|
Hi Martin:
As you know, Social Credit is concerned with the
flow of purchasing power and prices. Any money that comes into existence
must have been debited to the cost of goods/services sold, and is recovered via
prices or taxes. The problem that Douglas identified in his A+B theorem is
due to physical capital (Land, equipment....) creating price values for which
there is no equivalent purchasing power created.
What you are doing when you tax an asset (i.e.
land) is create a price value (taxes are government prices) for which there was
no equivalent purchasing power created. Taxing rent is different than
taxing land. Taxing rent is equivalent to a sales tax. Just because
someone has $1,000,000 worth of land does not mean he has any income to pay the
taxes on that land.
I will quote Douglas again:
" This is another way of stating the theorem on
which stress has previously been laid in these pages. Under the existing
economic arrangements, industry cannot be carried on unless the price of an
article includes all the costs - ie dispensations of
purchasing-power-which have been incurred during its production. If a cost is
not included in the price, then the pricemaker becomes poorer, and eventually
goes out of business. You cannot
tax a capitalist-producer effectively
because his existence as a producer depends on his ability to pass on any
expense incurred to the consnmer. And it will be admitted by any unprejudiccd observer that
no excessive reluctance to avail himself of
this privilege is: noticeable in the behaviour of the a average
entrepreneur.
It is, however, possible to attack the Capital Levy
on more general grounds also, if it be realised that the situation with which we
are faced is only accentuated by and not fundamentally due to the destruction of
war. If the economic system under which we are working is a sound system, then
it is a flagrant "injustice" that such persons as do well out of it should be
penalised; and if it is unsound, as it is, then the Labour Party, which
clearly regards itself as the sole political concessionnire of justice, should
be too highminded to believe that an unjust system is improved by ,working it
unjustly."
I will also quote the MacMillan Committe
Testimony to make the point:
"4485: (Keynes)
If you raise the volume of credit to whatever
volume of whatever value of production you only have to go on increasing it in
proportion as production increases?
(Douglas) No; there are all sorts of
questions that would still arise. The question of turnover, depreciation
and the fact that the purchasing power of credit, or whatever you like to call
it, which has been transformed into price values of fixed assets in the
industrial sytem would in existing circumstances have to enter into the cost of
the goods - and cost items of that type would always raise the price of the
articles above the amount of purchasing power.
And so would a tax on an asset (i.e. land).
Taxing the appraised value of an asset would widen the gap between purchasing
power and prices/taxes.
And further:
4486. (Keynes) And if in the interval
you had to have new machines to replace old ones you would have to have
individuals to produce them. How does that differ from any other form of
consumption?
(Douglas) Because you are not starting from
zero. You are starting from the world as is.
4487.(Keynes) How does that bear on the
matter?
(Douglas) It bears on the matter that you
have a tremendous amount of real capital which at the present time is creating
prices and which has not contributed anything like that amount of purchasing
power."
Which is exactly what would happen if you taxed the
appaised value of land.
Take care,
Jim
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 9:27
PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] "The Ownership
Conference": Saturday 19th November 2005
> Jim -
>
> The money comes from the rents that the
landowner charges to his tenants, or
> is a tax on the value of the
natural resources that land ownership makes
> available. This is a simple
redistribution of an existing money supply, and
> of course does not
relate to the overall problem that Douglas identifies.
>
> But I do
believe that, just as the "Monopoly of Credit" puts a publicly
> created
asset (the nation's credit) in private and monopolistic hands, so
> the
enclosure of common lands, and the conversion of a civilization into
>
classes of landowners (rich) and tenants (poor), is also the monopolization
> of an asset given value by the community, and as such is to be
resisted.
>
> In English economic history, note the "sturdy
beggars" of Elizabethan times,
> the result of enclosure of common lands:
the depopulation of the Scottish
> Highlands, again the result of
enclosures by landlords, and the Irish potato
> famine - all of these
leading to emigration by those who had to pay rent to
> places where free
land was still available. In Canada, note the poverty
> imposed on the
first nations as the white man moved onto their hunting
> grounds, and
they were put on "reserves". Ownership of land is a source of
> unearned
income, and as such, some way of fair distribution of this income
> is
justified.
>
> Martin Hattersley
> 1970-10123-99 St.,
>
EDMONTON AB CANADA
> Phone (780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247
> e-mail:
hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim"
<jschroeder@shaw.ca>
> To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
>
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 12:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit]
"The Ownership Conference": Saturday 19th
> November 2005
>
>
>> Hi Martin:
>>
>> The only problem that I
forsee if the proceeds are used to pay a dividend
>> is where does the
money come from? The asset worth $1,000,000 is not
>> $1,000,000
in money.
>>
>> Jim
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Martin Hattersley" <hattersleyjm@interbaun.com>
>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 4:31 PM
>>
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] "The Ownership Conference": Saturday 19th
>> November 2005
>>
>>
>>> This is a
multi-part message in MIME format.
