| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Putting it all together | | Date: | Saturday, January 7, 2006 08:10:38 (-0800) | | From: | Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu @....ca>
|
| In reply to: | Message 3322 (written by Kenneth Palmerton) |
Hi Ken,
Do you happen to recall Stoll's first name?
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Putting it all together
> In-Reply-To: <BAY21-F2183F3F8D8E797EE94DC25BD2E0@phx.gbl>
> Thank you John for that.
>
> It is amazing just how much interesting, or even valuable information on
> the progress, or otherwise, of monetary reform is inside peoples heads,
> and not written down.
>
> The biggest problem with people is that they have a nasty habit of dying
> off, taking their knowledge with them unrecorded :-(
>
> An example is of a man called Stoll. He was the owner of a string of
> theatres here in the UK. His name kept cropping up in the digging around
> that I am wont to do, but it was incredibly difficult to find any living
> person who had either heard of him, or has any information to contribute.
>
> Eventually I found that he had written a series of books on monetary
> reform, but again, I have not, so far, laid eyes on them.
>
> Again, I think there many other contributors to our body of knowledge in
> the same situation.
>
> Ken.
>
> -------- Original Message --------
>
> X-Envelope-From:
> socialcredit-return-3311-kenpalmerton=cix.co.uk@elistas.comReceived: from
> q53.elistas.net (q53.elistas.net [216.66.20.25]) by
> mta02.mx.cix.co.uk (8.13.4/CIX/8.13.4) with SMTP id k05EVki7020464
> for <kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk>; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:31:47 GMTReceived: (qmail
> 1565 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 16:13:10 +0100Received: from
> mail.e-listas.com (66.7.164.206) by 192.168.0.153 with EMQP; 5 Jan 2006
> 16:13:10 +0100Mailing-List: socialcredit@elistas.com
> X-No-Archive: yes
> List-Post: <mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> List-Help: <mailto:socialcredit-help@elistas.com>
> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:socialcredit-unsubscribe@elistas.com>
> List-Subscribe: <mailto:socialcredit-subscribe@elistas.com>
> Delivered-To: list socialcredit@elistas.com
> Delivered-To: moderator for socialcredit@elistas.com
> Received: (qmail 12597 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 07:37:48 +0100
> Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.233.110)
> by mail.egrupos.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2006 07:37:48 +0100
> Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
> Wed, 4 Jan 2006 22:45:53 -0800
> Message-ID: <BAY21-F2183F3F8D8E797EE94DC25BD2E0@phx.gbl>
> Received: from 219.88.47.90 by by21fd.bay21.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;
> Thu, 05 Jan 2006 06:45:52 GMT
> X-Originating-IP: [219.88.47.90]
> X-Originating-Email: [johngrawson@hotmail.com]
> X-Sender: johngrawson@hotmail.com
> In-Reply-To: <memo.6357@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> From: "John G Rawson" <johngrawson@hotmail.com>
> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 06:45:52 +0000
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/html; format=flowed
> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jan 2006 06:45:53.0184 (UTC)
> FILETIME=[AC313A00:01C611C3]Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Putting it all
> togetherX-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
> X-UIDL: _bAF.V3SvDB.mta02.mx
>
> <html><div style='background-color:'><P>Greetings Ken.</P>
> <P>H.J. Kelliher was one of our more prominent industrialists. I am
> embarassed in that I forget his particular product.</P><P>He ran the
> Mirror Publishing Co, and produced the weekly "Mirror", in which he
> campaigned per editorials for monetary reform. Once again, I am
> ignorant of the general form of the paper, but it was good enough to
> succeed.</P><P>Her put forward a "loanable funds scheme" to our 1950's
> Royal Commission, the aim of which was to make the banks "borrow to lend".
