject: [socialcredit] Re: the accounting model
>>> X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
>>> X-UIDL: _JiF.7YWIDB.mta03.mx
>>>
>>> Howdy Michael,
>>> Its not clear to me who's comments make up the post. My guess is your
>>> comments are from "Its a usefull analogy...", and the rest is Bills.
>>> I dont recognise the Cultural Heritage, seems to me the author thinks
>>> everything of value up to last night is such and yet he has read
>>> Douglas.
>>> Douglas is so much clearer and easier to understand, seems to me this
>>> version is good for confusing people.
>>> Peter h
>>>
>>> Triumphofthepast@aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Bill has suggested that the National Credit Account is modeled on the
>>> capital
>>>> account of a single business. The National Dividend would then be
>>> analogous
>>>> to drawings or dividends.
>>>>
>>>> In Douglas's boots example in Economic Democracy, animal skin is turned
>>> into
>>>> rawhide, the rawhide is turned into leather, and the leather is turned
>>> into
>>>> boots. The national credit account is correspondingly written (1) up
>>>> by
>>> the
>>>> value of the hides, (2) up by the value of the leather and down by the
>>> value of
>>>> the (consumed) hides, and (3) up by the value of the boots and down by
>>> the
>>>> value of the (consumed) leather.
>>>>
>>>> If the national credit account is thought of as representing the
>>> Cultural
>>>> Heritage, then we can say that the boots enter the stream of the
>>> Cultural
>>>> Heritage incrementally with each stage of production. Each stage makes
>>> the nation
>>>> richer and so results in a net increase in the National Credit Account.
>>>>
>>>> The nation, through a banking system as public servant, will have to
>>> devote
>>>> some quantity of consumer goods on the shelf as an incentive for new
>>> production
>>>> (by allocating them to production). Due to improvement of process,
>>>> this
>>>
>>>> quantity may well be less than the full tally of goods on the shelf.
>>> Then the
>>>> balance of goods constituting the Cultural Heritage in effect already
>>> belong to
>>>> the public. They only need to come and take physical possession by
>>> presenting
>>>> tickets (money). A National Dividend of tickets is a way to ensure
>>>> that
>>> this
>>>> National Dividend of goods takes place.
>>>>
>>>> How does the Cultural Heritage compare to the capital account of a
>>> business?
>>>>
>>>> A business is an association. The capital account of a business means
>>> that
>>>> all the assets of the business that are not owed externally
>>> (liabilities) are
>>>> owned internally by members of the association. Some of its assets are
>>>> physical things like property, plant, and equipment. But part of its
>>> assets is
>>>> cash.* Cash is tickets to the nation's goods and services, so we can
>>> say that part
>>>> of a company's assets are claims to other companies' inventories.**
>>>> The
>>>
>>>> greater part of these claims to other companies' inventories is
>>>> retained
>>> and
>>>> invested in new production. Claims to other companies' inventories not
>>> retained is
>>>> paid out to members in the form of dividends, or drawings.
>>>>
>>>> Similarly, a nation is an association. The National Credit Account
>>> means
>>>> that the wealth of the nation that is not owed externally (to foreign
>>> entities)
>>>> is owned internally by the citizens. Similarly also, some portion of
>>> the
>>>> wealth of the nation (at the discretion of a banking system as public
>>> servant?) is
>>>> invested in new production. The suggestion is that the portion of
>>> consumer
>>>> goods and services not needed to be invested in new production should
>>>> be
>>> paid
>>>> out to members of the association of the nation (i.e., everybody) in
>>>> the
>>> form of
>>>> a National Dividend.
>>>>
>>>> It's a useful analogy, but I note three key differences:
>>>>
>>>> 1. The concept of the Cultural Heritage implies that the national
>>> dividend
>>>> is a right, whereas a stockholder has no right to a dividend unless and
>>> until
>>>> it is declared.
>>>> 2. Stockholder dividends are paid out of retained earnings, which come
>>> from
>>>> sales; whereas the national dividend is money created for the purpose.
>>> Cash
>>>> is a limitation to the single business, but not to the nation. If the
>>> goods
>>>> and services exist, the nation can create the cash.
>>>> 3. Stockholder dividends are offered as an incentive to attract
>>> investors to
>>>> production. The national dividend is the opposite, a release from the
>>>> necessity for more production.
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>> *In accountants' language, "cash" includes money in a bank account.
>>>> **Douglas called attention to the error of counting the thing and the
>>> money
>>>> that claims it both as assets.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> You're subscribed to this list with the email keithwilde@sympatico.ca
>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> You're subscribed to this list with the email hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>
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