>>> Mime-Version:
1.0
>>> Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
>>>
boundary="=======AVGMAIL-437D12EA00F9======="
>>>
>>>
--=======AVGMAIL-437D12EA00F9=======
>>> Content-Type:
multipart/alternative;
>>>
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0043_01C5EB94.6B658670"
>>>
>>>
------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C5EB94.6B658670
>>> Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
>>>
>>> What, though, if the proceeds
of such a tax were used to finance a =
>>> dividend payment to
all?
>>>
>>> Martin Hattersley
>>>
1970-10123-99 St. Edmonton AB Canada
>>> Phone (780)423-2081; Fax
(780)425-5247
>>> e-mail: jmartinh@shaw.ca;
>>>
hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message
-----=20
>>> From: Jim=20
>>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com=20
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:52
AM
>>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] "The Ownership Conference":
Saturday 19th =
>>> November
2005
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi
Martin:
>>>
>>> I don't think it makes a
difference whether it's a single tax based on =
>>> percentage of
site value, or a death duty. I think the important point =
>>>
is that you never tax any asset, because there is a difference between
=
>>> an asset (i.e. land) valued at $1,000,000 and actually having
=
>>> $1,000,000. The government will not accept land in
payment for taxes; =
>>> they will only accept money. And I
think what will happen as a result =
>>> of taxing any asset is
explained aptly by Douglas. I think there will =
>>> be a real
wealth transfer from the poor to the rich, and from =
>>>
individuals to the state.
>>>
>>> Take
care,
>>>
>>>
Jim
>>> ----- Original Message
-----=20
>>> From: Martin
Hattersley=20
>>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com=20
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 8:37
PM
>>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] "The Ownership
Conference": Saturday =
>>> 19th November
2005
>>>
>>>
>>> That's an
interesting quote - but my understanding of George was =
>>> that
his main remedy was a "single tax" based on a percentage of site
=
>>> value, rather than a Capital Levy which Douglas is discussing
in this =
>>> passage (and which, through Death Duties in
particular, really did =
>>> decimate the Stately Homes of
England).
>>>
>>> Martin
Hattersley
>>> 1970-10123-99
St.,=20
>>> EDMONTON AB
CANADA
>>> Phone
(780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247
>>> e-mail:
hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
----- Original Message -----=20
>>>
From: Jim=20
>>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com=20
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 16,
2005 9:43 AM
>>> Subject: Re:
[socialcredit] "The Ownership Conference": Saturday =
>>> 19th
November
2005
>>>
>>>
>>>
Hi Jock:
>>>
>>> You're a
Georgist aren't
you?
>>>
>>> I will quote
Douglas from "Credit-Power and
Democracy":
>>>
>>>
CHAPTER VII
>>>
>>>
ANOTHER of the cliches to which the official Labour organisations
=
>>> have committed themselves is that which goes by the name of
the Capital =
>>> Levy" in its various forms. It is so superficially
familiar to everyone =
>>> interested in these matters that no
extended description of it is =
>>> necessary; with variations it
may be described as a graduated and =
>>> ostensibly non-recurring
tax on the money-value of individual property, =
>>> real and
personal, such value being estimated, not by its earning power,
>>>
=
>>> but on some basis such as market price or expert
estimation.
>>>
>>> At
first sight such a levy is an attractive expedient to a party =
>>>
concerned with the flagrant disparity in worldly circumstances to which"
>>> =
>>> Capitalism" has at the moment brought us. If
we can believe that there =
>>> is a fixed amount of wealth in the
world, and we see, as we do, that =
>>> some have the good things of
life while many have hardly the =
>>> necessaries, it would appear
an easy path to greater "justice" to take =
>>> some of the "wealth"
off the fortunate ones, even thongh you do not =
>>> directly give
it to the remainder. Let us examine the project more =
>>> closely,
therefore.
>>>
>>> The law
recognises two main classes of capital: "real"-'i.e., =
>>> land,
houses, etc.; and "personal "-i.e., stocks and shares, cash, etc.,
>>> =
>>> 'which latter are ultimately claims to some
sort of "real" property. =
>>> That is to say, ultimately all
property of any kind or description is a =
>>> claim on
realty.
>>>
>>> Now,
imagine all money values above, say, =A35,000 held by =
>>>
individuals to be subjected to a capital levy. 'What actually happens '?
>>> =
>>> The levy, remember, is on individuals by the
"State." The State has no =
>>> concrete use for realty; it does
not, broadly speaking, administer =
>>> productive undertakings;
consequently what it requires is a transfer of =
>>> credit which'
it can apply say, to tho reduction of the National Debt, =
>>> which
in itself is an agency for distributing purchasing-
power.
>>>
>>> Now,
however steeply you graduate a tax it must leave some men
=
>>> "richer" than others. Remembering this, consider the course of
events =
>>> when the tax is collected. The owner of land has to
sell to "raise" the =
>>> money for the tax. Who buys that land?
Similarly, the owner of stocks =
>>> and money parts with these. Who
gets them ~ There are two
answers.
