| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] RE: NOT TRUE - the world is in the same boat. the cure is vigorously use democracy. | | Date: | Monday, October 10, 2005 12:08:03 (+1000) | | From: | Vic Bridger <socred @.......au>
|
| In reply to: | Message 2934 (written by Daniel Morin) |
You may have the right to disagree but the right is restricted to correct
and informed knowledge. There is no doubt that immigrants are taking over
jobs. In fact the trend now is not so much that immigrants are taking over
jobs on less pay than locals but the work is being outsourced to cheaper
labour countries. This does no good for the domestic situation and at the
same time is not asisting those in third world countries who are working for
a pittance.
Social credit differentiates real cost from financial cost. From the social
credit perspective, the real cost of an hour's labor is an hour's labor,
generally speaking, so that an hour's labor in China is equal to an hour's
labor in Australia, or America, or in New Zealand. But in financial terms
the cost to the Chinese manufacturer for example for Chinese labor might be
20 cents per hour at the exchange rate, whereas the cost to the Australian,
american or new Zealand manufacturer might be $10 per hour for similar
work.
The figures are purely illustrative and should not be taken literally. The
point is that due to the monetary factor alone, trade across national
borders cannot be free trade in any real sense.
China or any other country which have greatly reduced labour rates have
substantially 'externalized' the cost of labor so that it is not priced into
the goods shipped to countries on higher labour rates. For most things, the
'productivity' in terms of labor utilized per unit outputted is higher in
Australia etc. than in China, so from a 'real' standpoint, Australian etc.
goods should cost less than Chinese goods in the Australian, american or New
Zealand market. Yet the Chinese goods are 'priced' lower. This is not a
free market in any real sense, but parasitical exploitation - of the Chinese
workers and those of third world countries who are enslaved - of the
Australian, american or New Zealand workers who are impoverished.
It is not a matter of being selfish but pragmatic truth. It is not a matter
of having the right to work and earn a living because that is a belief in a
false policy. Everyone has the right in their own country to obtain the
benefits of the productive system and that does not include the "right to
work", because much of the benefits are the results of a productive system
which does not rely on employment.
I find much of the content illogical in that is making assumptions of the
writer which were never stated. In addition I would humbly suggest that the
reference to FREEDOM illustrates the lack of understanding of what the word
really means.
It is not a matter of suppressing " the poor little individual from third
world country in the hope to achieve a higher standard of living". On the
contrary, it is a recognition of the fact that the current system is
exploiting them and this should be suppressed.
Victor J. Bridger
> Hello All,
> I want to say I disagree. Remaining silent would imply I am in "your
boat"
> which is not the case.
>
> > Swarms of people from the Third world are taking over our jobs. This
> policy is
> > dumming us all down to lower living standards.
>
> Don't be selfish and be happy for those people. Everyone has the right to
> work and earn his living. If a job is available, everyone can take it. It
> is the job creator (employer) who decides who is best suited to do the
work,
> not the politician nor the voter. A job does not "belong" to a special
> group. Everyone has an equal right to take job, including immigrants.
This
> is called personal FREEDOM. Myself, I have the right to take any job at
any
> pay and nobody has superior rights to decide if I am allowed to work.
Who
> are you to say to someone he/she cannot take a given job. What part of
> FREEDOM don't you understand?
>
> By the way, having immigrants is IMPROVING our living standards. I don't
> know where your assertions come from, but you are an ignorant about basic
> economics. It is true someone loosing his/her job at the expense of an
> immigrant is not pleasant, however the overall standard of the society
> improves by having goods and services produced cheaper for everyone.
>
> > The economic problem is more than greedy big business.
>
> > We must use our energy to evolve a grass roots campaign to demand
> > every day common policies we want, example, better cheaper housing,
> > better individual financial security with a universal
> > supplementary liveable income that does not go into price
> > - to name just two! voters must demand what we want, housing,
> > food, clothing, and the financial security to make it possible.
