| Subject: | RE: Fw: [socialcredit] Swanwick 2 | | Date: | Tuesday, December 20, 2005 22:47:49 (+0000) | | From: | John G Rawson <johngrawson @.......com>
|
| In reply to: | Message 3231 (written by Martin Hattersley) |
I think it is fairly clear that Douglas, at the time he was writing, saw
savings as reductions of the purchasing power of the people, and therefore
condemned them. Why he did this instead of seeing them as a reason to put more
money into circulation per the other means he envisaged is a mystery to me.
Our first Labour Govt. saw it the same way, encouraging people to spend and
promising to look after them "from the cradle to the grave".
Times change and I agree with you.
Regards. John R.
From: "Martin Hattersley" <hattersleyjm@interbaun.com>
Reply-To:
socialcredit@elistas.com
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Subject: Fw:
[socialcredit] Swanwick 2
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 19:16:11 -0700
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Swanwick 2
My own view is that, far from being an economic downer, capital investment
financed by savings is in fact a very sound way of going about things.
If we spend, say four years in building the "Titanic", we distribute incomes
to workers and suppliers for that four year period, so withdrawing other goods
and services from the market, without putting any product of value on the market.
If financed by new credit, that is an inflationary thing to do. If financed by
savings, it simply means that consumer buying power in total has been
redistributed from the investor to the workers and suppliers, with no
inflationary effect.
The moment that the "Titanic" sails (and assuming that it doen't sink on its
maiden voyage), there's increased goods and services available to the public
(including laid-off shipbuilders), which is every justification for increasing
the money supply through a debt free National Dividend.
If the "Titanic" sinks, of course, assuming it has been financed through
savings, all that happens is that its investors (or their insurers) lose their
money.
Comments?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 3:12 PM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Swanwick 2
Alright. Let's pursue this further.
I have (yes, more than once) in my small flower production business, developed
a new calla (Zantedeschia vars.) which may sweep the market, or may simply drop
out of ken because of changing fashions. Or the tubers may all turn out to be
"rotters" and nearly all simply disappear in their third season. I need about
$10,000 (minimum) to propagate it in large numbers sufficient to make some sort
of impact. And I am not allowed to risk my own capital.
Do I go to one of the banks and demand, by right of being a citizen, a loan of
this amount? If not, how the blazes to I persuade my bank manager to fund this
very risky project? Must I mortgage my property, which surely would be
tantamount to using savings?
Moral: Douglas' analysis of the economic system was absolutely brilliant. His
antisemitism, though very fashionable at the time was at the very least
irresponsible. Where, in the spectrum of his dicta do we draw the line; at this
last point, or a bit sooner in relation to some of his ideas in between? I
simply don't buy the superstitious approach of many Scoial Crediters who believe
that he must be treated as completely infallible; that his pronouncements should
not be subjected to reasonable analysis, particularly in view of changed
circumstances. (We no longer live in slump time, for example.)
This ossified and unreasoning approach is one of our weaknesses, every bit as
dangerous as subtle movement away from his obviously valid ideas.
Bill, if you do close down, please accept my thanks for riding herd on these
discussions to date. I'm sure I have annoyed a few people in the process, but I
have gained an immense amount of valuable information from it, as well as sorting
out my own ideas for practical use.
Regards. John R.
From: Triumphofthepast@aol.com
Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
To:
socialcredit@elistas.com
Subject: [socialcredit] Swanwick 2
Date: Thu, 15
Dec 2005 12:08:57 EST
"That the credits required to finance production shall be supplied, not from
savings, but be new credits relating to new production." Both John and Joe
suggest this means "the aforementioned credits required to LIQUIDATE
production." I don't see how it could. Worse, he would now be saying that savings SHALL NOT
be used to buy consumer goods and services!
Michael
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