> The Commission was about as enthusiastic about it as it was about the
> Social Credit submissions.</P><P>Kelliher himself did not appear, but he
> hired a high-powered legal team, which also helped at times
> to dig out the Social Crediters from some of the traps they walked
> into. The main one was, of course, that they claimed the existence of a
> sizeable "gap" and were confounded by official figures showing exact
> equilibrium. Only some time later did they discover that GNP (as then
> called) was based on returns of income, on the theory that equation
> existed!</P><P>When my daughter Melissa, in her final school year, went
> for the final interview with H.J.K. and one or more of his advisers,
> following presentation of her essay, she went in, as any young girl would,
> with some degree of trepidation. My wife, (her stepmother) who
> stayed out in the reception room, shortly heard peals of laughter coming
> from the interview room. Obviously, the man had a human side.</P><P>I can
> not give you references to any of his writings, which I think were mainly
> or only per editorials in his paper. The ultimate resource for
> material of this sort in NZ is our Parliamentary Library, probably per a
> public library for us.</P><P>Regards. <FONT
> color=#339933 size=4>John R.</FONT></P><BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT:
> 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT:
> 0px"><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif"><HR
> color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1>From: <I>kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Kenneth
> Palmerton)</I><BR>Reply-To: <I>socialcredit@elistas.com</I><BR>To:
> <I>socialcredit@elistas.com</I><BR>CC:
> <I>kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk</I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: [socialcredit]
> Putting it all together</I><BR>Date: <I>Wed, 4 Jan 2006 16:01 +0000
> (GMT)</I><BR>>In-Reply-To:
> <BAY21-F4FF116B6FFAAC0415B06EBD2F0@phx.gbl><BR>>Hi
> John.<BR>><BR>>Would you care to tell us a bit more about Kelliher
> please ? I believe I<BR>>have some of his writings somewhere
> here.<BR>><BR>>The name is known to me, but it would be useful to be
> able to put him into<BR>>context from someone who knows
> :-)<BR>><BR>>I think you are right about Soddy and A+B. But then he
> was not alone in<BR>>nearly getting there, but not quite. In fact I
> believe that Keynes himself<BR>>was in that category. He accepted a
> "gap", though only admitted to it<BR>>being in the nature of a
> depreciation figure.<BR>><BR>>As he was a consummate snob there was
> no way he, a hide bound academic<BR>>intellectual, would admit to being
> upstaged by a heretic, and a non<BR>>academic heretic at that
> :-(((<BR>><BR>>I believe Keynes provided the thunder. But it was
> Douglas that gave
> the<BR>>lightening.<BR>><BR>>Ken.<BR>><BR>>--------
> Original Message
> --------<BR>><BR>>X-Envelope-From:<BR>>socialcredit-return-3301-k
e
> npalmerton=cix.co.uk@elistas.comReceived: from<BR>>q53.elistas.net
> (q53.elistas.net [216.66.20.25]) by<BR>>mta03.mx.cix.co.uk
> (8.13.4/CIX/8.13.4) with SMTP id k049kqIr002528<BR>>for
> <kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk>; Wed, 4 Jan 2006 09:46:53 GMTReceived:
> (qmail<BR>>14161 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2006 11:28:04
> +0100Received: from<BR>>mail.e-listas.com (66.7.164.206) by
> 192.168.0.153 with EMQP; 4 Jan 2006<BR>>11:28:04 +0100Mailing-List:
> socialcredit@elistas.com<BR>>X-No-Archive: yes<BR>>List-Post:
> <mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com><BR>>Reply-To:
> socialcredit@elistas.com<BR>>List-Help:
> <mailto:socialcredit-help@elistas.com><BR>>List-Unsubscribe:
> <mailto:socialcredit-unsubscribe@elistas.com><BR>>List-Subscribe:
> <mailto:socialcredit-subscribe@elistas.com><BR>>Delivered-To:
> list socialcredit@elistas.com<BR>>Delivered-To: moderator for
> socialcredit@elistas.com<BR>>Received: (qmail 24488 invoked from
> network); 4 Jan 2006 06:54:35 +0100<BR>>Received: from unknown (HELO
> hotmail.com) (65.54.233.93)<BR>> by mail.egrupos.com with SMTP; 4 Jan
> 2006 06:54:35 +0100<BR>>Received: from mail pickup service by
> hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;<BR>> Tue, 3 Jan 2006 22:02:36
> -0800<BR>>Message-ID:
> <BAY21-F4FF116B6FFAAC0415B06EBD2F0@phx.gbl><BR>>Received: from
> 210.54.108.130 by by21fd.bay21.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;<BR>> Wed, 04
> Jan 2006 06:02:35 GMT<BR>>X-Originating-IP:
> [210.54.108.130]<BR>>X-Originating-Email:
> [johngrawson@hotmail.com]<BR>>X-Sender:
> johngrawson@hotmail.com<BR>>In-Reply-To:
> <004801c61012$818a0640$b86437d2@computer><BR>>From: "John G
> Rawson" <johngrawson@hotmail.com><BR>>To:
> socialcredit@elistas.com<BR>>Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 06:02:35
> +0000<BR>>Mime-Version: 1.0<BR>>Content-Type: text/html;
> format=flowed<BR>>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jan 2006 06:02:36.0241
> (UTC)<BR>>FILETIME=[75E16C10:01C610F4]<BR>>Subject: Re:
> [socialcredit] Putting it all together<BR>>X-Envelope-To:
> kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk<BR>>X-UIDL:
> _lo.Pm5uDB.mta03.mx<BR>><BR>><html><div
> style='background-color:'><P>Bill, it might take a
> little<BR>>finding, but I have a copy of his "Wealth, Virtual Wealth
> and Debt".</P><BR>><P>To me, basically he agreed with
> Douglas but did not accept the A+B<BR>>model. However, he did
> attribute a small "gap" to savings. My<BR>>assessment is that, while
> using different forms of expression, he<BR>>underestimated it and
> Douglas overestimaterd it.</P><BR>><P>Out of interest, when
> Kelliher was running his crusade for monetary<BR>>reform via his paper
> the "Mirror", obviously he was of the Soddy<BR>>school. Using
> this knowledge, I coached two girls at different times<BR>>to win
> Kelliher essay prizes on banking etc., which were valuable to
> their<BR>>university studies. I kept them away from SC, -
> until<BR>>afterwards. One was my daughter Melissa, the other
> a Jewish student.<BR>>The latter became an active member of our Youth
> Section in Whangarei.</P><BR>><P>With our sort of
> knowledge, it was there for the taking every four<BR>>years or so, with
> people trained by ordinary economics teachers missing<BR>>out on what
> Kelliher wanted. But very few kids could be
> bothered.</P><BR>><P>Regards. <FONT
> color=#339933 size=4>John
> R.</FONT></P><BR>><BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px;
> MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;<BR>>BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT:
> 0px"><FONT<BR>>style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY:
> tahoma,sans-serif"><BR>><HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1><BR>>From:
> <I>"W. McGunnigle"
>
<wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz></I><BR>Reply-To:<BR>>&l
>
t;I>socialcredit@elistas.com</I><BR>To:<BR>><I>&
> ;lt;socialcredit@elistas.com></I><BR>Subject:
> <I>Re: [socialcredit]<BR>>Putting it all
> together</I><BR>Date: <I>Tue, 3 Jan 2006
> 16:05:08<BR>>+1300</I><BR><BR><META
> content="Microsoft SafeHTML"
>
name=Generator><BR>><STYLE><BR>></STYLE><BR>><BR>&g
> t;<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi
> Martin</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT
>
face=Arial<BR>>size=2> &nb
>
sp; <BR>> &
> ;nbsp; Where can I obtain copies of the work
> of<BR>>Professor Soddy? The paper you created in 1988 was of great
> interest to<BR>>me, and followed much of the thinking pattern that
> colours my thoughts on<BR>>the monetary reform matters.