>
> The greedy is YOU, trying to blame it on big business. You are living in
an
> affluent country and want to consume more. Your current level of
> consumption is way above the world average, and all you think is to
consume
> even more. You are asking people to join in your crusade against the poor
> to raise your on standard of living. Worse, you are willing to suppress
the
> poor little individual from third world country in the hope to achieve a
> higher standard of living.
>
>
> > Every persons natural desire is to achieve personal financial security,
> > personal freedom with responsibility and have personal initiative
> unhampered.
>
> Obviously this does not apply to immigrants. It appear you have double
> standards.
>
> Sincerely,
> -- Dan Morin.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Henry Raynel [mailto:henry.raynel@actrix.gen.nz]
> > Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 6:24 PM
> > To: paul@paulfromm.com
> > Cc: Socialcredit; William B. Ryan; W. H. McGunnigle; Victor Bridger;
> > Trevor Crosby; Tony Cardy; Tom Elliott; Steve Baron; Stephnie de Ruyter;
> > Roger Monckton; Rodney Shakespeare; Robert Balgarnie; Reg Williams;
> > Raybaikie; Ray Palmer; Peter Raynel; Peter Haines; Peter Challen; N.Z.
> > Democratic Party; Luke Bridgeman; Lowell Manning; Kent Deirdre; Jonathan
> > Eisen; John Rabarts; John Pemberton; John G Rawson; Joe Pickens;
> > Jami-lee Ross; Ian Andrews; Holmes Gary; Henry Raynel; Guy Steward; Gary
> > Moson; fletch Tabuteau; errol Baird; Doug lever; Don Bethune; David
> > Wilson; David Fletcher; Colgan. Farms. Puni; Carol; Bill Daly; Barry
> > Raynel; Alasdair Day; `Reg Williams; Robert Carroll; Fiona Clayton-Law;
> > Darryl Coughey; NZ_Banking_Reform@egroups.com; Garry Knapp; Geoffrey
> > Lawn >
> > Subject: [socialcredit] RE: Have you seen this posting. the world is in
> > the same boat. the cure is vigorously use democracy.
> >
> >
> > Hello to all,
> > Our New Zealand Labour and National Coalition Government's immigration
> > policy of the last approximately 15 years is the policy of those
> > controlling
> > economics and Governments of the world. Swarms of people from the Third
> > world are taking over our jobs. This policy is dumming us all
> > down to lower
> > living standards.
> >
> > The economic problem is more than greedy big business it is policy of
the
> > New World Order controllers. I claim we Social Credit reformers
> > and with the
> > help and cooperation of all economic reformers must bring pressure
against
> > the present system of economics which is naturally developing the big
> > international companies that you and others are rightly concerned about.
> > This is the natural evolution big companies buying out their troublesome
> > competitors for their own survival and healthy profits. Under the
present
> > outdated faulty economics these big companies must show acceptable
profits
> > to investors or go into decline themselves.
> >
> > This is inherent in present rotten economics. The big get bigger the
small
> > and medium struggle harder and if they become a tall troublesome
> > poppy they
> > are bought out. THIS IS "THE SYSTEM" OF ECONOMICS THAT MUST BE
> > DRAMATICALLY
> > CHANGED MODERNISED.
> > SOCIAL CREDIT ECONOMICS IS THE "REAL ALTERNATIVE ECONOMICS"
> >
> > I fully support C H Douglas Social Credit, but we will never teach the
> > voting public Social Credit. And they do not need to understand, the
only
> > thing voters must do is DEMAND THE POLICIES THEY WANT REGARDLESS OF WHAT
> > THEIR PARTY BOSSES SAY. I support Douglas campaign strategy in
> > that we will
> > never get New Economics of Social Credit from Bankers Party Politics
> > Economics. PARTY POLITICS ARE MANIPULATED BY BANKERS AND THEIR
ECONOMISTS.
> > Surely history of the last century has proved Douglas correct.