>>>
>>> If the
titles to the land or shares are thrown on the market =
>>> together
there will be a slump in "values" which will affect not only =
>>>
those who are taxed but those who are not taxed, in so far as they have
=
>>> any possessions other than money. At first sight this seems a
desirable =
>>> result, but on further consideration it will be seen
that as the =
>>> National Debt. is a money-debt, not a "realty"
debt, such a slump in =
>>> values increases the real Weight of the
debt, because it requires a =
>>> larger transfer of property at the
lower price to liquidate a unit =
>>> quantity of it. Since, as we
have agreed, this transfer of actual =
>>> property cannot be to the
State in propria persona, it must be from =
>>> persons with less
money to persons with more money; and the greater the =
>>> fall in
yalues, the greater would be this transfer of real wealth from =
>>>
the less rich to the more rich. That is one possible answer. But there
=
>>> is a modification of this process possible. In order to avoid
the fall =
>>> in values that the liquidation of large blocks of
securities would =
>>> entail, the banks would be besieged for
overdrafts withwhich to meet the
>>> =
>>> cans of the
levy. Which class of applicants would receive preference in =
>>>
this scramble for credit-issue ~ Undoubtedly those whose prospect of
=
>>> repayment seemed to rest on the surest foundation; and, unless
the =
>>> previous arguments have failed of their purpose, it will
be plain that =
>>> whatever costs may be incurred by a produccr
(who controls a market can
>>> =
>>> be recoupcd
by him in prices from the consumer. Consequently, the banks =
>>>
would extend credit most readily to those whose power of price-making
=
>>> gave assurance of their ability to collect the levy, in so far
as it =
>>> affected them, from the public, together with the bank's
interest on the
>>> =
>>> loan. Such persons would not
only not have to part with any property, =
>>> but would probably be
found in a position of commanding advantage from =
>>> which to
acquire the property thrown on the market by their less =
>>>
fortunate=B7 neighbours-a result which, though differing slightly in
=
>>> method results in the same conclusion as in the previous case:
that =
>>> instead of such a levy being a transfer from the rich to
the poor it =
>>> ,becomes a transfer from the consume; to the
price-maker and the =
>>>
credit-issuer.
>>>
>>>
This is another way of stating the theorem on which stress has =
>>>
previously been laid in these pages. Under the existing economic
=
>>> arrangements, industry cannot be carried on unless the price
of an =
>>> article includes all the costs - ie dispensations of
=
>>> purchasing-power-which have been incurred during its
production. If a =
>>> cost is not included in the price, then the
pricemaker becomes poorer, =
>>> and eventually goes out of
business. You cannot tax a =
>>> capitalist-producer effectively
because his existence as a producer =
>>> depends on his ability to
pass on any expense incurred to the consnmer. =
>>> And it will be
admitted by any unprejudiccd observer that no excessive =
>>>
reluctance to avail himself of this privilege is: noticeable in the
=
>>> behaviour of the a average
entrepreneur.
>>>
>>> It
is, however, possible to attack the Capital Levy on more =
>>>
general grounds also, if it be realised that the situation with which we
>>> =
>>> are faced is only accentuated by and not
fundamentally due to the =
>>> destruction of war. If the economic
system under which we are working is
>>> =
>>> a sound
system, then it is a flagrant "injustice" that such persons as =
>>>
do well out of it should be penalised; and if it is unsound, as it is,
=
>>> then the Labour Party, which clear;y regards itself as the
sole =
>>> political concessionnire of justice, should be too
highminded to believe
>>> =
>>> that an unjust system
is improved by ,working it
unjustly.
>>>
>>> The
cnpitalist system is tottering to its fall, but, like the =
>>>
Bolshevik Government, which (according to official communiques) began to
>>> =
>>> totter at its birth, and has continued to
totter until it has infected =
>>> half the world with its
congenital instability, it may carryon for a =
>>> long while, if
its opponents obligingly dcmonstrate at short intervals =
>>> their
inability to supplant it by something
better."
>>>
>>>
(Credit-Power and Democracy Pge.
69-76)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Take care,
>>>
>>>
Jim
>>>
>>>
----- Original Message
-----=20
>>> From: Jock
Coats=20
>>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com=20
>>> Sent: Wednesday,
November 16, 2005 4:21
AM
>>> Subject: Re:
[socialcredit] "The Ownership Conference": Saturday =
>>> 19th
November
2005
>>>
>>>
>>>
Oi!
>>>
>>>
>>>
I'm no
socialist...:)=20
>>>
>>>
>>>
Do you think I'll be training
some?
>>>
>>>
>>>
Jock
>>>
>>>
>>>
On 14 Nov 2005, at 21:26, Jim
wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
It seems Mr. Douglas was absolutely correct about the London =
>>>
School of Economics being the training ground for
socialists.
>>>
>>>
Jim
>>>
"From Ownership into
Stewardship"
>>>
"Private Property may not actually be
theft
>>>
- but it has some pretty nasty
habits!"
