| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] RE: [NZ_Banking_Reform] Re: [socialcredit] RE: NOT TRUE(02) - the world is in the same boat. thecure is vigorously use democracy. | | Date: | Sunday, October 16, 2005 23:17:35 (+0000) | | From: | John G Rawson <johngrawson @.......com>
|
| In reply to: | Message 2959 (written by Joe Thomson) |
Joe, even you are not looking at the mechanism of removing the right to create
money from the banks. Henry will claim that the C.A. is autonymous, and
therefore answer your problem that way. But banks do create money. It is part
of their nature, like we breathe air. Removing that function from them requires
as much thought as enabling us to survive under water.
And I want someone who claims they have the knowledge to stop waffling and
answer the question. In particular, Hatterslee made proposals that made sense,
in his submissionsas circulated a while ago. A simple "yes" or "no" as to
whether these are approved would be a nice start.
One thing I am absolutely certain of, whether we pursue the political path or
the people stirring one. Neither can succeed unless we have understanding of a
reasonable influential portion of the population behind us. And this requires
some simple answers that are readily understandable, not the utterings of a
witch-doctor/priesthood cult trying to make it all as confusing as possible,
presumably to retain a monopoly of the knowledge.
Regards. John R.
From: Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
Reply-To:
socialcredit@elistas.com
To: socialcredit@elistas.com, paul@paulfromm.com,
NZ_Banking_Reform@yahoogroups.com
CC: Tim Leitch <TimLeitch@woosh.co.nz>,
"GeoffreyLawn >" <" <lawngd"@ihug.co.nz>, Garry Knapp <knapp.gt@xtra.co.nz>,
Darryl Coughey <darryl@pbtech.co.nz>, Fiona Clayton-Law
<callisto.fmcl@xtra.co.nz>, RobertCarroll <monques@i-link-2.net>, `Reg Williams
<reg2000@xtra.co.nz>, Alasdair Day <alasdairday@hotmail.com>, Barry Raynel
<barryray@clear.net.nz>, Bill Daly <b.daly@xtra.co.nz>, Carol
<carol@highland.co.nz>, "Colgan. Farms. Puni" <colgan.farms.puni@xtra.co.nz>,
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Bethune <donbeth@dominc.cjb.net>, Doug lever
<clever@ihug.co.nz>, errolBaird <ebaird@paradise.net.nz>, fletch Tabuteau
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<gpsteward@xtra.co.nz>, Holmes Gary <grholmes@xtra.co.nz>, Ian Andrews
<iandrews@ihug.co.nz>, Jami-lee Ross <jami.lee@xtra.co.nz>, Joe Pickens
<pickenz@hotmail.com>, John G Rawson <johngrawson@hotmail.com>, John Pemberton
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"N.Z. Democratic Party" <nzdp.inc@xtra.co.nz>, PeterChallen
<peter@southwark.org.uk>, Peter Haines <petros@ihug.co.nz>, PeterRaynel
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<mcgunnigle@win.co.nz>, "William B. Ryan" <w_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
[socialcredit] RE: [NZ_Banking_Reform] Re: [socialcredit] RE: NOT TRUE(02) - the
world is in the same boat. thecure is vigorously use democracy.
Date: Sun, 16
Oct 2005 14:14:27 -0700
>Hello Henry, and
John, and all,
>
>Thanks very much for your reply, Henry. It is much
appreciated. I have
>the greatest respect for Vic Bridger and the continued
efforts he's making
>to promote Social Credit in Australasia and worldwide. A
subject of which
>I'm sure he has one of the best understandings of anyone alive
today.
>
>That being said, part of John Rawson's response which I enclose
below,
>encapsulates the question that troubles me. Still. John said, and I quote
>:-
"As I understand it, Douglas advocated attacking the "monopoly" of
>credit
creation by allowing the Credit Authority also to create money and to
>use it in
sensible ways to overcome the shortage of purchasing power due to
>the system. If
he anywhere gave a mechanism for taking the creation of
>money completely away
from the banks, that is what I am asking
you to quote.
>Complete with where the hell the banks are going to get the money
they will
>lend, because we know they can NOT lend their deposits."
>
>The words
*completely away* in John's second sentence above are what I have
>a concern
with. For I, as I imagine does he, do not really see the "how" of
>the
alternative, i.e., vesting ALL new credit creation in a National
Credit
>Authority would work towards ENDING the ''monopoly of Credit", (though
it
>would most certainly end it in regards to 'private banking' ~ something
>which,
in my opinion, very much needs to be ended).
