In-Reply-To: <BAY21-F2183F3F8D8E797EE94DC25BD2E0@phx.gbl>
Thank you John for that.
It is amazing just how much interesting, or even valuable information on
the progress, or otherwise, of monetary reform is inside peoples heads,
and not written down.
The biggest problem with people is that they have a nasty habit of dying
off, taking their knowledge with them unrecorded :-(
An example is of a man called Stoll. He was the owner of a string of
theatres here in the UK. His name kept cropping up in the digging around
that I am wont to do, but it was incredibly difficult to find any living
person who had either heard of him, or has any information to contribute.
Eventually I found that he had written a series of books on monetary
reform, but again, I have not, so far, laid eyes on them.
Again, I think there many other contributors to our body of knowledge in
the same situation.
Ken.
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From: "John G Rawson" <johngrawson@hotmail.com>
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
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FILETIME=[AC313A00:01C611C3]Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Putting it all
togetherX-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
X-UIDL: _bAF.V3SvDB.mta02.mx
<html><div style='background-color:'><P>Greetings Ken.</P>
<P>H.J. Kelliher was one of our more prominent industrialists. I am
embarassed in that I forget his particular product.</P><P>He ran the
Mirror Publishing Co, and produced the weekly "Mirror", in which he
campaigned per editorials for monetary reform. Once again, I am
ignorant of the general form of the paper, but it was good enough to
succeed.</P><P>Her put forward a "loanable funds scheme" to our 1950's
Royal Commission, the aim of which was to make the banks "borrow to lend".
The Commission was about as enthusiastic about it as it was about the
Social Credit submissions.</P><P>Kelliher himself did not appear, but he
hired a high-powered legal team, which also helped at times
to dig out the Social Crediters from some of the traps they walked
into. The main one was, of course, that they claimed the existence of a
sizeable "gap" and were confounded by official figures showing exact
equilibrium. Only some time later did they discover that GNP (as then
called) was based on returns of income, on the theory that equation
existed!</P><P>When my daughter Melissa, in her final school year, went
for the final interview with H.J.K. and one or more of his advisers,
following presentation of her essay, she went in, as any young girl would,
with some degree of trepidation. My wife, (her stepmother) who
stayed out in the reception room, shortly heard peals of laughter coming
from the interview room. Obviously, the man had a human side.</P><P>I can
not give you references to any of his writings, which I think were mainly
or only per editorials in his paper. The ultimate resource for
material of this sort in NZ is our Parliamentary Library, probably per a
public library for us.</P><P>Regards. <FONT
color=#339933 size=4>John R.</FONT></P><BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT:
5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT:
0px"><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif"><HR
color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1>From: <I>kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Kenneth
Palmerton)</I><BR>Reply-To: <I>socialcredit@elistas.com</I><BR>To:
<I>socialcredit@elistas.com</I><BR>CC:
<I>kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk</I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: [socialcredit]
Putting it all together</I><BR>Date: <I>Wed, 4 Jan 2006 16:01 +0000
(GMT)</I><BR>>In-Reply-To:
<BAY21-F4FF116B6FFAAC0415B06EBD2F0@phx.gbl><BR>>Hi
John.<BR>><BR>>Would you care to tell us a bit more about Kelliher
please ? I believe I<BR>>have some of his writings somewhere
here.<BR>><BR>>The name is known to me, but it would be useful to be
able to put him into<BR>>context from someone who knows
:-)<BR>><BR>>I think you are right about Soddy and A+B. But then he
was not alone in<BR>>nearly getting there, but not quite. In fact I
believe that Keynes himself<BR>>was in that category. He accepted a
"gap", though only admitted to it<BR>>being in the nature of a
depreciation figure.<BR>><BR>>As he was a consummate snob there was
no way he, a hide bound academic<BR>>intellectual, would admit to being
upstaged by a heretic, and a non<BR>>academic heretic at that
:-(((<BR>><BR>>I believe Keynes provided the thunder. But it was
Douglas that gave
the<BR>>lightening.<BR>><BR>>Ken.<BR>><BR>>--------
Original Message
--------<BR>><BR>>X-Envelope-From:<BR>>socialcredit-return-3301-ke