>>>
>>>
The contributions will
include:
>>>
Jock Coates: Community Land
Trusts
>>>
--
>>> Jock Coats,
Oxfordshire Community Land
Trusts,
>>> jock.coats@oclt.org.uk=20
>>> http://www.oclt.org.uk/=20
>>> c/o Wardens'
Lodgings, Flat 1e Block J, Morrell Hall, OXFORD, =
>>> OX3
0FF
>>> Mobile: 07769
695767
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
at
>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email
jschroeder@shaw.ca
>>> For
more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>
>>>
>>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
at
>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email
hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
>>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>>
-
>>>
>>>
>>>
No virus found in this incoming
message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free
Edition.
>>> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus
Database: 267.13.3/173 - Release Date: =
>>>
16/11/2005
>>>
>>>
>>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
at
>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email
jschroeder@shaw.ca
>>> For
more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>>
---
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus
found in this outgoing message.
>>> Checked by AVG
Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus
Database: 267.13.3/173 - Release Date: =
>>>
16/11/2005
>>>
>>>
>>>
=
>>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
=
>>> at
>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> You're subscribed to this list
with the email jschroeder@shaw.ca
>>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>
>>>
>>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
at
>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email
hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
>>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>>
-----
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in
this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free
Edition.
>>> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.3/174 -
Release Date: =
>>> 11/17/2005
>>>
>>>
------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C5EB94.6B658670
>>> Content-Type:
text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
>>>
>>> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC
"-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>>
<HTML><HEAD>
>>> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type
content=3D"text/html; =
>>>
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>> <META content=3D"MSHTML
6.00.2900.2769" name=3DGENERATOR>
>>>
<STYLE></STYLE>
>>> </HEAD>
>>>
<BODY=20
>>> style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; khtml-nbsp-mode:
space; =
>>> khtml-line-break: after-white-space"=20
>>>
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2>What, though, if the proceeds of such a
>>>
=
>>> tax were=20
>>> used to finance a dividend payment
to all?</FONT></DIV>
>>> <DIV><BR>Martin
Hattersley<BR>1970-10123-99 St. Edmonton AB =
>>>
Canada<BR>Phone=20
>>> (780)423-2081; Fax
(780)425-5247<BR>e-mail: <A=20
>>> href=3D"mailto:jmartinh@shaw.ca">jmartinh@shaw.ca</A>;<BR><A=20
>>> href=3D"mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun.com">hattersleyjm@interbaun.com</A>=
>>> </DIV>
>>>
<DIV> </DIV>
>>>
<DIV> </DIV>
>>>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
>>> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT:
5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid;
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt
arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
>>>
<DIV=20
>>> style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial;
font-color: =
>>>
black"><B>From:</B>=20
>>> <A title=3Djschroeder@shaw.ca
=
>>> href=3D"mailto:jschroeder@shaw.ca">Jim</A> </DIV>
>>> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt
arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
>>> title=3Dsocialcredit@elistas.com=20
>>> href=3D"mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> =
>>> </DIV>
>>>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday,
November 17, =
>>> 2005 8:52=20
>>>
AM</DIV>
>>> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt
arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [socialcredit] =
>>>
"The=20
>>> Ownership Conference": Saturday 19th November
2005</DIV>
>>>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
>>> <DIV><FONT
face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi
Martin:</FONT></DIV>
>>> <DIV><FONT
face=3DArial
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't think it makes a difference
=
>>> whether it's=20
>>> a single tax based on
percentage of site value, or a death duty. =
>>> I
think=20
>>> the important point is that you never tax any
asset, because there is =
>>> a=20
>>> difference
between an asset (i.e. land) valued at $1,000,000 and =
>>>
actually=20
>>> having $1,000,000. The
government will not accept land in =
>>>
payment=20
>>> for taxes; they will only accept
money. And I think what will =
>>> happen
as=20
>>> a result of taxing any asset is explained aptly by
Douglas. I =
>>> think=20
>>> there will
be a real wealth transfer from the poor to the rich, and =
>>>
from=20
>>> individuals to the
state.</FONT></DIV>
>>> <DIV><FONT
face=3DArial
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Take
care,</FONT></DIV>
>>> <DIV><FONT
face=3DArial
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2>Jim</FONT></DIV>
>>>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
>>> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px;
PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>> <DIV
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
</DIV>
>>>
<DIV=20
>>> style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT:
10pt arial; font-color: =
>>>
black"><B>From:</B>=20
>>> <A
title=3Dhattersleyjm@interbaun.com=20
>>> href=3D"mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun.com">Martin Hattersley</A> =
>>>
</DIV>
>>> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt
arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
>>> title=3Dsocialcredit@elistas.com=20
>>> =
>>> href=3D"mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> =
>>>
</DIV>
>>> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt
arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 16, =
>>>
2005 8:37=20
>>>
PM</DIV>
>>> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt
arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [socialcredit] =
>>>
"The=20
>>> Ownership Conference": Saturday 19th
November 2005</DIV>
>>>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
