In-Reply-To: <029301c5cf1b$63ed7460$1a27e218@wilde>
It is my view that money has not, and should not have, a value of itself.
I think the greatest disservice was done to mankind when we allowed those
who are not productive to achieve the domination of an accounting system.
Along with the claim to the ownership of the supply money.
The next step was the establishment in the eyes of men that money was
wealth, and that it had to have a real existence.
Nonsense of course, but persuasive.
Then we have the confusion that real wealth must have its backing of
money. How can that be ?
Ken.
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(EDT)Message-ID: <029301c5cf1b$63ed7460$1a27e218@wilde>
From: "Keith Wilde" <nschwartz@cogeco.ca>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
References: <dd.2dbbfce1.30597c72@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 06:54:59 -0400
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Subject: Re: [socialcredit] the accounting model
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A question for Michael--and anyone else who can help my feeble grasp on =
accounting: The process you describe here, of money values cancelling =
out, seems to leave a collection of physical assets that have no common =
numeraire. That is, no money value. Or is there a fund of cash 'on the =
other side', as seems to be suggested at one point? If there isn't some =
remnant of money values attached to the physical assets (and capital), =
how is the monetary authority to know how many tickets to print?
Keith Wilde
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Triumphofthepast@aol.com=20
To: socialcredit@elistas.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 9:15 AM
Subject: [socialcredit] the accounting model
Further thoughts on the accounting model:
Observation 1: A national balance sheet for the nation would be like =
combining the balance sheets of all the companies in the nation. In =
this process, certain things would change. For example, one company =
owes money to another. This normally appears as an asset on the balance =
sheets of both companies, a cash asset of the one and an accounts =
receivable asset of the other. In a combined balance sheet, we are not =
concerned with intercompany debt, and the accounts receivable will =
disappear, showing that there is really only one asset. But
Observation 2: Social credit understands money as tickets, an idea =
that is completely foreign to generally accepted accounting principles. =
In Douglas's national balance sheet, money ("cash" in accountants =
language) is not an asset at all, it is on the other side of the =
equation as a claim against a (physical) asset. But
Observation 3: The concept of a balance sheet is that it balances =
automatically. It is merely a reflection of the fact that an =
association is an artificial person that owns things on behalf of its =
individual members. So the association owns assets directly, but the =
individual members own them indirectly and ultimately. In a national =
balance sheet, we will have physical assets, we will have liabilities to =
foreign entities (internal liabilities will cancel out and disappear), =
and we will have the capital account. The capital account is a =
statement that the net assets of the association of the nation are owned =
on behalf of, and for the benefit of, us, the citizens. Capital assets =
are used by producers, who are always to an extent public agents, on our =
behalf; and consumer goods and services are what we actually take =
possession of. Therefore, pace Douglas, it seems to me that money as =
such should not appear on the balance sheet any more than tickets would =
appear on a theater's balance sheet. (A theater would record printing =
tickets as an expense but not tickets themselves as an asset.) If money =
did appear on the national balance sheet, it would (per the A+B Theorem) =
not balance.
The national balance sheet is not an accounting of money. It's an =
accounting of things, and then money is merely a device by which the =
members of the association take physical possession. In conventional =
accounting a dividend is really a dividend in money. In social credit =
accounting a dividend is really a dividend in things, and money is just =
a mechanism.
Michael=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A question for Michael--and anyone else =
who can=20
help my feeble grasp on accounting: The process you describe =
here, of=20
money values cancelling out, seems to leave a collection of physical =
assets that=20
have no common <EM>numeraire</EM>. That is, no money value.
=
Or is=20
there a fund of cash 'on the other side', as seems to be suggested at =
one point?=20
If there isn't some remnant of money values attached to the physical =
assets (and=20
capital), how is the monetary authority to know how many tickets to=20
print?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Keith Wilde</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DTriumphofthepast@aol.com=20
href=3D"mailto:Triumphofthepast@aol.com">Triumphofthepast@aol.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dsocialcredit@elistas.com=20
href=3D"mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 14, =
2005 9:15=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [socialcredit] the =
accounting=20
model</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 =
face=3D"Goudy Old Style"=20
size=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12">Further thoughts on the =
accounting=20
model:<BR><BR>Observation 1: A national balance sheet for the =
nation=20
would be like combining the balance sheets of all the companies in the =
nation. In this process, certain things would change. For =
example,=20
one company owes money to another. This normally appears as an =
asset on=20
the balance sheets of both companies, a cash asset of the one and an =
accounts=20
receivable asset of the other. In a combined balance sheet, we =
are not=20
concerned with intercompany debt, and the accounts receivable will =
disappear,=20
showing that there is really only one asset. =
But<BR><BR>Observation=20
2: Social credit understands money as tickets, an idea that is=20
completely foreign to generally accepted accounting principles. =
In=20
Douglas's national balance sheet, money ("cash" in accountants =
language) is=20
not an asset at all, it is on the other side of the equation as a =
claim=20
against a (physical) asset. But<BR><BR>Observation 3: The =
concept=20
of a balance sheet is that it balances automatically. It is =
merely a=20
reflection of the fact that an association is an artificial person =
that owns=20
things on behalf of its individual members. So the association =
owns=20
assets directly, but the individual members own them indirectly and=20
ultimately. In a national balance sheet, we will have physical =
assets,=20
we will have liabilities to foreign entities (internal liabilities =
will cancel=20
out and disappear), and we will have the capital account. The =
capital=20
account is a statement that the net assets of the association of the =
nation=20
are owned on behalf of, and for the benefit of, us, the =
citizens. =20
Capital assets are used by producers, who are always to an extent =
public=20
agents, on our behalf; and consumer goods and services are what we =
actually=20
take possession of. Therefore, pace Douglas, it seems to me that =
money=20
as such should not appear on the balance sheet any more than tickets =
would=20
appear on a theater's balance sheet. (A theater would record =
printing=20
tickets as an expense but not tickets themselves as an asset.) =
If money=20
did appear on the national balance sheet, it would (per the A+B =
Theorem) not=20
balance.<BR><BR>The national balance sheet is not an accounting of=20
money. It's an accounting of things, and then money is merely a =
device=20
by which the members of the association take physical =
possession. In=20
conventional accounting a dividend is really a dividend in =
money. In=20
social credit accounting a dividend is really a dividend in things, =
and money=20
is just a mechanism.<BR><BR>Michael</FONT>=20
=
<P><PRE>-----------------------------------------------------------------=
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<p><pre>-------------------------------------------------------------------
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