In-Reply-To: <007601c60444$886e1200$a123e5cf@martinh4>
Hi Martin.
You say that Hewlett Johnson "abandoned" Social Credit. I do not think he
did entirely.
Certainly he, and many others got wined dined and thoroughly taken in by
well controlled visits to Moscow. I think that in that they were very
naive.
In his case though it did not last. With his later writings, and the
memories of those who knew him making it obvious that he was very
disillusioned with the "Communist" experiment. He came to see the
brutality of it.
He eventually saw it for what it was, State Capitalism, of the most crude
kind.
What worries me now is the attempt by many who call themselves "Social
Creditors" to claim it for some particular political creed, and by
implication in this context NOT Communism. That I think is a very serious
mistake.
Ken.
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From: "Martin Hattersley" <hattersleyjm@interbaun.com>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 19:15:07 -0700
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Subject: Fw: [socialcredit] IMPORTANT NOTICE
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From: "Martin Hattersley" <hattersleyjm@interbaun.com>
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] IMPORTANT NOTICE
> Hewlett Johnson, the "Red Dean", abandoned Social Credit to become an
> enthusiast for Communism and the Stalinist regime.
>
> A pity, because his explanation of Social Credit, before he went on to
new > interests, is one of the best and clearest I have seen.
>
> Martin Hattersley
> 1970-10123-99 St.,
> EDMONTON AB CANADA
> Phone (780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247
> e-mail: hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 1:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] IMPORTANT NOTICE
>
>
>> In-Reply-To: <001001c60193$738bcd40$bad44246@cc.shawcable.net>
>> Hi Joe.
>>
>> In this post of yours you make passing reference to "The Red Dean", do
>> you
>> mean Hewlet Johnson?
>>
>> If so I would be interested to know what it is you think he "gave up",
>> and
>> which way do you think he went :-)))
>>
>> Like many others who made a study of SoCred in the 1930s he had other
>> fish
>> to fry. And as the wolves prowled around the faithful they fell away for
>> reasons that were various, with some a matter of cowardice. But, who are
>> we to criticise ?
>>
>> Ken.
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
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>> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 08:20:23 -0800
>> From: Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>> Message-id: <001001c60193$738bcd40$bad44246@cc.shawcable.net>
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>> References: <20051214204041.94630.qmail@web60519.mail.yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] IMPORTANT NOTICE
>> X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
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>>
>> Bill, I really think you should re-consider. As you've often noted,
>> 'A+B'
>> was the work of a genius. Unfortunately, it takes an equivalent
'genius'>> tocorrectly interpret it in a manner that is completely
consistant with >> the
>> objectives that ALL 'Social Crediters' proclaim they aspire to ~ freedom
>> within security for every individual. I believe that you are singularly
>> gifted in your possession of those necessary attributes.
>>
>> Given time, and a thoroughness of study most of us will never be able to
>> undertake no matter what level of intellectual background we possess,
>> some
>> of us may reach the level of understanding you've already attained. And
>> certainly that's a goal worth striving for. But many more, in all too
>> many
>> cases genuinely very well intentioned individuals, will just 'give-up'.
>> They'll go the way of the "Red Dean". They'll direct their energies
>> elsewhere, towards truly 'lost causes'. Life will go on, but it will
>> fall
>> far short of that life that could be lived 'more abundantly'.
>>
>> Social Credit does come with some unfortunate 'baggage' attached to it.
>> Andtoo many still want the 'name' to hide their not-so-well-hidden
>> agendas
>> ofone type of 'class warfare' struggle or another under. Whether that
>> agendabe 'anti-semitism', 'white-supremacy', 'bank bashing',
>> 'anti-Americanism',screwball 'environmentalism', or whatever. The
>> surviving 'politicalParties' that proclaim themselves 'Social Credit',
or>> to be 'for' it, andthen proceed to promote anything but, aren't any
>> better. We can't changewhat's happened, only attempt to understand it
>> and
>> find ways to overcome it.It will be a frustrating process. Douglas, in
>> so
>> many ways so perceptive,has told us as much in the opening pages of
>> 'Economic Democracy'. But atthe same time held out the promise of
>> persistance in the closing.
>>
>> It's entirely understandable to believe when there is no visible
>> 'movement'
>> in a "Movement", that the entire effort to induce some is a 'complete
>> waste
>> of time'. But if you 'give-up'? Don't give-up, Bill. Use the 'gift'
>> you've been given. It's too important to put aside.
>>
>> Joe
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "William B. Ryan" <w_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 12:40 PM
>> Subject: [socialcredit] IMPORTANT NOTICE
>>
>>
>>> Bullcrap. The problem with Douglas is that he comes
>>> with too much baggage. The baggage are the Social
>>> Crediters (with some notable exceptions whom I shall
>>> not name). They and their pitiable "interpretations"
>>> discredit the whole project. In any case, the project
>>> can't get off the ground in the first place in any
>>> meaningful way because one octogenarian anti-Semitic
>>> nut case supposedly controls the Douglas copyrights,
>>> and nobody will challenge him. And I'm sick of it.
>>> So my participation is hereby finished once and for
>>> all. Complete waste of time. I'll let the list stay
>>> up for a few days for anyone who might want to scan
>>> the archives, then I'll pull the plug on that too. I
>>> guarantee it'll stay out of the socket this time.
>>> This is my last posting to list socialcredit and the
>>> last I will admit any association whatsoever with the
>>> so-called "movement."
>>>
>>>
>>> --- Triumphofthepast@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Supposing Douglas wanted to convey, as a principle of
>>> social credit economics, that production should be
>>> financed with new credits, rather than savings, what
>>> would you have him say other than what he did say? No
>>> one with any ear for language or any respect for
>>> Douglas would suggest that in three parallel
>>> Principles using "shall be," one of them was a mistake
>>> for "are." There is really no question what Douglas
>>> SAID. The only question is whether he MEANT what he
>>> said. Because he didn't work out by what MECHANISM
>>> Swanwick 2 should be applied, some people refuse to
>>> believe he meant what he said.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
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>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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