| Subject: | RE: [socialcredit] RE: NOT TRUE - the world is in the same boat. the | | Date: | Monday, October 10, 2005 15:27:00 (+0100) | | From: | Kenneth Palmerton <kenpalmerton @................uk>
|
In-Reply-To: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHAELKCIAB.dan@danmorin.com>
Hi Dan Morin.
I think we could make a better judgement of what you have written if it
were clear if you were referring to the world of employment as it is NOW,
or wether you assume that purchasing power had already been made adequate
via the sort of financial reforms that many here wish for.
You must be aware of the bloody struggles that ordinary people have been
forced to take part in over the last couple of centuries. A struggle to
secure from employment sufficient income to live a decent life.
That we are now aware that this struggle was doomed, by the sort of ideas
that you seem to be supporting about the freedom to take any employment on
offer, is unfortunate. That is a race for the bottom. And leads to an
unnecessary, and I would argue undesirable level of human mobility.
Mobility that I do not think would be freely chosen were not necessity the
driver.
Desperation for ANY income will lead to destruction of any social order in
time.
That ordinary people combined to secure what they mistakenly thought was a
decent income is not surprising. They were after all combating employers
who were at least as well organised to depress that income as working
people were to increase it .
Much more to say on this subject I think, if you are willing that is.
Ken.
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Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:10:03 -0400
From: Daniel Morin <dan@danmorin.com>
In-reply-to: <JOEHIEKKDGNJIBKDACDBEEJPCFAA.henry.raynel@actrix.gen.nz>
To: socialcredit@elistas.com, paul@paulfromm.com
Cc: "William B. Ryan" <w_b_ryan@yahoo.com>,
"W. H. McGunnigle" <mcgunnigle@win.co.nz>,
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Robert Balgarnie <rnb@northnet.com.au>,
Reg Williams <reg2000@woosh.co.nz>,
Raybaikie <raybaikie@hisplace.co.nz>,
Ray Palmer <whanau@k10b052.kohanga.ac.nz>,
Peter Raynel <beta4u@actrix.co.nz>, Peter Haines
<petros@ihug.co.nz>, Peter Challen <peter@southwark.org.uk>,
"N.Z. Democratic Party" <nzdp.inc@xtra.co.nz>,
Luke Bridgeman <lbbridgeman@hotmail.com>,
Lowell Manning <manning@kapiti.co.nz>,
Kent Deirdre <deirdrek@paradise.net.nz>,
Jonathan Eisen <jon.boy@ihug.co.nz>,
John Rabarts <john.rabarts@ihug.co.nz>,
John Pemberton <pemberj@slingshot.co.nz>,
John G Rawson <johngrawson@hotmail.com>,
Joe Pickens <pickenz@hotmail.com>, Jami-lee Ross
<jami.lee@xtra.co.nz>, Ian Andrews <iandrews@ihug.co.nz>, Holmes
Gary <grholmes@xtra.co.nz>, Guy Steward <gpsteward@xtra.co.nz>,
Gary Moson <g.monson@alchemy.co.nz>,
fletch Tabuteau <fletch_ht@xtra.co.nz>,
errol Baird <ebaird@paradise.net.nz>, Doug lever
<clever@ihug.co.nz>, Don Bethune <donbeth@dominc.cjb.net>,
David Wilson <wilson_df@xtra.co.nz>,
David Fletcher <david_vt@xtra.co.nz>,
"Colgan. Farms. Puni" <colgan.farms.puni@xtra.co.nz>,
Carol <carol@highland.co.nz>, Bill Daly <b.daly@xtra.co.nz>,
Barry Raynel <barryray@clear.net.nz>,
Alasdair Day <alasdairday@hotmail.com>,
`Reg Williams <reg2000@xtra.co.nz>,
Robert Carroll <monques@i-link-2.net>,
Fiona Clayton-Law <callisto.fmcl@xtra.co.nz>,
Darryl Coughey <darryl@pbtech.co.nz>,
NZ_Banking_Reform@egroups.com,
Garry Knapp <knapp.gt@xtra.co.nz>,
"Geoffrey Lawn >" <" <lawngd"@ihug.co.nz>
Message-id: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHAELKCIAB.dan@danmorin.com>
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Subject: RE: [socialcredit] RE: NOT TRUE - the world is in the same boat.
the cure is vigorously use democracy.