> >
> > Our real strength is to use the valuable imperfect democracy we have to
> > campaign at grass roots to put pressure on local MP's pressuring
> > them to be
> > true representatives of their voters by taking policies wanted by their
> > voters to parliament demanding parliament enact legislation for the
> > policies.
> >
> > When voter pressure is put on local MP's and MPs get concerned at their
> > voter support they will do what voters want. MP's must get the
> > message that
> > they must insist on their advisers and technical experts, that policies
> > wanted by voters are achieved. If after giving them the opportunity and
> > resources the policies are not carried out, then the advisers and
experts
> > must be replaced. If necessary the MP's as well. The will of the voters
is
> > paramount.
> >
> > The voters require their will to be enacted as policy. The local MP
rarely
> > wants to lose the privileges and good income that go with the job and
will
> > therefore work to keep their votes. THIS IS THE KEY TO OBTAINING REAL
> > DEMOCRACY. Every persons natural desire is to achieve personal financial
> > security, personal freedom with responsibility and have personal
> > initiative
> > unhampered.
> >
> > We must use our energy to evolve a grass roots campaign to demand
> > every day
> > common policies we want, example, better cheaper housing, better
> > individual
> > financial security with a universal supplementary liveable income
> > that does
> > not go into prices - to name just two! voters must demand what we want,
> > housing, food, clothing, and the financial security to make it possible.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cafe-bounces@canadafirst.net
> > [mailto:cafe-bounces@canadafirst.net]On Behalf Of cafe@canadafirst.net
> > Sent: Wednesday, 5 October 2005 2:04 p.m.
> > To: paul@paulfromm.com
> > Subject:
> >
> >
> > Dear Immigration Reformer:
> >
> > Once again, greedy big business, in full cahoots with governments, is
only
> > too eager to bring in swarms of people from the Third World to take our
> > jobs.
> >
> > The Canadian Press (October 4, 2005) reports: "Alberta will increase
> > immigration and bolster apprentice training to deal with a projected
> > shortfall of more than 100,000 workers over the next decade. ... While
the
> > Alberta government doesn't actively recruit trades workers from other
> > provinces, Alberta-based employers routinely advertise for
> > employees across
> > Canada. ... The goal is to increase the number of permanent immigrants
to
> > at least 24,000 a year from about 16,000. ...The plan includes marketing
> > Alberta abroad as a place to live, encouraging foreign students to stay
> > after they graduate, improving settlement services and expanding access
to
> > English as a second language training. ... Over the last three years
most
> > newcomers were from China, the Phillipines, India and Pakistan. "
> >
> > So, let's get this straight: Canada has unemployment hovering at 7 %.
> > Alberta doesn't actively recruit workers in other provinces, but is only
> > too happy to take its sales pitch to China or India, offer
> > English language
> > training and settlement services.
> >
> > In other words, they'd bend over backwards for Third Worlders and assist
> > them in replacing the European founder/settler people of their
> > own Province
> > and this Dominion, but they'd do nothing for a fellow Canadian.
> >
> > Here's a novel idea: Why not put Canada and Canadians first! Why not
offer
> > travel and settlement assistance and travel allowances to recruit
> > unemployed Maritimers, or Quebecers or Ontarians?
> >
> > I get it. They really want to bring in cheap labour and pay them a
little
> > less than Canadians and meantime stick the taxpayer for all the ESL and
> > settlement costs.
> >
> > We need a Canada First policy, not an immigrants first, last and always
> > policy.
> >
> > Paul Fromm
> > Director
> > CANADA FIRST IMMIGRATION REFORM COMMITTEE
> >
> >
> > Alberta boosts immigration, apprentice training to deal with labour
> > shortfall
> >
> >
> > JOHN COTTER [Tues. Oct. 4, 2005]
> >
> > EDMONTON (CP) - Alberta will increase immigration and bolster apprentice
> > training to deal with a projected shortfall of more than 100,000 workers
> > over the next decade.
> >
> > With $107 billion in capital projects on the drawing board, political
and
> > industry leaders said Tuesday they want to ensure that the province's
> > red-hot economy continues to roar.
