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Message 2952
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| Subject: | RE: [socialcredit] RE: [NZ_Banking_Reform] Re: [socialcredit] RE: NOT TRUE(02) - the world is in the same boat. thecure is vigorously use democracy. | | Date: | Saturday, October 15, 2005 15:16:18 (+1300) | | From: | Henry Raynel <henry.raynel @..........nz>
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Hello Joe Thomson, John Rawson and everybody,
I tried to keep postings brief but it proves you requires more than brief
information.
John Rawson informed me you had advised him on Douglas writings but you have
not quoted to me what you found of Douglas’s to justify your claim that
private bankers could and would be able to retain their right to own and
supply society with their credit supply, - (society’s credit money supply).
To help more on the issue I have done some limited research and will quote
some findings.
My study of Douglas gives evidence to the opposite, that Society should own
and operate its own credit. After all the credit does belong to the people
and surely they have a right to own and manage it.
I have tried to assist by giving you, John Rawson and all reading this the
most reliable authority on Social Credit Banking reform that I know of.
Obviously more could be researched. However I will endeavour to help you
with additional authoritative material including some of Douglas statements.
In the following I give you another authority by a gentleman who studied C H
Douglas and received the highest Social Credit education standard awarded
and it was awarded to him by the limited few distinguished Fellows of "The
Social Credit Secretariat". I understand he is now the only living student
holding this qualification. Arguably he has read and studied more of the 700
pieces of literature that is in C H Douglas’s library than any of us.
C H Douglas and a number of his committed close disciples originally
established this "Social Credit Secretariat" and its purpose was to
safeguarding the authenticity of Douglas Social Credit and Mr Victor Bridger
Director of the Social Credit School of Studies did his study under them.
I now quote briefly from Bridger’s book “Brief outline of Social Credit”
page 10.
…………………………
1. “That the power to produce must be balanced with the power to consume.
2. That the Monopoly of Credit must be terminated and the right to issue and
control all money and credit be vested in a statutory body as representing
the people.
3. That savings shall not be diverted from their proper function purchasing
power.
4. That Money and Credit be a means of Distribution only and not a commodity
to be bought and sold at interest
5. That provision of purchasing power must be made for those not employed or
displaced from industry by labour- saving machinery.
……………………..
Further still quoting Bridger:
1. That there must be at all times an equation between purchasing power and
prices, and that credit must be recalled only as goods are consumed.
2. That industry must be financed by Credits created for the purpose and not
by savings.
And on page 12 Bridger continues: APPLICATION OF THESE PRINCIPLES.
“It will be seen that these principles cover the defects in the existing
system, and that within them a solution is provided that is both
preventative and remedial. How can we put it this solution into practice???
The first step will be to establishment of a National Credit Authority to
take complete control of the money system and put the affairs of the nation
on a proper accountancy basis. This would restore money power to the people
and do away with the monopoly of Credit by private interests.
Quote in an article by C H Douglas in the Glasgow evening Times:
At a meeting of the Scottish Bankers Association a resolution was carried
instructing the committee to consider the terms, which bankers should ask on
being confronted with nationalisation, it being considered it was bound to
come. Douglas response;
“If for the word “nationalisation” the phrase “socialisation of credit’
were substituted I should agree.” Page 10 C H Douglas booklet
“RECONSTRUCTION”
PAGE 12 Douglas………….ONLY ONE CURE.
With the best will in the world to find a more complicated explanation of an
extremely complicated world situation, I find it impossible to arrive at any
conclusion other than that I endeavoured to put before my kindly Scots
audience at St Andrew’s Hall, and that is that the main cause of the world’s
economic difficulties at present time is the same in every country, and may
be found in the annexation and justifiable claim to the monopoly of public
credit by financial institutions. And fundamentally there can be only one
cure for this situation --- to place that credit at the disposal of those
from whom it arises --- that collection of individuals from which e agree to
call “the public”.
C H Douglas in his address 1936 page 7: - DICTATORSHIP BY TAXATION
………………………………..
May I make this point clear beyond all doubt? It is the claim to the
ownership of money, which is the core of the matter. Any person or any
organization who can create practically at will sums of money equivalent to
the price values of all the goods produced by the community is the virtual
owner of those goods, and, therefore, the claim of the banking system to the
ownership of the money which it creates is a claim to the ownership of the
country.
C H Douglas his book “CONTRL AND DISTRIBUTION OF PRODUCTION” page 18:
“………………But the deduction to be made from this is of transcendent
importance --- it is that to control industry in the interest of use-values
you must back use with credit. And that means the control of credit. And in
order to control credit the base on which it rests must be altered to meet
the changed aspirations of society. The economic power of labour is a
potential power. By withholding it, Labour (using the term in its widest
sense) can breakdown civilisation; but it cannot build it up again by any
agency that the mind of man has yet received which does not involve the use
of credit in some form or other. The community creates all the credit there
is; there is nothing what ever to prevent the community entering into its
own and dwelling therein except it shall be by sheer demonstrated inability
to seize the opportunity which at this very moment lies open to it; an
opportunity which if seized aright would within 10 years reduce class- war
to an absurdity and politics to the status of a disease”. End quote.