>>>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>That's an interesting quote - but my
=
>>> understanding of=20
>>> George
was that his main remedy was a "single tax" based on a =
>>>
percentage of=20
>>> site value, rather than a
Capital Levy which Douglas is discussing =
>>> in
this=20
>>> passage (and which, through Death
Duties in particular, really did =
>>>
decimate=20
>>> the Stately Homes of
England).</FONT></DIV>
>>>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Martin Hattersley<BR>1970-10123-99 St.,
=
>>> <BR>EDMONTON AB=20
>>>
CANADA<BR>Phone (780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247<BR>e-mail:
<A=20
>>> =
>>> href=3D"mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun.com">hattersleyjm@interbaun.com</A>=
>>>
</FONT></DIV>
>>> <DIV><FONT
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
>>> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px;
PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
=
>>> </DIV>
>>>
<DIV=20
>>> style=3D"BACKGROUND:
#e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
>>>
black"><B>From:</B>=20
>>>
<A title=3Djschroeder@shaw.ca
=
>>> href=3D"mailto:jschroeder@shaw.ca">Jim</A>=20
>>>
</DIV>
>>> <DIV
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
>>>
title=3Dsocialcredit@elistas.com=20
>>> =
>>>
href=3D"mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> =
>>>
</DIV>
>>> <DIV
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November
=
>>> 16, 2005=20
>>> 9:43
AM</DIV>
>>> <DIV
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [socialcredit]
=
>>> "The=20
>>>
Ownership Conference": Saturday 19th November
2005</DIV>
>>>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
>>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi
Jock:</FONT></DIV>
>>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You're a Georgist aren't
=
>>>
you?</FONT></DIV>
>>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I will quote Douglas from
=
>>> "Credit-Power
and=20
>>>
Democracy":</FONT></DIV>
>>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"
size=3D4>
>>> <P
align=3Dleft>CHAPTER </FONT><B><FONT face=3D"Times New
Roman"=20
>>>
size=3D4>VII</P></B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New
Roman" =
>>>
size=3D1>
>>> <P
align=3Dleft>ANOTHER </FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">of
=
>>> the cliches=20
>>>
to which the official Labour organisations have committed =
>>>
themselves is=20
>>> that which goes
by the name of the Capital Levy" in its various =
>>>
forms.=20
>>> <U>It is so
superficially familiar to everyone interested in these =
>>>
matters=20
>>> that no extended
description of it is necessary; with variations =
>>> it may
be=20
>>> described as a graduated and
ostensibly non-recurring tax on
the=20
>>> money-value of individual
property, real and personal, such value =
>>>
being=20
>>> estimated, not by its
earning power, but on some basis such as =
>>>
market=20
>>> price or expert
estimation.</U></P>
>>>
<P align=3Dleft>At first sight such a levy is an attractive
=
>>> expedient to
a=20
>>> party concerned with the
flagrant disparity in worldly =
>>> circumstances
to=20
>>> which" Capitalism" has at
the moment brought us. If we can believe =
>>>
that=20
>>> there is a fixed amount of
wealth in the world, and we see, as we =
>>> do,
that=20
>>> some
have <FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">the good things of
=
>>> life while=20
>>>
many have hardly the necessaries, it would appear an easy path to
=
>>> greater=20
>>>
"justice" to take some of the "wealth" off the fortunate ones, =
>>>
even thongh=20
>>> you do not directly
give it to the remainder. Let us examine the =
>>>
project=20
>>> more closely,
therefore.</P>
>>> <P
align=3Dleft>The law recognises two main classes of
=
>>> capital:=20
>>>
"real"-'i.e., land, houses, etc.; and "personal
</FONT><I><FONT=20
>>>
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>"-i.e.,
</I></FONT><FONT=20
>>>
face=3D"Times New Roman">stocks and shares, cash, etc., 'which
=
>>> latter are=20
>>>
ultimately claims to some sort of "real" property. That is to say,
=
>>>
>>> ultimately all
property of any kind or description is a claim
on=20
>>>
realty.</P></FONT>
>>>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT
=
>>>
face=3DArial>N</FONT>ow,=20
>>>
imagine all money values above, say, =A35,000 held by individuals
=
>>> to be=20
>>>
subjected to a capital levy. 'What actually happens '? The levy,
=
>>> remember,=20
>>> is
</FONT><I><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">on
</I></FONT><FONT=20
>>>
face=3D"Times New Roman">individuals
</FONT><I><FONT=20
>>>
face=3D"Times New Roman">by </I></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New
=
>>> Roman">the=20
>>>
"State." The State has no concrete use for realty; it does not,
=
>>> broadly=20
>>>
speaking, administer productive undertakings; consequently what it
=
>>>
>>> requires is a
transfer of credit which' it can apply say, to tho =
>>>
reduction=20
>>> of the National Debt,
which in itself is an agency for =
>>>
distributing=20
>>>
purch</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">asing-
power.</P>
>>> <P
align=3Dleft>Now, however steeply you graduate a
<FONT=20
>>> face=3D"Times New
Roman">tax it must leave some men "richer" than =
>>>
others.=20
>>> Remembering this,
consider the course of events when the tax is =
>>>
collected.=20
>>> The owner of land
has to sell to "raise" the money for the
tax.=20
>>>
</FONT><I><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Who buys that
land?=20
>>>
</I></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Similarly, the owner
of =
>>> stocks and=20
>>>
money parts with these. Who gets them ~ There are two
answers.</P>
>>> <P
align=3Dleft>If the titles to the land or shares are thrown on
=
>>> the market=20
>>>
together there will be a slump in "values" which will affect not
=
>>> only=20
>>> those
who are taxed but those who are not taxed, in so far as they =
>>>
have=20
>>> any possessions other than
money. At</FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
>>>
size=3D3>=20
>>>
</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">first sight this seems a
=
>>> desirable=20
>>>
result, but on further consideration it will be seen that as the
=
>>> National=20
>>>
Debt. is a money-debt, not a "realty" debt, such a slump in values
=
>>>
>>>
</FONT><I><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>increases
the =
>>> real Weight
of=20
>>> the debt,
</I></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">because it
=
>>> requires a=20
>>>
larger transfer of property at the lower price to liquidate a unit
=
>>>
>>> quantity of it.