> </FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT face=Arial
> size=2> I
> certainly<BR>>agree that the monetary concepts that govern so called
> "modern economics"<BR>>definitely do not cope
> with</FONT> <FONT face=Arial size=2>the
> ever<BR>>increasing debt problem, and its stiffling effect on human
> development.<BR>>Effectively we have a monetary system developed in the
> 15th century geared<BR>>to the selfish needs of Italian single city
> states trying to cope with a<BR>>global economy that requires global
> equity of opportunity to access<BR>>finance. The situation is
> unstable, hence we have want and starvation in a<BR>>world of
> plenty.</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT face=Arial
> size=2> Bill Mc
> Gunnigle</FONT></DIV><BR>><BLOCKQUOTE
> style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px;<BR>>MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><BR>><DIV
> style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
> </DIV><BR>><DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial;
> font-color:<BR>>black"><B>From:</B> <A
>
title=hattersleyjm@interbaun.com<BR>>href="mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun
> .com">Martin Hattersley</A> </DIV><BR>><DIV
> style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
>
title=socialcredit@elistas.com<BR>>href="mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com
> ">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> </DIV><BR>><DIV
> style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 02,
> 2006 1:44<BR>>PM</DIV><BR>><DIV style="FONT: 10pt
> arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [socialcredit] Putting<BR>>it
> all
>
together</DIV><BR>><DIV><BR></DIV><BR>><DI
> V><FONT size=2>Yes, Joe, I sent that paper on Soddy out more for
> his<BR>>discussion of the "J curve", which I think is another way of
> looking at<BR>>A+B, rather than for adopting his ideas holus bolus.
> </FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT
> size=2></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT
> size=2>There are more ways than one to skin a cat, and<BR>>Douglas's
> price discount is the neatest way of balancing
> production<BR>>with demand, without demanding unnecessary work from
> anyone, that I know<BR>>of - a definitely better
> alternative.</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT
> size=2></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV>Martin
> Hattersley<BR>1970-10123-99 St., <BR>EDMONTON
> AB<BR>>CANADA<BR>Phone
> (780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247<BR>e-mail:
>
<A<BR>>href="mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun.com">hattersleyjm@inter
> baun.com</A></DI<BR>>V><BR>><BLOCKQUOTE
> style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px;<BR>>MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><BR>><DIV
> style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
> </DIV><BR>><DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial;
> font-color:<BR>>black"><B>From:</B> <A
> title=thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca<BR>>href="mailto:thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca">Joe
> Thomson</A> </DIV><BR>><DIV style="FONT: 10pt
> arial"><B>To:</B> <A
>
title=socialcredit@elistas.com<BR>>href="mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com
> ">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> </DIV><BR>><DIV
> style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December
> 31, 2005<BR>>10:31 PM</DIV><BR>><DIV style="FONT: 10pt
> arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [socialcredit] Putting<BR>>it
> all
>
together</DIV><BR>><DIV><BR></DIV><BR>><DI
> V><FONT face=Arial>That's a very interesting
> paper,<BR>>Martin, as are all your pieces.
> Thanks. I don't<BR>>think it hurts to
> explore some of the ideas of others in comparison to<BR>>those
> of Douglas.
> </FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT
>
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV><FON
> T face=Arial>In Soddy I see some similarities with
> Douglas,<BR>>but different terminology and concepts. And
> objective. Soddy seems<BR>>to be more in favour of a 'stable price
> level' than a constantly
> 'falling'<BR>>one. As Douglas
> envisioned through an application<BR>> of
> credit enabling all the benefits of continually
> advancing<BR>>technology to be accessed 'financially' by
> consumers in the provision<BR>>of desired product, As well
> as provision
> for increased<BR>>leisure .