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<004801c61012$818a0640$b86437d2@computer><BR>>From: "John G
Rawson" <johngrawson@hotmail.com><BR>>To:
socialcredit@elistas.com<BR>>Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 06:02:35
+0000<BR>>Mime-Version: 1.0<BR>>Content-Type: text/html;
format=flowed<BR>>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jan 2006 06:02:36.0241
(UTC)<BR>>FILETIME=[75E16C10:01C610F4]<BR>>Subject: Re:
[socialcredit] Putting it all together<BR>>X-Envelope-To:
kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk<BR>>X-UIDL:
_lo.Pm5uDB.mta03.mx<BR>><BR>><html><div
style='background-color:'><P>Bill, it might take a
little<BR>>finding, but I have a copy of his "Wealth, Virtual Wealth
and Debt".</P><BR>><P>To me, basically he agreed with
Douglas but did not accept the A+B<BR>>model. However, he did
attribute a small "gap" to savings. My<BR>>assessment is that, while
using different forms of expression, he<BR>>underestimated it and
Douglas overestimaterd it.</P><BR>><P>Out of interest, when
Kelliher was running his crusade for monetary<BR>>reform via his paper
the "Mirror", obviously he was of the Soddy<BR>>school. Using
this knowledge, I coached two girls at different times<BR>>to win
Kelliher essay prizes on banking etc., which were valuable to
their<BR>>university studies. I kept them away from SC, -
until<BR>>afterwards. One was my daughter Melissa, the other
a Jewish student.<BR>>The latter became an active member of our Youth
Section in Whangarei.</P><BR>><P>With our sort of
knowledge, it was there for the taking every four<BR>>years or so, with
people trained by ordinary economics teachers missing<BR>>out on what
Kelliher wanted. But very few kids could be
bothered.</P><BR>><P>Regards. <FONT
color=#339933 size=4>John
R.</FONT></P><BR>><BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;<BR>>BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT:
0px"><FONT<BR>>style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY:
tahoma,sans-serif"><BR>><HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1><BR>>From:
<I>"W. McGunnigle"
<wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz></I><BR>Reply-To:<BR>>&l
t;I>socialcredit@elistas.com</I><BR>To:<BR>><I>&
;lt;socialcredit@elistas.com></I><BR>Subject:
<I>Re: [socialcredit]<BR>>Putting it all
together</I><BR>Date: <I>Tue, 3 Jan 2006
16:05:08<BR>>+1300</I><BR><BR><META
content="Microsoft SafeHTML"
name=Generator><BR>><STYLE><BR>></STYLE><BR>><BR>&g
t;<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi
Martin</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT
face=Arial<BR>>size=2> &nb
sp; <BR>> &
;nbsp; Where can I obtain copies of the work
of<BR>>Professor Soddy? The paper you created in 1988 was of great
interest to<BR>>me, and followed much of the thinking pattern that
colours my thoughts on<BR>>the monetary reform matters.
</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2> I
certainly<BR>>agree that the monetary concepts that govern so called
"modern economics"<BR>>definitely do not cope
with</FONT> <FONT face=Arial size=2>the
ever<BR>>increasing debt problem, and its stiffling effect on human
development.<BR>>Effectively we have a monetary system developed in the
15th century geared<BR>>to the selfish needs of Italian single city
states trying to cope with a<BR>>global economy that requires global
equity of opportunity to access<BR>>finance. The situation is
unstable, hence we have want and starvation in a<BR>>world of
plenty.</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2> Bill Mc
Gunnigle</FONT></DIV><BR>><BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px;<BR>>MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><BR>><DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
</DIV><BR>><DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial;
font-color:<BR>>black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=hattersleyjm@interbaun.com<BR>>href="mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun
.com">Martin Hattersley</A> </DIV><BR>><DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=socialcredit@elistas.com<BR>>href="mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com
">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> </DIV><BR>><DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 02,
2006 1:44<BR>>PM</DIV><BR>><DIV style="FONT: 10pt
arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [socialcredit] Putting<BR>>it
all
together</DIV><BR>><DIV><BR></DIV><BR>><DI
V><FONT size=2>Yes, Joe, I sent that paper on Soddy out more for
his<BR>>discussion of the "J curve", which I think is another way of
looking at<BR>>A+B, rather than for adopting his ideas holus bolus.
