| Subject: | RE: [socialcredit] Swanwick 2 | | Date: | Friday, December 16, 2005 22:05:40 (+0000) | | From: | John G Rawson <johngrawson @.......com>
|
| In reply to: | Message 3226 (written by Triumphofthepast) |
Only one comment. If I did it, it would be a business cost. Breeding the
thing is the personal bit, developing it for sale is commercial.
And thanks for the other very rational discussion. John R.
From: Triumphofthepast@aol.com
Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
To:
socialcredit@elistas.com
Subject: [socialcredit] Swanwick 2
Date: Fri, 16
Dec 2005 10:36:34 EST
"If you believe that Douglas was referring to a
'micro-economic' prescription . . ." (Joe)
Joe, I've never known what you were
trying to say with this micro/macro thing.
". . . out with the birds."
(John)
Which is no worse than what's been said about every other social credit
concept.
"I simply don't buy the supersitious approach . . . who believe that he
must be treated as completely infallible." (John)
Here I am with you 100%. And
one way to approach Swanwick 2 would be to say that noting the problem arising
from investing of savings, Douglas voiced this
principle -- but then dropped it, being unable to work out the mechanics to his
satisfaction.
But if Douglas dropped it, the problem still remains. The less
we spend and the more we invest, the more money we get. The more we get, the
less we spend, and so on. More investment means more production, but less
spending should mean less production.
"I doubt if Douglas suddenly turned his
back on all small private enterprise. . . . No dubious but possibly successful
enterprise would ever get off the ground without the entrepreneur risking
something of his own. . . . In my small flower production business, . . . I need
about $10,000 to propagate [a new calla] in large numbers sufficient to make
some sort of impact. . . . And I am not allowed to risk my own capital. Do I go
to one of the banks and demand, by right of being a citizen, a loan of
this amount?" (John)
I am all for discussing this to see where the principle of
Swanwick 2 may lead and to see if we can solve the problem Douglas dropped.
I
have more than once, under the heading "What Use Is Money to the Seller?" called
attention to the fact that sales receipts are like cancelled stamps. They
represent goods taken off the market and do not have any automatic correspondance
with new goods put on the market. You take in $10,000 and deposit it in your
account and think of it as "your money." But it might be better to say that the
money you deposited was cancelled and new credits were issued to you on the
strength of the evidence of your sales, which in theory means you served
consumers. So there is no problem with investing the proceeds of your business.
The problem comes only with investing PERSONAL funds.
I very
tentatively suggest that you might also be able to spend personal funds on
propagating a new calla as long as you didn't regard it as a business cost and
charge it into prices. You would regard propagating a new calla as its own
reward. Even in the context of an existing business, there could be elements
that were financed from the bank or from the proceeds of the business and
therefore would represent costs to be passed on to the public in prices, and
elements that were financed from personal funds as leisure activity and therefore
would not be passed on to the public in prices. (It would be as if the business
received a free donation.)
I say "tentatively" because if propagating a new
calla can be "consumption" or "production" or part of each depending on how it is
financed, how can we ever know how much "consumer prices" are? And in that case,
how do we apply Swanwick 1?
Michael
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