X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
X-UIDL: _-ZH.qyjSDB.mta02.mx
Hello All,
I want to say I disagree. Remaining silent would imply I am in "your boat"
which is not the case.
> Swarms of people from the Third world are taking over our jobs. This
policy is
> dumming us all down to lower living standards.
Don't be selfish and be happy for those people. Everyone has the right to
work and earn his living. If a job is available, everyone can take it. It
is the job creator (employer) who decides who is best suited to do the
work,not the politician nor the voter. A job does not "belong" to a
specialgroup. Everyone has an equal right to take job, including
immigrants. Thisis called personal FREEDOM. Myself, I have the right to
take any job at anypay and nobody has superior rights to decide if I am
allowed to work. Whoare you to say to someone he/she cannot take a given
job. What part ofFREEDOM don't you understand?
By the way, having immigrants is IMPROVING our living standards. I don't
know where your assertions come from, but you are an ignorant about basic
economics. It is true someone loosing his/her job at the expense of an
immigrant is not pleasant, however the overall standard of the society
improves by having goods and services produced cheaper for everyone.
> The economic problem is more than greedy big business.
> We must use our energy to evolve a grass roots campaign to demand
> every day common policies we want, example, better cheaper housing,
> better individual financial security with a universal
> supplementary liveable income that does not go into price
> - to name just two! voters must demand what we want, housing,
> food, clothing, and the financial security to make it possible.
The greedy is YOU, trying to blame it on big business. You are living in
anaffluent country and want to consume more. Your current level of
consumption is way above the world average, and all you think is to consume
even more. You are asking people to join in your crusade against the poor
to raise your on standard of living. Worse, you are willing to suppress
thepoor little individual from third world country in the hope to achieve a
higher standard of living.
> Every persons natural desire is to achieve personal financial security,
> personal freedom with responsibility and have personal initiative
unhampered.
Obviously this does not apply to immigrants. It appear you have double
standards.
Sincerely,
-- Dan Morin.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Henry Raynel [mailto:henry.raynel@actrix.gen.nz]
> Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 6:24 PM
> To: paul@paulfromm.com
> Cc: Socialcredit; William B. Ryan; W. H. McGunnigle; Victor Bridger;
> Trevor Crosby; Tony Cardy; Tom Elliott; Steve Baron; Stephnie de Ruyter;
> Roger Monckton; Rodney Shakespeare; Robert Balgarnie; Reg Williams;
> Raybaikie; Ray Palmer; Peter Raynel; Peter Haines; Peter Challen; N.Z.
> Democratic Party; Luke Bridgeman; Lowell Manning; Kent Deirdre; Jonathan
> Eisen; John Rabarts; John Pemberton; John G Rawson; Joe Pickens;
> Jami-lee Ross; Ian Andrews; Holmes Gary; Henry Raynel; Guy Steward; Gary
> Moson; fletch Tabuteau; errol Baird; Doug lever; Don Bethune; David
> Wilson; David Fletcher; Colgan. Farms. Puni; Carol; Bill Daly; Barry
> Raynel; Alasdair Day; `Reg Williams; Robert Carroll; Fiona Clayton-Law;
> Darryl Coughey; NZ_Banking_Reform@egroups.com; Garry Knapp; Geoffrey
> Lawn >
> Subject: [socialcredit] RE: Have you seen this posting. the world is in
> the same boat. the cure is vigorously use democracy.
>
>
> Hello to all,
> Our New Zealand Labour and National Coalition Government's immigration
> policy of the last approximately 15 years is the policy of those
> controlling
> economics and Governments of the world. Swarms of people from the Third
> world are taking over our jobs. This policy is dumming us all
> down to lower
> living standards.
>
> The economic problem is more than greedy big business it is policy of the
> New World Order controllers. I claim we Social Credit reformers
> and with the
> help and cooperation of all economic reformers must bring pressure
against> the present system of economics which is naturally developing the
big> international companies that you and others are rightly concerned
about.> This is the natural evolution big companies buying out their
troublesome> competitors for their own survival and healthy profits. Under
the present> outdated faulty economics these big companies must show
acceptable profits> to investors or go into decline themselves.