</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT
size=2></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT
size=2>There are more ways than one to skin a cat, and<BR>>Douglas's
price discount is the neatest way of balancing
production<BR>>with demand, without demanding unnecessary work from
anyone, that I know<BR>>of - a definitely better
alternative.</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT
size=2></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV>Martin
Hattersley<BR>1970-10123-99 St., <BR>EDMONTON
AB<BR>>CANADA<BR>Phone
(780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247<BR>e-mail:
<A<BR>>href="mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun.com">hattersleyjm@inter
baun.com</A></DI<BR>>V><BR>><BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px;<BR>>MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><BR>><DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
</DIV><BR>><DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial;
font-color:<BR>>black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca<BR>>href="mailto:thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca">Joe
Thomson</A> </DIV><BR>><DIV style="FONT: 10pt
arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=socialcredit@elistas.com<BR>>href="mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com
">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> </DIV><BR>><DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December
31, 2005<BR>>10:31 PM</DIV><BR>><DIV style="FONT: 10pt
arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [socialcredit] Putting<BR>>it
all
together</DIV><BR>><DIV><BR></DIV><BR>><DI
V><FONT face=Arial>That's a very interesting
paper,<BR>>Martin, as are all your pieces.
Thanks. I don't<BR>>think it hurts to
explore some of the ideas of others in comparison to<BR>>those
of Douglas.
</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV><FON
T face=Arial>In Soddy I see some similarities with
Douglas,<BR>>but different terminology and concepts. And
objective. Soddy seems<BR>>to be more in favour of a 'stable price
level' than a constantly
'falling'<BR>>one. As Douglas
envisioned through an application<BR>> of
credit enabling all the benefits of continually
advancing<BR>>technology to be accessed 'financially' by
consumers in the provision<BR>>of desired product, As well
as provision
for increased<BR>>leisure .
</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV><FON
T face=Arial>Soddy seems to prefer 'government' creating
credit<BR>>for spending on infrastructure rather than new debt-free
'consumer'<BR>>credits to individuals. Is this a large part
of the<BR>>reason why many find
'government' infrastructure spending<BR>>in a slump
so attractive? To try to keep up the
price<BR>>level? </FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV><FON
T face=Arial>I guess it's difficult for many to
initially<BR>> envision how 'consumer' goods could be sold for
less than financial<BR>>cost on an ongoing basis without businesses
being<BR>>ruined, Simply through the
employment of a<BR>> different technique of
credit. But I think<BR>> true
'consumer' demand made ''effective demand''
would then<BR>> create renewed economic activity far
more effectively than<BR>>'infrastructure spending' pump priming ever
will. </FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV><FON
T face=Arial> I've nothing against 'needed'
infrastructure<BR>>being built, but not as 'make work' projects to
provide an unnecessary<BR>>'moral' reason for paying people an
'income'. As well as<BR>>a means
of keeping them 'under control'.
</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV><FON
T face=Arial>Soddy sounds like a bit of a 'puritan' to
me<BR>>in that regard~ he seems concerned to keep
everyone<BR>>'working'. The goal of a
triumph of the individual's<BR>>'will-to-freedom'
over the 'will-to-power' externally imposed<BR>>economically on
him, something so prevalent in
Douglas,<BR>> seems to be absent with
Soddy. </FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><F
ONT
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV><FON
T face=Arial> I get the impression from what you've
written<BR>>and quoted he thinks the 'government'
knows<BR>>best. Personally, I think once
we get Douglas completely<BR>>figured out, Soddy will best
remain remembered for
discovering<BR>>isotopes.</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV><FON
T
face=Arial>Joe</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV> <
/DIV><BR>><DIV>----- Original Message -----
</DIV><BR>><BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px;
PADDING-LEFT: 5px;<BR>>MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><BR>><DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4;
FONT: 10pt arial; font-color:<BR>>black"><B>From:</B>
<A
title=hattersleyjm@interbaun.com<BR>>href="mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun
.com">Martin Hattersley</A> </DIV><BR>><DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=socialcredit@elistas.com<BR>>href="mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com