> >
> > The government plan includes a policy to seek immigrants and help
> > them make
> > the transition to live and work in the province, Economic Development
> > Minister Clint Dunford said.
> >
> > "Expanding our provincial nominee program will help Alberta employers
> > attract and recruit skilled foreign workers to fill positions that could
> > not be filled across Canada after extensive searching," Dunford said.
> >
> > While the Alberta government doesn't actively recruit trades workers
from
> > other provinces, Alberta-based employers routinely advertise for
employees
> > across Canada.
> >
> > The goal is to increase the number of permanent immigrants to at least
> > 24,000 a year from about 16,000.
> >
> > The plan includes marketing Alberta abroad as a place to live,
encouraging
> > foreign students to stay after they graduate, improving
> > settlement services
> > and expanding access to English as a second language training.
> >
> > The province also wants to speed up the rate at which the professional
> > skills of immigrants are recognized to ensure newcomers who are welders
or
> > carpenters don't end up driving cabs.
> >
> > In a separate announcement, Alberta's largest technical college laid out
a
> > $50-million plan to boost the training of skilled apprentices and
business
> > students.
> >
> > "Alberta's economy continues to lead the country in growth and
> > consequently
> > there is an ever-increasing demand for skilled workers," said Sam Shaw,
> > president of the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology.
> >
> > Companies such as Suncor Energy (TSX:SU), Spartan Controls and Wiaward
> > Steel have donated $13.5 million to the program, which will see 11
centres
> > built around the province to train millwrights, machinists, electricians
> > and other skilled tradesworkers.
> >
> > Part of Suncor's contribution is for scholarships aimed at aboriginal
and
> > immigrant students.
> >
> > While the labour shortage is most acute in Alberta because of its
booming
> > energy sector, including oilsands projects in the Fort McMurray
> > area, other
> > provinces are feeling the pinch for skilled and unskilled workers.
> >
> > Business groups such as the Canadian Chamber of Commerce have been
calling
> > on the federal government to devise a national plan to deal with the
> > problem.
> >
> > Federal Immigration Minister Joe Volpe has suggested Ottawa may raise
> > Canada's immigration levels by up to 40 per cent over the next five
years.
> >
> > Earlier this year trade unions opposed a government program that
> > brought in
> > temporary foreign workers to help in Alberta's oilsands.
> >
> > Labour leaders were still a little skeptical Tuesday.
> >
> > "Is this really about immigrants or helping business get better access
to
> > cheap labour?" questioned Gil McGowan, president of the Alberta
Federation
> > of Labour.
> >
> > "We are not convinced the provincial government has done enough to help
> > groups of workers here in Alberta who could be trained to fill some of
> > these trades jobs."
> >
> > McGowan said earlier this year the province refused to help retrain 350
> > workers who lost jobs when Celanese Canada (NYSE:CE) closed its plant in
> > Fort Saskatchewan, Alta.
> >
> > "There are also pools and pockets of unemployed in aboriginal
communities.
> > Where is the government announcement aimed at them?"
> >
> > Alberta's jobless rate is about 3.5 per cent, a number the government
> > considers to be near to full employment.
> >
> > The province draws about seven per cent of Canada's immigrants, a
> > number it
> > hopes to increase to 10 per cent.
> >
> > Advanced Education Minister Dave Hancock said Alberta, a province built
> > largely by newcomers during its first 100 years, must depend on a wave
of
> > immigrants for its future.
> >
> > "We again need that stream of immigrant people who are prepared to come
> > here to live in a place that has a good quality of life, but where they
> > will have opportunities for themselves and their families."
> >
> > Last year about 65 per cent of immigrants who moved to Alberta had a
> > university degree, a non-university diploma or a trade certificate.
> >
> > Over the last three years most newcomers were from China, the
Phillipines,
> > India and Pakistan.
> >
> >
> > -----
> > Visit the Canadian Association for Free Expression's website:
> >
> > http://www.canadianfreespeech.com
> >
> >
>
>
|
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