C H Douglas in his book “MONOPOLY OF CREDIT”PAGES 120,121
“If civilisation is not to disappear altogether, there will within a
comparatively short period of time arise a situation in which bankers as at
present understood will be replaced. It seems important to recognise that
when this situation does arise it will be just as easy to inaugurate a
financial system that will meet all the necessities of modern civilisation,
as to introduce piecemeal reforms. Here again there is much evidence of
inability to think clearly on the matter. Numbers of well disposed people
recognise the implacable hostility with which effective proposals are met,
and are tempted to say in effect “we cannot do the right thing, let us at
any rate do something”.
“Although it seems difficult to obtain general understanding of it,
fundamentally a financial system is a matter of pure arithmetic, and the
result which will be obtained depend entirely upon the arithmetical factors
which are employed and only to a very temporary extent on the particular
brand of black magic which is superimposed, Whatever may be the case in
other matters, compromise in arithmetic seems singularly out of place, and
it is much better that the present defective system should be allowed to
discredit its upholders, so to render genuine reconstruction possible, than
that an alternative, of which the effects are not sufficiently beneficial as
to place it at once in an impregnable position should be substituted for
it.” End quote.
These statements show C H Douglas did not believe banks should remain owners
of society’s money supply. There are more than one reason why society must
own its money supply, but the fact, that banker ownership gives the bankers
financial power to manipulate the economics of society, is sufficient reason
to change the ownership of money and to place that that ownership and
management in an independent state organization that is independent of both
private bankers and politicians.
Social Crediters should know that collectively bankers own and manage
trillions of dollars. In fact they have created and put into circulation and
manage every dollar in existence. These existing dollars are used to
manipulate every aspect of the industry and commerce of the world AND THE
LIVES OF EVERY HUMAN BEING. Because of their proven miss management and
their use of our Society’s credit.
For their own personal use to capture the economic control of all nations of
the world it surprises me that any student of C H Douglas Social Credit
could suggest that this credit and power should be remain with them.
About 4 Billions human beings in the world live in poverty about half of
them in abject poverty, --- leave existing Society’s Credit with the
bankers and the situation will continue to deteriorate.
Proper management of the economics of society will undoubtedly require the
proper scientific management of society’s money supply along the lines of my
previous posting.
For a variety of reasons some Social Crediters have acknowledged to me that
they have not done serious study of our founders writings. May I humbly
request that every Social Crediter does a serious study of the writings of C
H Douglas? Understanding present faulty economics becomes so much easier and
logical, that you will always be pleased that you did.
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Thomson [mailto:thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca]
Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2005 4:27 a.m.
To: socialcredit@elistas.com; NZ_Banking_Reform@yahoogroups.com;
paul@paulfromm.com
Cc: William B. Ryan; W. H. McGunnigle; Victor Bridger; Trevor Crosby;
Tony Cardy; Tom Elliott; Steve Baron; Stephniede Ruyter; Roger Monckton;
Rodney Shakespeare; Robert Balgarnie; Reg Williams; Raybaikie; Ray
Palmer; PeterRaynel; Peter Haines; PeterChallen; N.Z. Democratic Party;
Luke Bridgeman; LowellManning; Kent Deirdre; Jonathan Eisen; John
Rabarts; John Pemberton; John G Rawson; Joe Pickens; Jami-lee Ross; Ian
Andrews; Holmes Gary; Guy Steward; Gary Moson; fletch Tabuteau;
errolBaird; Doug lever; Don Bethune; David Wilson; DavidFletcher;
Colgan. Farms. Puni; Carol; Bill Daly; Barry Raynel; Alasdair Day; `Reg
Williams; RobertCarroll; Fiona Clayton-Law; Darryl Coughey; Garry Knapp;
GeoffreyLawn >
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] RE: [NZ_Banking_Reform] Re: [socialcredit]
RE: NOT TRUE(02) - the world is in the same boat. thecure is vigorously
use democracy.
Hello Henry, (and All),
Not to disagree with you, but to seek clarification of something which seems
to me to be somewhat of a sticking point on which many discussions about
Social Credit seem to stall.
You wrote, quoting from a publication put out by the SC Secretariat in
1994:- "The power to create money must be withdrawn from the commercial
banking system. The creation of the communities money supply, debt free,
must revert
to a government authority - a National Credit Authority...."
If the first sentence above had said, "The EXCLUSIVE power to create money
must be withdrawn from the commercial banking....", I wouldn't be asking
what I'm about to ask. But it does not. And so I must ask, just "where"
in C H Douglas's writings does he clearly say that the actual "CREATION" of
ALL 'money' is to be the exclusive purview of the NCA?
It is my current understanding, and I may well indeed be mistaken, that the
NCA, or National Credit "Office", I believe Douglas called it, was to be a
purely 'statistical' agency. Charged with instructing the central bank or
national Treasury to make the necessary payouts in regards to the National
Dividend and the Consumer Price Discount as apprporiate.
I have not seen from Douglas where "ALL" credit "creation" is to be actually
'centralized' in such an 'Authority'. I'm not saying for a moment such a
proposal may not have been made, though from what I've read of Douglas it
would seem to me to be counter to his constant call for "de-centralization".
And I have a bit of trouble envisioning just how such an arrangement as the
1994 Secretariat seems to propose would work without the danger that the NCA
could become 'master' over the people, rather than a 'servant' of them.
Could you please elaborate, or point me towards a reference in Douglas that
confirms the 1994 Secretariat's position?
Best wishes,
Joe Thomson.
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