> </FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT
>
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV><FON
> T face=Arial>Soddy seems to prefer 'government' creating
> credit<BR>>for spending on infrastructure rather than new debt-free
> 'consumer'<BR>>credits to individuals. Is this a large part
> of the<BR>>reason why many find
> 'government' infrastructure spending<BR>>in a slump
> so attractive? To try to keep up the
> price<BR>>level? </FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT
>
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV><FON
> T face=Arial>I guess it's difficult for many to
> initially<BR>> envision how 'consumer' goods could be sold for
> less than financial<BR>>cost on an ongoing basis without businesses
> being<BR>>ruined, Simply through the
> employment of a<BR>> different technique of
> credit. But I think<BR>> true
> 'consumer' demand made ''effective demand''
> would then<BR>> create renewed economic activity far
> more effectively than<BR>>'infrastructure spending' pump priming ever
> will. </FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT
>
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV><FON
> T face=Arial> I've nothing against 'needed'
> infrastructure<BR>>being built, but not as 'make work' projects to
> provide an unnecessary<BR>>'moral' reason for paying people an
> 'income'. As well as<BR>>a means
> of keeping them 'under control'.
> </FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT
>
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV><FON
> T face=Arial>Soddy sounds like a bit of a 'puritan' to
> me<BR>>in that regard~ he seems concerned to keep
> everyone<BR>>'working'. The goal of a
> triumph of the individual's<BR>>'will-to-freedom'
> over the 'will-to-power' externally imposed<BR>>economically on
> him, something so prevalent in
> Douglas,<BR>> seems to be absent with
>
Soddy. </FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><F
> ONT
>
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV><FON
> T face=Arial> I get the impression from what you've
> written<BR>>and quoted he thinks the 'government'
> knows<BR>>best. Personally, I think once
> we get Douglas completely<BR>>figured out, Soddy will best
> remain remembered for
> discovering<BR>>isotopes.</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT
>
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV><FON
> T
>
face=Arial>Joe</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV> <
> /DIV><BR>><DIV>----- Original Message -----
> </DIV><BR>><BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px;
> PADDING-LEFT: 5px;<BR>>MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px
> solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><BR>><DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4;
> FONT: 10pt arial; font-color:<BR>>black"><B>From:</B>
> <A
>
title=hattersleyjm@interbaun.com<BR>>href="mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun
> .com">Martin Hattersley</A> </DIV><BR>><DIV
> style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
>
title=socialcredit@elistas.com<BR>>href="mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com
> ">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> </DIV><BR>><DIV
> style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December
> 29, 2005<BR>>7:02 PM</DIV><BR>><DIV style="FONT: 10pt
> arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [socialcredit] Putting<BR>>it
> all together</DIV><BR>><DIV><BR></DIV>I'm
> attaching a paper I did a while back on the late<BR>>Professor Soddy
> for the <BR>Eastern Economics Association. I think
> Soddy's<BR>>description of the "J curve" <BR>phenomenon
> essentially describes the<BR>>problem we have to
> tackle.<BR><BR>Martin
> Hattersley<BR>1970-10123-99<BR>>St.,<BR>EDMONTON AB
>
CANADA<BR>Phone<BR>>(780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247<BR>e-mail
> :
>
<A<BR>>href="mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun.com">hattersleyjm@inter
> baun.com</A><BR><BR>>----- Original Message -----
> <BR>From: "Joe
>
Thomson"<BR>><thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca><BR>To:<BR>>&am
> p;lt;socialcredit@elistas.com><BR>Sent: Thursday, December
> 29, 2005 9:35<BR>>AM<BR>Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Putting it
> all together<BR><BR><BR>>I<BR>>agree with a
> great deal of what Martin has written identifying
> the<BR>><BR>>problems, but I do not fully concur with some
> of the solutions. This<BR>>may<BR>> well be due
> to a lack of knowledge on my part, or that I'm<BR>>reading into
> <BR>> what<BR>> Martin's proposing something
> that isn't<BR>>intended by him. But there are
> <BR>> some<BR>> concerns I have<BR>>with some
> of what's proposed nevertheless. I'll come
> back<BR>> to<BR>>them later, but for the moment I'd like
> to comment on just<BR>>this.<BR>><BR>>
> (Martin wrote:-) > 5. What this initial<BR>>expression
> of the theorem omitted<BR>> was the fact
> that<BR>>><BR>>certain industries distribute wages
> to their workers, while not<BR>>putting<BR>>> goods
> on the market for immediate sale to consumers.<BR>>These are
> the<BR>> factories<BR>>> that make the
> tools that<BR>>workers will later use to turn out
> actual<BR>> products.<BR>>><BR>>While
> this new capital formation is taking place, its
> distribution<BR>>of<BR>> funds<BR>>>
> to consumers in wages and dividends,<BR>>particularly when financed by
> newly<BR>>> created bank credit,<BR>>serves as a
> form of National Dividend that makes it<BR>>>
> possible<BR>>for the consuming public to buy all that is on the market
> for<BR>><BR>>sale,<BR>>> without
> producers being forced to sell
> below<BR>>cost.<BR>><BR>> (Joe
> replies:-) There is a quote in one of the<BR>>early Douglas
> books that<BR>> remarks " ....just as
> the<BR>>construction of a new railway bridge raises
> the<BR>> price of bacon in<BR>>a village shop."
