In-Reply-To: <001001c60de4$c608ae00$bad44246@cc.shawcable.net>
Hi Joe.
Thank you for the reply.
Certainly I agree that in any journey we have to start from "somewhere",
particular if we are fixated upon certainty. Personably I think that such
an idea of certainty is illusory. It is not a part of the human condition.
Make money rather than wellbeing your God and the idea of certainty
becomes your driver. And then I think it is easy to see how powerful
though tiny elites would try to impose their inflexible doctrines upon the
rest of us.
In this thread we were talking about upper and lower limits on price. It
was exactly because Social Credit cast doubt upon the certainties that I
had been taught that I found it so provocative. And eventually some
understanding offered an escape from the financial straightjacket that
seemed to make "where we started from" inevitable.
Take for example, if you will, the importation of cars into the UK from
the Eastern Block, like Lada, Wartburg, and Skoda. These were ALL offered
at a considerably lower price here than home built or european
equivalents. Clearly much lower than production cost, and not explained by
differences in quality, and suitability for purpose, though design did
attract ridicule :-)
That this major import could be offered at less than cost of production
could only be explained by thinking outside the orthodox loop. The
Governments of the exporting countries wanted "Hard " currency more than
they wanted the cost of production covered in their own economies.
Sneaky :-)))
And on the subject of "Inflation". How is it that if it is accepted that
surplus of purchasing power in an economy will drive up prices, what is
the explanation for the price of bread, and the rental price of a Moscow
apartment did not rise in the period from 1917 to 1970 ? Despite the fact
that Russian citizens had massive amounts of unspenadable money in their
accounts during that time?
Do not think for one moment Joe that I support a "Command " economy, I do
not.
BUT, and it is a big but, Social Credit taught me that in matters
monetary, as I think Mark Twain said, when it comes to the starting place
IT AINT NECESSARILY SO.
Ken.
-------- Original Message --------
X-Envelope-From:
socialcredit-return-3283-kenpalmerton=cix.co.uk@elistas.comReceived: from
q53.elistas.net (q53.elistas.net [216.66.20.25]) by
mta02.mx.cix.co.uk (8.13.4/CIX/8.13.4) with SMTP id k012L70V001378
for <kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk>; Sun, 1 Jan 2006 02:21:07 GMTReceived: (qmail
7052 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 04:01:33 +0100Received: from
mail.e-listas.com (66.7.164.206) by 192.168.0.153 with EMQP; 1 Jan 2006
04:01:33 +0100Mailing-List: socialcredit@elistas.com
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com>
Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
List-Help: <mailto:socialcredit-help@elistas.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:socialcredit-unsubscribe@elistas.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:socialcredit-subscribe@elistas.com>
Delivered-To: list socialcredit@elistas.com
Delivered-To: moderator for socialcredit@elistas.com
Received: (qmail 7082 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2005 09:23:59 +0100
Received: from unknown (HELO pd3mo3so.prod.shaw.ca) (24.71.223.10)
by mail.egrupos.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2005 09:23:59 +0100
Received: from pd4mr8so.prod.shaw.ca
(pd4mr8so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.101]) by l-daemon
(Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004))
with ESMTP id <0ISC003J2T0VPV40@l-daemon> for socialcredit@elistas.com;
Sat, 31 Dec 2005 01:31:44 -0700 (MST)
Received: from pn2ml5so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.149])
by pd4mr8so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built
Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0ISC00F2CT0V8C60@pd4mr8so.prod.shaw.ca> for
socialcredit@elistas.com; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 01:31:43 -0700 (MST)
Received: from default ([70.66.212.186])
by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004))
with SMTP id <0ISC00JPLT0VXB20@l-daemon> for socialcredit@elistas.com;
Sat, 31 Dec 2005 01:31:43 -0700 (MST)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 00:32:44 -0800
From: Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Message-id: <001001c60de4$c608ae00$bad44246@cc.shawcable.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-priority: Normal
References: <memo.856150@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Putting it all together
X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
X-UIDL: _sV.UyztDB.mta02.mx
(Ken wrote:-) > It has always puzzled me why Douglas, of all people, went
along with the assumptions of classical economics on the subject of the
upper and lower limits of price.
(Joe replies:-) I would suppose they are generally true. 'Upper limit'
does seem to be affected by the quantity of money available, modified by
'competition' amongst sellers to make sales. 'Lower limit' can't be less
than 'financial cost' for long, or either the 'willing seller' disappears
from that market, or the firm goes broke when its own source of funds is
exhausted, or further into debt for as long as its banker will extend it
further credit. (Sometimes, it seems, with some firms, that can be quite a
long time.)
(Ken continues:-) That these are assumptions, and that as such they fail
towork on many
> many occasions for me makes them all but worthless as economic tools.
(Joe replies:-) There doesn't seem to me to be many things in economics
that we can say work all the time. People do not always behave
'logically'.But we have to start somewhere, that system is what we have,
and obviouslyDouglas saw the practicality of modifying it rather than what
would probablybe the still greater challenge of trying to promote
something completelydifferent. And then finding out it's worse. With his
proposals for SC,there is still plenty of latitude for it to evolve in the
way it's found towork best.
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
You're subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
|
Re: [socialcredit]
Reply to this message