| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] use of dividend | | Date: | Friday, November 11, 2005 12:52:40 (-0800) | | From: | William B. Ryan <w_b_ryan @.....com>
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| In reply to: | Message 3038 (written by Triumphofthepast) |
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Subject: use of dividend
Date: Friday, November 11, 2005 12:50:22 (EST)
From: Triumphofthepast <Triumphofthepast@aol.com>
"That the cash credits of the population...shall at
any moment be equal to the collective cash prices for
consumable goods" [Douglas]
"Falling income in respect to prices is addressed
through the Dividend, which puts additional purchasing
power into the hands of consumers." (Bill)
I assume we're talking about the same thing here,
right?
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[Reply] Not quite. The first quotation from Douglas
addresses the goal. The second addresses technique to
achieve the goal.
Remember that Douglas is thinking in terms of _rates_
not _quantities_ as in account balances. He disavows
the Quantity Theory of Money. By "cash credits"
equaling "cash prices" he is referring to the
situation where the flow of the costs of production
being impressed to the retail counter is concurrently
equaling the flow of sales over the retail counter.
In such a situation it can be said that supply is
equaling demand as matter of financial accounting.
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The phrases "prices for consumable goods" and "into
the hands of consumers" make it clear enough that the
dividend is tied to retail purchases, same as the
compensated price. I doubt Bill would include stock
prices when figuring "prices for consumable goods."
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[Reply] Of course not. But keep in mind that firms
sell goods, services AND securities, and would
continue to do so. The dividend relates not only to
retail purchases. Part of its justification is to
provide financial independence not tied to paid
employment or the banker. To the extent the dividend
recipient chooses to purchase securities rather than
consumer goods that might prospectively supplement his
future income, he has augmented his independence from
the caprice of the National Credit Authority
bureaucrat as well.
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Bill goes on to say that buying consumable goods is
investment anyway.
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[Reply] That's not what I said. Profit deriving from
sales to consumers supplies a fund available for
investment that is independent of the banker or Wall
Street. It is totally dependent on consumer choice.
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In social credit terms there is a vital distinction
between investing on the one hand and making consumer
purchases on the other. In arguing with the Kelso
people, we make a great point of saying that it is not
necessary or desirable to disperse investment
(administrative ownership). What people need is a
dividend (beneficiary ownership).
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[Reply] That's right. The ownership of stocks or
bonds really conveys merely beneficial ownership if
one does not own the controlling block of stock, or
bonds if the firm is in financial distress.
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It is an exact parallel of social credit political
philosophy, in which people are to exercise power by
ordering results (the consumer product), rather than
by direct input into the administrative process
(production). That's why it's an ARISTOCRACY of
producers serving a DEMOCRACY of consumers.
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[Reply] Which means that the economy is market driven
by the ultimate consumer. But the market can't work
if the financial system is screwed up.
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Calling consumer purchase "investment" blurs this
important distinction.
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[Reply] Which again I didn't do. See my reply above.
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