> While there is no doubt that 'newly<BR>> created<BR>>bank
> credit' to finance new works serves as you say, however it
> is<BR>><BR>>also, I think, true what Douglas
> says.<BR>><BR>> He notes that the<BR>>upper
> limit of price is governed roughly by the <BR>>
> 'quantity<BR>><BR>>theory of money'. The lower by
> financial 'cost'. If there's
> 'more<BR>>money<BR>> about' the merchant is going to try
> and get 'more' of<BR>>it. He has to,
> if<BR>> he's to stay in business. <BR>>Simply
> because the fact there IS 'more money<BR>> about' has
> diluted<BR>>the purchasing power of ALL money
> about.<BR>><BR>> He is selling in<BR>>the
> hopes of making a profit. The same as a bank lends at<BR>>
> interest<BR>>in hopes of the same. But money is variable in
> what it will <BR>><BR>>'buy',<BR>>
> and he has to continually replace and, if selling<BR>>more,
> increase, his <BR>> stock<BR>> in
> trade. (Just as a bank<BR>>has to increase its 'stock', its
> 'deposits' or<BR>> whatever else we've<BR>>been foolish
> enough to allow it to use as its <BR>>
> reserves,<BR>><BR>>if it wants to lend 'more'. There is a
> 'cost' to doing this ~ banks<BR>>'pay'<BR>> interest as
> well as receive it. And 'more' interest when<BR>>they want
> more<BR>> deposits.)<BR>><BR>> If
> the stock the<BR>>merchant buys has risen in price, what he might have
> <BR>><BR>>taken<BR>> for himself in profit is
> diminished. It goes back to<BR>>fund the new stock,
> <BR>> or<BR>> he has to take out a
> larger<BR>>overdraft to do so. His sales may be
> rising,<BR>> and so in terms<BR>>of dollars may be his
> profit. But the RATE of profit in<BR>><BR>>ratio
> to that increase in sales taken over time is
> in<BR>>continuing <BR>> decline.<BR>>
> 'Interest' and 'profit', considered<BR>>in the business sense, are
> exactly the<BR>> same. One of the<BR>>components
> of 'interest', as we've seen, is allowance <BR>>
> for<BR>><BR>>'inflation'. One of the components
> of 'profit' would likely then<BR>>have to <BR>>
> be<BR>> the same. It is why I believe
> Douglas<BR>>noted that "large works on <BR>>
> completion<BR>> are paid for by an<BR>>expansion of
> credit." The words "on completion" imply<BR>>
> there<BR>>must be a FURTHER expansion of credit beyond that which took
> place<BR>><BR>> to<BR>> initiate the
> construction of those 'large<BR>>works'. The 'inflation'
> is<BR>> continuous, and the community<BR>>pays for its
> progress twice. Unless there <BR>>
> is<BR>> an<BR>>implimentation of the SC prescription,
> whereupon we can finally begin<BR>><BR>>
> to<BR>> enjoy as consumers the fruits of progress at
> the<BR>>proper decline in overall<BR>> retail prices that
> capital appreciation<BR>>should have brought
>
about.<BR>><BR>><BR>>-------------------------
> --------------------------------------------<BR>&g<BR>>t;
> Some introductory<BR>>materials to the discussion topic of this list
> are
>
at<BR>><BR>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<
> ;BR>> You're subscribed to<BR>>this list with the email
> hattersleyjm@interbaun.com<BR>> For more<BR>>information,
>
visit<BR>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR>><
> BR>><BR>> --<BR>><BR>> No
> virus<BR>>found in this incoming message.<BR>> Checked by
> AVG Free<BR>>Edition.<BR>> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus
> Database: 267.14.9/216 - Release<BR>>Date:
>
29/12/2005<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR><BR>&
>
lt;BR>---------------------------------------------------------------<BR
> >>------<BR>Some<BR>>introductory materials to the discussion
> topic of this list
>
are<BR>>at<BR>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR&g
> t;You're subscribed<BR>>to this list with the email
> thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca<BR>For more information,<BR>>visit
>
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR><BR>><P><BR>>
> <HR><BR>><BR>><P></P>No virus found in this
> outgoing message.<BR>Checked by AVG