Since, as we have agreed, this transfer of actual =
>>>
property=20
>>> cannot be to the State
</FONT><I><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
>>>
size=3D3>in=20
>>> propria persona,
</I></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">it must
=
>>> be from=20
>>>
persons with less money to persons with more money; and the =
>>>
greater the=20
>>> fall in yalues, the
greater would be this <FONT=20
>>>
face=3D"Times New Roman">transfer of real wealth from the less
=
>>> rich to the=20
>>>
more rich. That is one possible answer. But there is a =
>>>
modification of=20
>>> this process
possible. In order to avoid the fall in values that =
>>>
the=20
>>> liquidation of large blocks
of securities would entail, the banks =
>>> would
be=20
>>> besieged for overdrafts
withwhich to meet the cans of the levy. =
>>>
Which=20
>>> class of applicants would
receive preference in this scramble
for=20
>>> credit-issue ~ Undoubtedly
those whose prospect of repayment =
>>> seemed
to=20
>>> rest on the surest
foundation; and, unless the previous arguments =
>>>
have=20
>>> failed of their purpose,
it will be plain that
</FONT><I><FONT=20
>>>
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>whatever costs may be incurred
=
>>>
</FONT><FONT=20
>>>
face=3D"Times New Roman">by </FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"
=
>>> size=3D3>a=20
>>>
produccr (who </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
>>>
size=3D1> </FONT><FONT=20
>>>
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>controls a market can be =
>>>
recoupcd by him in=20
>>> prices from
the consumer.
</I></FONT><FONT=20
>>>
face=3D"Times New Roman">Consequently, the banks would extend
=
>>> credit most=20
>>>
readily to those whose power of price-making gave assurance of =
>>>
their=20
>>> ability to collect the
levy, in so far as it affected them, from =
>>>
the=20
>>> public, together with the
bank's interest on the loan. Such =
>>> persons
would=20
>>> not only not have to part
with any property, but would probably be =
>>>
found=20
>>> in a position of
commanding advantage from which to acquire =
>>>
<FONT=20
>>> face=3D"Times New
Roman">the property thrown on the market by =
>>> their
less=20
>>> fortunate=B7 neighbours-a
result which, though differing slightly =
>>> in
method=20
>>> results in the same
conclusion as in the previous case: that =
>>> instead
of=20
>>> such a levy being a transfer
from the rich to the poor it ,becomes =
>>>
a=20
>>> transfer from the consume; to
the price-maker and the =
>>>
credit-issuer.</P>
>>> <P
align=3Dleft>This is another way of stating the theorem on =
>>>
which stress=20
>>> has previously
been laid in these pages. Under the existing =
>>>
economic=20
>>> arrangements, industry
cannot be carried on unless the price of an =
>>>
article=20
>>> includes all the costs
- ie</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New
Roman"=20
>>>
size=3D1> </FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New
Roman">dispensations =
>>>
of=20
>>> purchasing-power-which have
been incurred during its production. =
>>> If a
cost=20
>>> is not included in the
price, then the pricemaker becomes poorer, =
>>>
and=20
>>> eventually goes out of
business.