>
> This is inherent in present rotten economics. The big get bigger the
small> and medium struggle harder and if they become a tall troublesome
> poppy they
> are bought out. THIS IS "THE SYSTEM" OF ECONOMICS THAT MUST BE
> DRAMATICALLY
> CHANGED MODERNISED.
> SOCIAL CREDIT ECONOMICS IS THE "REAL ALTERNATIVE ECONOMICS"
>
> I fully support C H Douglas Social Credit, but we will never teach the
> voting public Social Credit. And they do not need to understand, the only
> thing voters must do is DEMAND THE POLICIES THEY WANT REGARDLESS OF
WHAT
> THEIR PARTY BOSSES SAY. I support Douglas campaign strategy in
> that we will
> never get New Economics of Social Credit from Bankers Party Politics
> Economics. PARTY POLITICS ARE MANIPULATED BY BANKERS AND THEIR
ECONOMISTS.
> Surely history of the last century has proved Douglas correct.
>
> Our real strength is to use the valuable imperfect democracy we have to
> campaign at grass roots to put pressure on local MP's pressuring
> them to be
> true representatives of their voters by taking policies wanted by their
> voters to parliament demanding parliament enact legislation for the
> policies.
>
> When voter pressure is put on local MP's and MPs get concerned at their
> voter support they will do what voters want. MP's must get the
> message that
> they must insist on their advisers and technical experts, that policies
> wanted by voters are achieved. If after giving them the opportunity and
> resources the policies are not carried out, then the advisers and experts
> must be replaced. If necessary the MP's as well. The will of the voters
is> paramount.
>
> The voters require their will to be enacted as policy. The local MP
rarely> wants to lose the privileges and good income that go with the job
and will> therefore work to keep their votes. THIS IS THE KEY TO OBTAINING
REAL> DEMOCRACY. Every persons natural desire is to achieve personal
financial> security, personal freedom with responsibility and have personal
> initiative
> unhampered.
>
> We must use our energy to evolve a grass roots campaign to demand
> every day
> common policies we want, example, better cheaper housing, better
> individual
> financial security with a universal supplementary liveable income
> that does
> not go into prices - to name just two! voters must demand what we want,
> housing, food, clothing, and the financial security to make it possible.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cafe-bounces@canadafirst.net
> [mailto:cafe-bounces@canadafirst.net]On Behalf Of cafe@canadafirst.net
> Sent: Wednesday, 5 October 2005 2:04 p.m.
> To: paul@paulfromm.com
> Subject:
>
>
> Dear Immigration Reformer:
>
> Once again, greedy big business, in full cahoots with governments, is
only> too eager to bring in swarms of people from the Third World to take
our> jobs.
>
> The Canadian Press (October 4, 2005) reports: "Alberta will increase
> immigration and bolster apprentice training to deal with a projected
> shortfall of more than 100,000 workers over the next decade. ... While
the> Alberta government doesn't actively recruit trades workers from other
> provinces, Alberta-based employers routinely advertise for
> employees across
> Canada. ... The goal is to increase the number of permanent immigrants to
> at least 24,000 a year from about 16,000. ...The plan includes marketing
> Alberta abroad as a place to live, encouraging foreign students to stay
> after they graduate, improving settlement services and expanding access
to> English as a second language training. ... Over the last three years
most> newcomers were from China, the Phillipines, India and Pakistan. "
>
> So, let's get this straight: Canada has unemployment hovering at 7 %.
> Alberta doesn't actively recruit workers in other provinces, but is only
> too happy to take its sales pitch to China or India, offer
> English language
> training and settlement services.
>
> In other words, they'd bend over backwards for Third Worlders and assist
> them in replacing the European founder/settler people of their
> own Province
> and this Dominion, but they'd do nothing for a fellow Canadian.
>
> Here's a novel idea: Why not put Canada and Canadians first! Why not
offer> travel and settlement assistance and travel allowances to recruit
> unemployed Maritimers, or Quebecers or Ontarians?
>
> I get it. They really want to bring in cheap labour and pay them a little
> less than Canadians and meantime stick the taxpayer for all the ESL and
> settlement costs.
>
> We need a Canada First policy, not an immigrants first, last and always
> policy.