">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> </DIV><BR>><DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December
29, 2005<BR>>7:02 PM</DIV><BR>><DIV style="FONT: 10pt
arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [socialcredit] Putting<BR>>it
all together</DIV><BR>><DIV><BR></DIV>I'm
attaching a paper I did a while back on the late<BR>>Professor Soddy
for the <BR>Eastern Economics Association. I think
Soddy's<BR>>description of the "J curve" <BR>phenomenon
essentially describes the<BR>>problem we have to
tackle.<BR><BR>Martin
Hattersley<BR>1970-10123-99<BR>>St.,<BR>EDMONTON AB
CANADA<BR>Phone<BR>>(780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247<BR>e-mail
:
<A<BR>>href="mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun.com">hattersleyjm@inter
baun.com</A><BR><BR>>----- Original Message -----
<BR>From: "Joe
Thomson"<BR>><thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca><BR>To:<BR>>&am
p;lt;socialcredit@elistas.com><BR>Sent: Thursday, December
29, 2005 9:35<BR>>AM<BR>Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Putting it
all together<BR><BR><BR>>I<BR>>agree with a
great deal of what Martin has written identifying
the<BR>><BR>>problems, but I do not fully concur with some
of the solutions. This<BR>>may<BR>> well be due
to a lack of knowledge on my part, or that I'm<BR>>reading into
<BR>> what<BR>> Martin's proposing something
that isn't<BR>>intended by him. But there are
<BR>> some<BR>> concerns I have<BR>>with some
of what's proposed nevertheless. I'll come
back<BR>> to<BR>>them later, but for the moment I'd like
to comment on just<BR>>this.<BR>><BR>>
(Martin wrote:-) > 5. What this initial<BR>>expression
of the theorem omitted<BR>> was the fact
that<BR>>><BR>>certain industries distribute wages
to their workers, while not<BR>>putting<BR>>> goods
on the market for immediate sale to consumers.<BR>>These are
the<BR>> factories<BR>>> that make the
tools that<BR>>workers will later use to turn out
actual<BR>> products.<BR>>><BR>>While
this new capital formation is taking place, its
distribution<BR>>of<BR>> funds<BR>>>
to consumers in wages and dividends,<BR>>particularly when financed by
newly<BR>>> created bank credit,<BR>>serves as a
form of National Dividend that makes it<BR>>>
possible<BR>>for the consuming public to buy all that is on the market
for<BR>><BR>>sale,<BR>>> without
producers being forced to sell
below<BR>>cost.<BR>><BR>> (Joe
replies:-) There is a quote in one of the<BR>>early Douglas
books that<BR>> remarks " ....just as
the<BR>>construction of a new railway bridge raises
the<BR>> price of bacon in<BR>>a village shop."
While there is no doubt that 'newly<BR>> created<BR>>bank
credit' to finance new works serves as you say, however it
is<BR>><BR>>also, I think, true what Douglas
says.<BR>><BR>> He notes that the<BR>>upper
limit of price is governed roughly by the <BR>>
'quantity<BR>><BR>>theory of money'. The lower by
financial 'cost'. If there's
'more<BR>>money<BR>> about' the merchant is going to try
and get 'more' of<BR>>it. He has to,
if<BR>> he's to stay in business. <BR>>Simply
because the fact there IS 'more money<BR>> about' has
diluted<BR>>the purchasing power of ALL money
about.<BR>><BR>> He is selling in<BR>>the
hopes of making a profit. The same as a bank lends at<BR>>
interest<BR>>in hopes of the same. But money is variable in
what it will <BR>><BR>>'buy',<BR>>
and he has to continually replace and, if selling<BR>>more,
increase, his <BR>> stock<BR>> in
trade. (Just as a bank<BR>>has to increase its 'stock', its
'deposits' or<BR>> whatever else we've<BR>>been foolish
enough to allow it to use as its <BR>>
reserves,<BR>><BR>>if it wants to lend 'more'. There is a
'cost' to doing this ~ banks<BR>>'pay'<BR>> interest as
well as receive it. And 'more' interest when<BR>>they want
more<BR>> deposits.)<BR>><BR>> If
the stock the<BR>>merchant buys has risen in price, what he might have
<BR>><BR>>taken<BR>> for himself in profit is
diminished. It goes back to<BR>>fund the new stock,
<BR>> or<BR>> he has to take out a
larger<BR>>overdraft to do so. His sales may be
rising,<BR>> and so in terms<BR>>of dollars may be his
profit. But the RATE of profit in<BR>><BR>>ratio
to that increase in sales taken over time is
in<BR>>continuing <BR>> decline.<BR>>
'Interest' and 'profit', considered<BR>>in the business sense, are
exactly the<BR>> same. One of the<BR>>components
of 'interest', as we've seen, is allowance <BR>>
for<BR>><BR>>'inflation'. One of the components
of 'profit' would likely then<BR>>have to <BR>>
be<BR>> the same. It is why I believe
Douglas<BR>>noted that "large works on <BR>>
completion<BR>> are paid for by an<BR>>expansion of
credit." The words "on completion" imply<BR>>
there<BR>>must be a FURTHER expansion of credit beyond that which took
place<BR>><BR>> to<BR>> initiate the
construction of those 'large<BR>>works'. The 'inflation'
is<BR>> continuous, and the community<BR>>pays for its
progress twice. Unless there <BR>>
is<BR>> an<BR>>implimentation of the SC prescription,
whereupon we can finally begin<BR>><BR>>
to<BR>> enjoy as consumers the fruits of progress at