> Free<BR>>Edition.<BR>Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database:
> 267.14.9/216 -
>
Release<BR>>Date:<BR>>29/12/2005<BR><BR><BR>-------
> ----------------------------------------------<BR>>----------------<
B
> R>Som<BR>>e introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
> list
>
are<BR>>at<BR>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR&g
> t;You're subscribed<BR>>to this list with the email
> thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca<BR>For more information,<BR>>visit
>
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>&g
>
t;<P><PRE>-----------------------------------------------------
> --------------<BR>>--<BR>>Some introductory materials to
> the discussion topic of this list are
> at<BR>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR>>You're
> subscribed to this list with the email
> hattersleyjm@interbaun.com<BR>>For more information, visit
>
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR>><P></P></PRE
>
><BR>><P><BR>><P><BR>><HR><BR>><BR>><
> ;P></P>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked
> by AVG Free<BR>>Edition.<BR>Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database:
> 267.14.10/218 - Release<BR>>Date:
>
02/01/2006<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>><P><PRE>--------
> -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>>--<BR>&
g
> t;Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
> at<BR>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR>>You're
> subscribed to this list with the email wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz<BR>>For
> more information, visit
>
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR>><P></P></PRE
>
><BR>><P><BR>><P><BR>><HR><BR>><BR>><
> ;P></P>No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>Checked
> by AVG Free<BR>>Edition.<BR>Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database:
> 267.14.10/218 -
>
Release<BR>>Date:<BR>>02/01/2006<BR><BR><BR>-------
> ----------------------------------------------<BR>>----------------<
B
> R>Som<BR>>e introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
> list
>
are<BR>>at<BR>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR&g
> t;You're subscribed<BR>>to this list with the email
> wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz<BR>For more information,<BR>>visit
>
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>&g
>
t;<P><PRE>-----------------------------------------------------
> --------------<BR>>--<BR>>Some introductory materials to the
> discussion topic of this list are
> at<BR>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR>>You're
> subscribed to this list with the email johngrawson@hotmail.com<BR>>For
> more information, visit
>
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR>><P></P></PRE
>
><BR>><P><BR></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>&l
> t;/div><br clear=all><hr>Need more<BR>>speed? Get <a
>
href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENNZ/2755??PS=47575";<BR>>target="_top">Xtr
> a Broadband!</a>
>
</html><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><p><pre>----------
> ---------------------------------------------------------<BR>>--<BR>>
;
> Some
> introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
> at<BR>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR>>You're
> subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk<BR>>For
> more information, visit
>
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR>><p></pre><p&
> gt;<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></div><br
> clear=all><hr>Become a fitness fanatic with <a
> href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENNZ/2728??PS=47575"; target="_top">XtraMSN
> Health & Fitness!</a> </html>
>
>
>
>
<p><pre>-------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> You're subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> <p></pre><p>
>
>
>
|
Re: [socialcredit]
Reply to this message