| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Putting it all together | | Date: | Monday, January 2, 2006 19:51:02 (-0700) | | From: | Martin Hattersley <hattersleyjm @.........com>
|
| In reply to: | Message 3297 (written by Joe Thomson) |
Joe -
I think we have to consider things from the physical rather than the fiinancial
aspect.
Physically, (unless there is a "surplus" of unused production), using steel to
build the Titanic means that less steel is available to provide kids with
bicycles.
The reason for the "surplus" of unused productive capacity is, of course, the
lack of purchasing power in the hands of consumers - a financial problem. As you
so rightly put it, when this is out of the way as a result of war financing, we
can see the physiscal situation underneath.
But the situation you describe is exactly the reason that everything possible is
done under our present financial system to encourage investment and growth
financed by bank credit - building Titanics (let alone various forms of
armaments) as a way of distributing incomes so that kids can buy bicycles.
Crazy, isn't it?
Martin Hattersley
1970-10123-99 St.,
EDMONTON AB CANADA
Phone (780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247
e-mail: hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Thomson
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Putting it all together
(Martin wrote:-) Yes, Joe, I sent that paper on Soddy out more for his
discussion of the "J curve", which I think is another way of looking at A+B,
rather than for adopting his ideas holus bolus.
There are more ways than one to skin a cat, and Douglas's price discount is
the neatest way of balancing production with demand, without demanding
unnecessary work from anyone, that I know of - a definitely better alternative.
(Joe replies:-) I agree. I've copied a short extract from the "J curve"
below, with my comments in 'green' regarding one thing that concerns me.
" If production is to be increased, a period of time has to go by in which
more effort is put into the system by consumers, before the products `in the
pipeline' emerge at the other end. If this increased effort is financed by new
credit - say an expansion of the money supply by a bank loan, then the result is
an initial period of inflation - a greater supply of money is chasing a supply of
goods that has not increased. More than that, this increased money supply is
chasing a supply of goods that is actually diminished by the amount of resources
diverted to creating the Permanent Wealth needed to sustain the new rate of
production. "
Maybe I'm not looking at this correctly, but IS there normally an actual
diminishment of the supply of goods that consumers would buy by diverting
resources to create the 'Permanent Wealth'? Certainly in times of war this would
seem to be so. But what about in times when there is already unused productive
capacity to provide both raw materials and finished products for both 'capital'
and 'consumer' production? As there just about always seems to be.
When the 'Titanic' was constructed, was the supply of consumer goods made
from steel or any of the other products used in its making actually diminished?
Steel that might have been used that way, yes. But would it have been used that
way, or at all? Would there have necessarily been any more food grown on the
farms of Northern Ireland if those constructing the 'Titanic' had not been
employed at Harland & Wolfe?
Joe
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<DIV><FONT size=2>Joe -</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I think we have to consider things from the physical rather
than the fiinancial aspect.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Physically, (unless there is a "surplus" of unused
production), using steel to build the Titanic means that less steel is available
to provide kids with bicycles.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>The reason for the "surplus" of unused productive
capacity is, of course, the lack of purchasing power in the hands of
consumers - a financial problem. As you so rightly put it, when this is out of
the way as a result of war financing, we can see the physiscal situation
underneath.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>But the situation you describe is exactly the reason that
everything possible is done under our present financial system to encourage
investment and growth financed by bank credit - building Titanics (let alone
various forms of armaments) as a way of distributing incomes so that kids can
buy bicycles.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Crazy, isn't it?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Martin Hattersley<BR>1970-10123-99 St.,
<BR>EDMONTON AB CANADA<BR>Phone (780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247<BR>e-mail: <A
href="mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun.com">hattersleyjm@interbaun.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
#000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca href="mailto:thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca">Joe Thomson</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=socialcredit@elistas.com
href="mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 02, 2006 10:15
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [socialcredit] Putting it
all together</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
#000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>(Martin wrote:-) Yes, Joe, I sent that paper on Soddy out more
for his discussion of the "J curve", which I think is another way of looking
at A+B, rather than for adopting his ideas holus bolus. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There are more ways than one to skin a cat, and Douglas's price
discount is the neatest way of balancing production with demand,
without demanding unnecessary work from anyone, that I know of - a
definitely better alternative.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#008000><STRONG>(Joe replies:-) I agree. I've copied
a short extract from the "J curve" below, with my comments in
'green' regarding one thing that concerns me.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#008000>
<P></FONT><FONT color=#000000>" If production is to be increased, a period
of time has to go by in which more effort is put into the system
by consumers, before the products `in the pipeline' emerge at the other end.
If this increased effort is financed by new credit - say an expansion of the
money supply by a bank loan, then the result is an initial period of
inflation - a greater supply of money is chasing a supply of goods that has
not increased. <STRONG><U>More than that, this increased money supply is
chasing a supply of goods that is actually diminished by the amount of
resources diverted to creating the Permanent Wealth needed to sustain the
new rate of production. "</U></STRONG></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT color=#008000><STRONG>Maybe I'm not looking at this correctly, but
IS there<EM> normally</EM> an actual diminishment of the supply of goods
<EM>that consumers would buy</EM> by diverting resources to create the
'Permanent Wealth'? Certainly in times of war this would seem to be
so. But what about in times when there is already <EM>unused
productive capacity</EM> to provide both raw materials and finished products
for both 'capital' and 'consumer' production? As there just about
always seems to be. </STRONG></FONT>
<P><FONT color=#008000><STRONG>When the 'Titanic' was constructed, was the
supply of <EM>consumer goods</EM> made from steel or any of the other
products used in its making actually diminished? Steel that
<EM><U>might have been used</U> </EM>that way, yes. But <EM>would</EM>
it have been used that way, or at all? Would there
have necessarily been <EM>any more</EM> food grown on the farms of
Northern Ireland if those constructing the 'Titanic' had not been employed
at Harland & Wolfe? </STRONG></FONT>
<P><STRONG><FONT color=#008000>Joe</FONT></STRONG></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><PRE>---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
You're subscribed to this list with the email hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
<P></P></PRE>
<P>
<P>
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