| Subject: | [socialcredit] Replying to Dan Morin | | Date: | Sunday, October 9, 2005 11:48:06 (-0700) | | From: | MODERATOR <socredus @.....com>
|
"Wealth is measured by the amount of goods and
services PRODUCED."
-----------------------------
From this false premise you will conclude absurdly
that a society producing at the limits of its
productive capacity is equal in wealth to a society
producing an equivalent amount per capita at a
fraction of its respective productive capacity. The
empirical observation of the distinction between the
two is the basis of the concept of social credit.
----
"Giving tickets makes the recipients of those tickets
bigger consumers and smaller producers, similar as
winners of the lottery."
-----------------------------
But the lottery is not "giving more" tickets but
transferring tickets from the many to the few, after
skimming its large vigorish in tickets off the top.
So it is logically irrelevant to any argument about
"giving more" tickets, is it not?
----
"A monopoly needs government laws to survive."
-----------------------------
In the Populist/Progressive era about a century ago,
laws were enacted to suppress or check monopolies that
were established in the absence of laws or regulation.
I'm afraid this false assertion reflects nothing more
than an ideological bias against the institution of
government as defender of the Rights of Man.
----
"Without government laws, there are no monopolies."
-----------------------------
On the contrary, in the absence of laws to suppress
and check monopolies, you would have nothing but
monopolies, for the strong will dominate the weak in
the environment in which might makes right. So this
assertion is false, too.
----
"If the telephone system would be free, it would be as
competitive as the Internet."
-----------------------------
Did you not know that the Internet is entirely
dependent on the existing phone system infrastructure?
Did you not know that the Internet is itself a
monopoly, with a single body determining uniform
protocols, etc., and its "backbone" servers without
which it could not function? Did you not know that
the single body is the United States Government which
controls the Internet worldwide, which began as a
project of the Department of Defense? Did you not
know there is presently a concerted effort to transfer
the control of the monopoly to the United Nations?*
The Internet is a perfect example of a natural
monopoly that benefits everyone because it is a
monopoly, contingent on reasonable people being in
control, checked by public oversight.
It is only within a rational framework of law and
standards that freedom might ring.
----
"The means of oppression are regulation laws
preventing smaller players to enter the market."
-----------------------------
In the beginning there are no "smaller players" in
respect to natural monopolies. Right-of-ways,
franchises and licenses are granted favoring certain
entrepreneurs over others. Otherwise, the development
of natural monopolies is greatly retarded. To call
this process "means of oppression" is pinheaded
ideology to the extreme.
Perhaps you don't know the difference between natural
and other monopolies. Natural monopolies are to be
encouraged but checked. Monopolies other than natural
are to be suppressed.
----
"Big corporations are inefficient and the only way to
hold their position is to suppress the small
entrepreneur."
-----------------------------
No, big corporations can be very efficient, depending
on the arbitrary standard of efficiency, comrade. But
unchecked they can and typically do become means of
oppression. As a general matter we want to encourage
competition, which is why in the Populist/Progressive
era anti-trust legislation was implemented in many of
the states and by the Federal government.
But we have suffered a half century of "deregulation,"
pushed by "free market" ideologues such as yourself,
who know nothing free markets, and what makes them
superior to the alternative.
-
*Which of course I oppose.
----------in reply to----------
Subject: RE: [socialcredit]
Reply from Dan Morin
Date: Saturday, October 8, 2005 22:35:24 (-0400)
From: Daniel Morin <dan@danmorin.com>
Hello All,
"But modern money is a generalized form of contract
calling for future performance or delivery, like a
ticket. How is that not wealth?"
----
It is true money acts as a ticket to get goods &
services from the pool of resources. Wealth is
measured by the amount of goods and services PRODUCED.
Giving "more tickets" does not contribute any more
wealth but merely increase CONSUMPTION of goods &
services which depletes the productive capital.
Giving tickets makes the recipients of those tickets
bigger consumers and smaller producers, similar as
winners of the lottery. People winning the lottery
usually work less, thus producing less, and consume
more... all at the expense of everyone else who played
the lottery without winning anything. Having a
lottery does not create wealth although it makes new
millionaires each months.
As for the financial system being a natural monopoly,
this is plainly false. The financial system is
currently a monopoly because there are laws preventing
small players to compete. A monopoly needs government
laws to survive. Without government laws, there are
no monopolies. The internet is a perfect example of
free enterprise without monopoly. Nobody has control
of the net and everyone is welcome to join and try to
sell goods and services on the Net. For instance on
the net, you can start your own website, host pages,
create content, start a new search engine, and more.
The phone network is currently a monopoly because of
all the telecommunications restrictions - and there
are many of them in case you don't know. If the
telephone system would be free, it would be as
competitive as the Internet.
"That requires the implementation of checks and
balances upon its administration to preclude it
becoming the means of oppression."
----
The means of oppression are regulation laws preventing
smaller players to enter the market. Big corporations
are inefficient and the only way to hold their
position is to suppress the small entrepreneur. I can
give you plenty of example of this.
-- Dan Morin.
-----Original Message-----
From: MODERATOR [mailto:socredus@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 6:32 AM
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