</FONT><I><FONT=20
>>>
face=3D"Times New Roman">You cannot tax a
</FONT><FONT=20
>>>
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>capitalist-producer effectively
=
>>> because his=20
>>>
existence as a producer depends on his ability to pass on any =
>>>
expense=20
>>> incurred to the
consnmer. </I></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New =
>>>
Roman">And it=20
>>> will be
admitted by any unprejudiccd observer that no </FONT><FONT
=
>>>
>>> face=3D"Times
New Roman">excessive reluctance to avail himself of =
>>>
this=20
>>> privilege is: noticeable
in the behaviour of the a
average=20
>>>
entrepreneur.</FONT></P><FONT face=3D"Times New
Roman"><FONT=20
>>>
face=3D"Times New Roman">
>>> <P
align=3Dleft>It is, however, possible to attack the Capital =
>>>
Levy on more=20
>>> general grounds
also, if it be realised that the situation with =
>>> which
we=20
>>> are faced is only
accentuated by and not fundamentally due to
the=20
>>> destruction of war. If the
economic system under which we are =
>>> working is
a=20
>>> sound system, then it is a
flagrant "injustice" that such persons =
>>> as
do=20
>>> well out of it should be
penalised; and if it is unsound, as it =
>>> is,
then=20
>>> the Labour Party, which
clear;y regards itself as the sole =
>>>
political=20
>>> concessionnire of
justice, should be too highminded to believe =
>>> that
an=20
>>> unjust system is improved by
,working it unjustly.</P>
>>>
<P align=3Dleft>The cnpitalist system is tottering to its fall,
=
>>> but, like=20
>>> the
Bolshevik Government, which (according to official =
>>>
communiques) began=20
>>> to totter at
its birth, and has continued to totter until it has =
>>>
infected=20
>>> half the world with
its congenital instability, it may carryon for =
>>> a
long=20
>>> while, if its opponents
obligingly dcmonstrate at short intervals =
>>>
their=20
>>> inability to
supplant it</FONT><FONT face=3DArial> =
>>>
</FONT><FONT=20
>>>
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>by
</FONT><FONT=20
>>>
face=3D"Times New Roman">something
better."</FONT></P>
>>>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT
face=3DArial=20
>>>
size=3D2>(Credit-Power and Democracy Pge.
69-76)</FONT></FONT></P>
>>>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT
face=3DArial=20
>>>
size=3D2></FONT></FONT> </P>
>>>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT face=3DArial
=
>>>
size=3D2>Take=20
>>>
care,</FONT></FONT></P>
>>>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT
face=3DArial=20
>>> =
>>>
size=3D2>Jim</FONT></P></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
>>>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>>>
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
=
>>> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT:
0px">
>>> <DIV
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
>>>
</DIV>
>>>
<DIV=20
>>>
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
>>>
black"><B>From:</B>=20
>>>
<A title=3Djock.coats@oxfordshirecommunitylandtrusts.org.uk=20
>>>
=
>>> href=3D"mailto:jock.coats@oxfordshirecommunitylandtrusts.org.uk">Jock=20
>>>
Coats</A>
</DIV>
>>> <DIV
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B>
<A=20
>>> title=3Dsocialcredit@elistas.com=20
>>> =
>>>
href=3D"mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com">socialcredit@elistas.com</A>=20
>>>
</DIV>
>>> <DIV
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November
=
>>> 16,
2005=20
>>> 4:21
AM</DIV>
>>> <DIV
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
>>>
[socialcredit] "The=20
>>>
Ownership Conference": Saturday 19th November
2005</DIV>
>>>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
>>>
<DIV>Oi!</DIV>
>>>
<DIV><BR class=3Dkhtml-block-placeholder></DIV>I'm no
=
>>>
socialist...:)=20
>>>
<DIV><BR
class=3Dkhtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
>>>
<DIV>Do you think I'll be training
some?</DIV>
>>>
<DIV><BR
class=3Dkhtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
>>>
<DIV>Jock</DIV>
>>>
<DIV><BR>
>>>
<DIV>
>>>
<DIV>On 14 Nov 2005, at 21:26, Jim
wrote:</DIV><BR=20
>>>
class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
>>>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><SPAN
class=3DApple-style-span=20
>>>
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; =
>>>
TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE:
=
>>> normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate;
=
>>> border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect:
none; =
>>> apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows:
2">
>>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
>>>
class=3DApple-style-span=20
>>>
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">It seems Mr. =
>>>
Douglas
was=20
>>>
absolutely correct about the London School of Economics being =
>>>
the=20
>>>
training ground for
socialists.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
>>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
>>>
class=3DApple-style-span=20
>>>
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: =
>>>
Arial">Jim</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
>>>
<BLOCKQUOTE
dir=3Dltr=20
>>>
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
>>>
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT:
0px">
>>>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#da456b =
>>>
size=3D+4><B=20
>>>
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 37px; COLOR: =
>>>
rgb(218,69,107); FONT-FAMILY: Times New
Roman"><SPAN=20
>>>
class=3DApple-style-span=20
>>>
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 37px; COLOR: =
>>>
rgb(218,69,107); FONT-FAMILY: Times New
Roman">"From=20
>>>
Ownership into
Stewardship"</SPAN></B></FONT></DIV>
>>>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#000000 =
>>>
size=3D+3><I=20
>>>
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 24px; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: =
>>>
Times New
Roman"><SPAN=20
>>>
class=3DApple-style-span=20
>>>
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 24px; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: =
>>>
Times New
Roman">"Private=20
>>>
Property may not actually be
theft</SPAN><BR=20
>>>
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 24px; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: =
>>>
Times New
Roman"><SPAN=20
>>>
class=3DApple-style-span=20
>>>
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 24px; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: =