>
> Paul Fromm
> Director
> CANADA FIRST IMMIGRATION REFORM COMMITTEE
>
>
> Alberta boosts immigration, apprentice training to deal with labour
> shortfall
>
>
> JOHN COTTER [Tues. Oct. 4, 2005]
>
> EDMONTON (CP) - Alberta will increase immigration and bolster apprentice
> training to deal with a projected shortfall of more than 100,000 workers
> over the next decade.
>
> With $107 billion in capital projects on the drawing board, political and
> industry leaders said Tuesday they want to ensure that the province's
> red-hot economy continues to roar.
>
> The government plan includes a policy to seek immigrants and help
> them make
> the transition to live and work in the province, Economic Development
> Minister Clint Dunford said.
>
> "Expanding our provincial nominee program will help Alberta employers
> attract and recruit skilled foreign workers to fill positions that could
> not be filled across Canada after extensive searching," Dunford said.
>
> While the Alberta government doesn't actively recruit trades workers from
> other provinces, Alberta-based employers routinely advertise for
employees> across Canada.
>
> The goal is to increase the number of permanent immigrants to at least
> 24,000 a year from about 16,000.
>
> The plan includes marketing Alberta abroad as a place to live,
encouraging> foreign students to stay after they graduate, improving
> settlement services
> and expanding access to English as a second language training.
>
> The province also wants to speed up the rate at which the professional
> skills of immigrants are recognized to ensure newcomers who are welders
or> carpenters don't end up driving cabs.
>
> In a separate announcement, Alberta's largest technical college laid out
a> $50-million plan to boost the training of skilled apprentices and
business> students.
>
> "Alberta's economy continues to lead the country in growth and
> consequently
> there is an ever-increasing demand for skilled workers," said Sam Shaw,
> president of the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology.
>
> Companies such as Suncor Energy (TSX:SU), Spartan Controls and Wiaward
> Steel have donated $13.5 million to the program, which will see 11
centres> built around the province to train millwrights, machinists,
electricians> and other skilled tradesworkers.
>
> Part of Suncor's contribution is for scholarships aimed at aboriginal and
> immigrant students.
>
> While the labour shortage is most acute in Alberta because of its booming
> energy sector, including oilsands projects in the Fort McMurray
> area, other
> provinces are feeling the pinch for skilled and unskilled workers.
>
> Business groups such as the Canadian Chamber of Commerce have been
calling
> on the federal government to devise a national plan to deal with the
> problem.
>
> Federal Immigration Minister Joe Volpe has suggested Ottawa may raise
> Canada's immigration levels by up to 40 per cent over the next five
years.>
> Earlier this year trade unions opposed a government program that
> brought in
> temporary foreign workers to help in Alberta's oilsands.
>
> Labour leaders were still a little skeptical Tuesday.
>
> "Is this really about immigrants or helping business get better access to
> cheap labour?" questioned Gil McGowan, president of the Alberta
Federation> of Labour.
>
> "We are not convinced the provincial government has done enough to help
> groups of workers here in Alberta who could be trained to fill some of
> these trades jobs."
>
> McGowan said earlier this year the province refused to help retrain 350
> workers who lost jobs when Celanese Canada (NYSE:CE) closed its plant in
> Fort Saskatchewan, Alta.
>
> "There are also pools and pockets of unemployed in aboriginal
communities.> Where is the government announcement aimed at them?"
>
> Alberta's jobless rate is about 3.5 per cent, a number the government
> considers to be near to full employment.
>
> The province draws about seven per cent of Canada's immigrants, a
> number it
> hopes to increase to 10 per cent.
>
> Advanced Education Minister Dave Hancock said Alberta, a province built
> largely by newcomers during its first 100 years, must depend on a wave of
> immigrants for its future.
>
> "We again need that stream of immigrant people who are prepared to come
> here to live in a place that has a good quality of life, but where they
> will have opportunities for themselves and their families."
>
> Last year about 65 per cent of immigrants who moved to Alberta had a
> university degree, a non-university diploma or a trade certificate.
>
> Over the last three years most newcomers were from China, the
Phillipines,> India and Pakistan.
>
>
> -----
> Visit the Canadian Association for Free Expression's website:
>
> http://www.canadianfreespeech.com
>
>
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