the<BR>>proper decline in overall<BR>> retail prices that
capital appreciation<BR>>should have brought
about.<BR>><BR>><BR>>-------------------------
--------------------------------------------<BR>&g<BR>>t;
Some introductory<BR>>materials to the discussion topic of this list
are
at<BR>><BR>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<
;BR>> You're subscribed to<BR>>this list with the email
hattersleyjm@interbaun.com<BR>> For more<BR>>information,
visit<BR>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR>><
BR>><BR>> --<BR>><BR>> No
virus<BR>>found in this incoming message.<BR>> Checked by
AVG Free<BR>>Edition.<BR>> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus
Database: 267.14.9/216 - Release<BR>>Date:
29/12/2005<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR><BR>&
lt;BR>---------------------------------------------------------------<BR
>>------<BR>Some<BR>>introductory materials to the discussion
topic of this list
are<BR>>at<BR>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR&g
t;You're subscribed<BR>>to this list with the email
thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca<BR>For more information,<BR>>visit
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR><BR>><P><BR>>
<HR><BR>><BR>><P></P>No virus found in this
outgoing message.<BR>Checked by AVG
Free<BR>>Edition.<BR>Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database:
267.14.9/216 -
Release<BR>>Date:<BR>>29/12/2005<BR><BR><BR>-------
----------------------------------------------<BR>>----------------<B
R>Som<BR>>e introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
list
are<BR>>at<BR>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR&g
t;You're subscribed<BR>>to this list with the email
thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca<BR>For more information,<BR>>visit
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>&g
t;<P><PRE>-----------------------------------------------------
--------------<BR>>--<BR>>Some introductory materials to
the discussion topic of this list are
at<BR>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR>>You're
subscribed to this list with the email
hattersleyjm@interbaun.com<BR>>For more information, visit
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><BR>><P><BR>><P><BR>><HR><BR>><BR>><
;P></P>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked
by AVG Free<BR>>Edition.<BR>Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database:
267.14.10/218 - Release<BR>>Date:
02/01/2006<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>><P><PRE>--------
-----------------------------------------------------------<BR>>--<BR>&g
t;Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
at<BR>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR>>You're
subscribed to this list with the email wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz<BR>>For
more information, visit
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR>><P></P></PRE
><BR>><P><BR>><P><BR>><HR><BR>><BR>><
;P></P>No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>Checked
by AVG Free<BR>>Edition.<BR>Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database:
267.14.10/218 -
Release<BR>>Date:<BR>>02/01/2006<BR><BR><BR>-------
----------------------------------------------<BR>>----------------<B
R>Som<BR>>e introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
list
are<BR>>at<BR>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR&g
t;You're subscribed<BR>>to this list with the email
wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz<BR>For more information,<BR>>visit
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>&g
t;<P><PRE>-----------------------------------------------------
--------------<BR>>--<BR>>Some introductory materials to the
discussion topic of this list are
at<BR>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR>>You're
subscribed to this list with the email johngrawson@hotmail.com<BR>>For
more information, visit
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR>><P></P></PRE
><BR>><P><BR></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>&l
t;/div><br clear=all><hr>Need more<BR>>speed? Get <a
href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENNZ/2755??PS=47575";<BR>>target="_top">Xtr
a Broadband!</a>
</html><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><p><pre>----------
---------------------------------------------------------<BR>>--<BR>>
Some
introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
at<BR>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR>>You're
subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk<BR>>For
more information, visit
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR>><p></pre><p&
gt;<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></div><br
clear=all><hr>Become a fitness fanatic with <a
href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENNZ/2728??PS=47575"; target="_top">XtraMSN
Health & Fitness!</a> </html>
<p><pre>-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
You're subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
<p></pre><p>
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