>>>
Times New
Roman">-=20
>>>
but it has some pretty nasty
habits!"</SPAN></I></FONT><FONT
=
>>>
>>>
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#000000
size=3D+2><BR=20
>>>
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New =
>>>
Roman"></FONT><FONT=20
>>>
color=3D#000000
size=3D+2></FONT></DIV>
>>>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000
size=3D+1><B=20
>>>
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE:
14px"><SPAN=20
>>>
class=3DApple-style-span=20
>>>
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14px">The =
>>>
contributions
will=20
>>>
include:</SPAN></B></FONT></DIV>
>>>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000
size=3D+1><I=20
>>>
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14px; FONT-STYLE:
italic"><B=20
>>>
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14px; FONT-STYLE: =
>>>
italic"><SPAN=20
>>>
class=3DApple-style-span=20
>>>
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14px; FONT-STYLE: =
>>>
italic">Jock=20
>>>
Coates:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=3DApple-style-span=20
>>>
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14px; FONT-STYLE: italic"> Community =
>>>
Land=20
>>>
=
>>>
Trusts</SPAN></I></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
>>>
<DIV><SPAN
class=3DApple-style-span=20
>>>
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; =
>>>
TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE:
=
>>> normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate;
=
>>> border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect:
none; =
>>> apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows:
2">
>>>
<DIV>
>>>
<DIV>--</DIV>
>>>
<DIV>Jock Coats, Oxfordshire Community Land
Trusts,</DIV>
>>>
<DIV><A=20
>>>
=
>>> href=3D"mailto:jock.coats@oclt.org.uk">jock.coats@oclt.org.uk</A> </=
>>>
DIV>
>>>
<DIV><A=20
>>>
=
>>> href=3D"http://www.oclt.org.uk">http://www.oclt.org.uk</A>/ </DIV>
>>>
<DIV>c/o Wardens' Lodgings, Flat 1e Block J, Morrell Hall,
=
>>> OXFORD,
OX3=20
>>>
0FF</DIV>
>>>
<DIV>Mobile: 07769
695767</DIV></DIV>
>>>
<DIV><BR
class=3Dkhtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
>>>
<DIV><BR
class=3Dkhtml-block-placeholder></DIV><BR=20
>>>
class=3DApple-interchange-newline></SPAN></DIV><BR></DIV>
>>>
=
>>>
<P><PRE>-----------------------------------------------------------------=
>>>
----
>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
list are at
>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email
jschroeder@shaw.ca
>>> For
more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>
<P></P></PRE>
>>>
<P></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
>>>
=
>>>
<P><PRE>-----------------------------------------------------------------=
>>>
----
>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
list are at
>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email
hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
>>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>
<P></P></PRE>
>>>
<P>
>>>
<P>
>>>
<HR>
>>>
>>>
<P></P>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by
AVG =
>>> Free=20
>>>
Edition.<BR>Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.3/173 -
=
>>> Release=20
>>> Date:
16/11/2005<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
>>>
=
>>>
<P><PRE>-----------------------------------------------------------------=
>>>
----
>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
list are at
>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email
jschroeder@shaw.ca
>>> For
more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>
<P></P></PRE>
>>>
<P>
>>>
<P>
>>>
<HR>
>>>
>>>
<P></P>No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>Checked by
AVG =
>>> Free=20
>>>
Edition.<BR>Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.3/173 -
=
>>> Release Date:=20
>>>
=
>>>
16/11/2005<BR><BR><BR>---------------------------------------------------=
>>>
------------------<BR>Some=20
>>>
introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
are=20
>>>
at<BR>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<BR>You're
=
>>> subscribed to=20
>>> this list
with the email jschroeder@shaw.ca<BR>For more information, =
>>>
visit=20
>>> http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
>>> =
>>>
<P><PRE>-----------------------------------------------------------------=
>>>
----
>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
list are at
>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email
hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
>>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>> <P></P></PRE>
>>>
<P>
>>> <P>
>>>
<HR>
>>>
>>> <P></P>No virus
found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG Free
=
>>>
>>> Edition.<BR>Version: 7.1.362 /
Virus Database: 267.13.3/174 - Release =
>>>
Date:=20
>>>
11/17/2005<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>>>
>>>
------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C5EB94.6B658670--
>>>
--=======AVGMAIL-437D12EA00F9=======
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;
x-avg=cert; charset=us-ascii
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
>>> Content-Disposition: inline
>>>
Content-Description: "AVG certification"
>>>
>>> No
virus found in this outgoing message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free
Edition.
>>> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.3/174 -
Release Date:
>>> 11/17/2005
>>>
>>>
--=======AVGMAIL-437D12EA00F9=======--
>>>
>>
>>
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
at
>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> You're subscribed to this list with the email
hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
>>
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this
incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version:
7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.3/174 - Release Date: 17/11/2005
>>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing
message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus
Database: 267.13.4/175 - Release Date: 18/11/2005
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
>
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> You're subscribed to this list with the email jschroeder@shaw.ca
> For more
information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> |
Re: [socialcredit]
Reply to this message