>
>Rather, I believe it would just
TRANSFER that 'monopoly' to the NCA. And
>the NCA, while it will be an agency of
'Government', (as are most country's
>central Banks), is still not ''the People"
as the community from whom
>'credit'
arises, and to whom it really belongs
>
>. Personally, I still do not think such
a 'transfer' is quite what Douglas
>envisioned in restoring 'credit' and its
control to its rightful 'owners'.
>(Though, as I tried to convey in my earlier
post, my mind IS open on the
>subject.)
>
>This is but one of the problems I see
with such a proposal. In the closing
>pages of Douglas's second book,
"Credit-Power and Democracy", (which
>unfortunately I don't have immediately at
hand right now ~ I've been
>re-reading it in the office at work yesterday, in
between customers ~ but I
>will, if necessary, find the exact quote later),
Douglas talks favorably
>about the encouragement of individual initiative and
inventiveness in
>private enterprise.
>
>Part of what is necessary for that
'individual initiative' to
flourish is
>access to 'credit'. As it stands at present, I or anyone else, as
an
>entrepreneur, have a multiplicity of sources from which financial
'credit'
>might be accessed. If I approach one bank, seeking a loan for some
new
>project I am certain will succeed, and for some reason am turned down, or
>not
presented with borrowing terms and conditions I find favourable, I can
>take my
business elsewhere. No 'ONE' private bank has a 'monopoly of credit'
>in this
aspect of their operations. Not yet, anyways.
>
>And I don't think we'd have to
search very far for examples of many
>successful enterprises making many of the
most familiar and now seemingly
>'necessary' products we know today, that, in
their formative period, were
>turned down for financing from one, (or more),
banks, only to finally secure
>it
elsewhere.
>
> Now what would happen if the 'private banks' were reduced to the
status of
>'on-lenders', and had to seek permission to make a loan to a
'producer' or
>'potential producer' from the NCA? Aside from being an easily
envisioned
>bureaucratic nightmare of inefficiency, the NCA, would in fact,
become an
>all-powerful entity, would it not? Is that the role Douglas envisioned
for
>it? At present, I think not. And where, in all of Douglas's writings,
of
>which I believe I've now seen most, does he call for the NCA (or
its
>equivalent), to get involved in deciding which PRODUCERS are to get
loans
>and which ones are not? This is what, if it exists, I would like to
see,
>directly from Douglas himself.
>
>It is my understanding that the NCA is
concerned with determining and
>issuing appropriate
CONSUMER credits, in the form of the National Dividend
>and the Compensated
Price Discount. And that's it. This is to be the way
>that CONSUMERS, all of us
in 'society', are to be credited with the benefits
>of aggreagate 'capital
appreciation' which is rightfully ours as a result of
>our ongoing unearned
increment of association and cultural heritage. And
>that, further, each cost
accountancy cycle can finally be made fully
>financially 'self-liquidating' in
any society with on-going 'labour
>displacement' through technological
progress..
>
>Further, Swanwick principle number two, "new credits" for production,
rather
>than from "savings", are, to my knowledge, simply conventional 'bank
loans'
>from private banks. Not loans to PRODUCERS from the NCA 'through' the
banks.
>
>When CONSUMERS are so credited, and
when the cycle IS fully
>'self-liquidating', the private bank's ability to
effect POLICY through
>their present "Monopoly of Credit" will be ended. Beyond
that, while like
>any natural 'monopoly', I believe they should most certainly be
'regulated'
>in the public interest, and subjected to some other very necessary
changes,
>I still fail to see where restricting them to being 'on-lenders' will
be
>necessary.
>
> We, in British Columbia, as have others in Western Canada,
have long been
>subjected to similar effects such a policy might bring about. The
large,
>eastern Canadian controlled chartered Banks have long kow-towed
to
>'centralized' lending 'policies' determined in their head-offices
far
>removed from this region. This has been, to us, an equivalent of sorts
to
>'on-lending'. And an ongoing, though now
diminished, (because there are now
>some Banks headquartered here or in western
Canada), source of discontent
>here as long as I can remember. Many a period of
local 'prosperity' was
>brought to an abrupt halt by a 'centralized' restriction
of 'credit'
>initiated elsewhere. It was the main reason given for BC's former
'Social
>Credit' League Government to seek the chartering of a Bank of
British
>Columbia, which would have operated as a conventional bank, only attuned
to
>BC conditions first.. The situation in New Zealand may indeed be
different,
>though in my opinion to vest any "Authority", public or private, with
such
>'absolute' power over ALL credit creation is not something I can
easily
>imagine Douglas being for.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Joe
Thomson
>
>
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