| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Putting it all together | | Date: | Friday, January 13, 2006 08:10:57 (+0000) | | From: | John G Rawson <johngrawson @.......com>
|
Martin, how far did you go with the Monopoly game? I've been toying for yers
with the idea of a similar game run according to real life rules, to show how the
present system doesn't work. Without continual expansion etc.
I'd be interested in hearing more on this. Regards. John R.
From: "Martin Hattersley" <hattersleyjm@interbaun.com>
Reply-To:
socialcredit@elistas.com
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Subject: Re:
[socialcredit] Putting it all together
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:42:37
-0700
>Just one more thought on this. When I did my simulation of banking
>in a
Monopoly game, one thing I noticed very quickly was that income
>from interest
was not really a very big factor in the bank's
>profits. What really made the
profit was to blow up the money supply
>with big loans, and then create a
"credit squeeze" by calling those
>loans in, and so obtain foreclosed property
at fire sale prices.
>These would then be sold again at a very good profit when
new credit
>was created to bring about boom conditions once more.
>
>It's known
as the "trade
cycle"!
>
>Martin Hattersley
>1970-10123-99 St.,
>EDMONTON AB CANADA
>Phone
(780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247
>e-mail: hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
>-----
Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Palmerton"
><kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>Cc:
<kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 9:28
AM
>Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Putting it all together
>
>
>>In-Reply-To:
<001e01c61539$eeabe640$bad44246@cc.shawcable.net>
>>Hi Joe.
>>
>>Although we
here in the UK have not yet gone the way of Canada,
>>most
>>current accounts
here do NOT attract fees to operate, the writing
>>is on
>>our wall
too.
>>
>>For me, if our banks DID merely act as our
bookkeepers, a valuable
>>service, I for one think they are entitled to be paid
for that
>>service.
>>"Every labourer is worthy of their hire ":-)
>>
>>But, and
it is a BIG but. The history of the development of banking
>>leaves
>>us with no
option but the understanding that at the centre of
>>banking, its
>>control, is
the wish to dominate by control of the ISSUE of the
>>medium of
>>exchange we
use.
>>
>>An issue as debt, and with a price upon that essential service
>>that
has
>>been created out of nothing. A price as high as can be squeezed
>>out of
a
>>needful population. Leading inevitably to escalating indebtedness,
>>and
>>slavery.
>>
>>This is extortion, and the price should be called
what it is in
>>reality,
>>USURY.
>>
>>The two issues have been allowed to
become inextricably linked in
>>the
>>minds of the people. We with our tiny
current accounts are the
>>small beer
>>of banking after all. So maybe we should
try to de link them.
>>
>>Ken.
>>
>>-------- Original Message
--------
>>
>>X-Envelope-From:
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>>Mon, 09 Jan 2006 09:28:50 -0700 (MST)
>>Date:
Mon, 09 Jan 2006 08:29:58 -0800
>>From: Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
>>To:
socialcredit@elistas.com
>>Message-id:
<001e01c61539$eeabe640$bad44246@cc.shawcable.net>
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>><004801c61012$818a0640$b86437d2@computer>
>><005e01c61093$de655e60$9c4722cf@martinh4>
>><004c01c61247$7534a440$cb6637d2@computer>
>><001801c6124e$a459dea0$807ba8c0@martinhmicron>
>><001201c6132a$e7814240$e06437d2@computer>
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>><002601c614bb$8be33140$bad44246@cc.shawcable.net>
>><006001c614e1$54de74e0$5d6437d2@computer>
>>Subject:
Re: [socialcredit] Putting it all together
>>X-Envelope-To:
kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
>>X-UIDL:
_EKF.batwDB.mta05.mx
>>
>>------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C614F6.E03DE1A0
>>Content-Type:
text/plain;
>> charset="iso-8859-1"
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
>>
>>Hello Bill (McGunnigle),
>>
>>I think most of us, in noting how Banks now
charge us for what was
>>once =
>>'free', feel exactly as you do. That they are
'parasites'.
>>Amongst the =
>>few large chartered Banks in Canada that dominate
the provision of
>>=
>>financial services here, there are none now that I'm
aware of that
>>=
>>don't charge the depositor a monthly fee for keeping his
>>account.=20
>>
>>And they all, to my knowledge, charge for each deposit and
>>withdrawal.
=
>>Though sometimes these charges are masked, by hiding them in some
=
>>monthly 'Plan' fee, which gives access to a variety of other
>>services.
>>
>>Be that as it may, and however much we may all detest it, I
think
>>we =
>>might be wise to look beyond that. To the 'big picture'. And I
>>wonder =
>>sometimes if Banks ''as businesses'' are not somewhat beset by the
>>same =
>>problems every other business sector faces? =20
>>
>>It would seem to
me that they would be. Though they may well have
>>a =
>>much better opportunity
to try to pass costs on than the rest of us
>>do, =
>>it occurs to me that those
'costs' must be continually rising =
>>nonetheless.=20
>>
>>True, in dollar
volume through writing
more loans the Banks'
>>profits =
>>have never been higher. But if we viewed
those 'loans' as their =
>>'sales', have their profits from that source as a
percentage of
>>sales =
>>actually increased? Or declined. I, myself, do not
know the
>>answer to =
>>that offhand. But I strongly suspect the latter.
Perhaps someone
>>else =
>>on here may, and could inform us.
>>
>>Just looking
at it superficially it seems that could be the case.
>>For =
>>here in Canada,
as elsewhere, there is the similar ''urge to
>>merge'' =
>>amongst the big Banks
as there is amongst many other large
>>businesses. I =
>>think there is ample
evidence that that particular 'urge' , hidden
>>under =
>>the guise of all the
reasons given
broadly as 'greater efficiency',
>>is =
>>often no more than a quest for
survival in businesses that are
>>actually =
>>witnessing a continuing decline
in overall rate of profit.=20
>>
>>This has certainly been born out in the forest
industry here in BC.
>> =
>>Where merger after merger has taken place, and,
while the price of
>>the =
>>product has increased over time, and there are no
doubt 'greater =
>>efficiencies' through the elimination of redundantcy , the
combined
>>=
>>entities never seem to achieve the same 'rate' of profit on sales
=
>>together that the previous separate ones were achieving singularly.
>>But
=
>>could they have continued to achieve that 'rate' singularly had
>>they not
=
>>merged? No ~ they'd
have gone exactly where they're still going,
>>only =
>>faster. Straight into
bankruptcy.
>>
>>It seems to me that a lot of this is the exact 'meat and
potatoes'
>>that =
>>A+B is properly concerned with. And that if we could just
>>understand =
>>what Douglas is telling us, we'd be well on our way to being
able
>>to =
>>push for a proper remedy.
>>
>>Joe
>> ----- Original Message
-----=20
>> From: W. McGunnigle=20
>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com=20
>> Sent:
Sunday, January 08, 2006 9:55 PM
>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Putting it all
together
>>
>>
>> Hi Joe
>> Your comment about the "costs" for "Bank Services" is
>>most =
>>interesting. When my commercial bank started charging
me for
>>services I =
>>didn't use I told them bluntly that I only expected to
pay for
>>services =
>>relevant to my needs. Their reply was virtually take it
or leave
>>it. My =
>>reply was get stuffed then and I found another bank who
respected
>>my =
>>views.=20
>> However your point about how banks have
deliberately
>>escalated =
>>costs over the last 20 years is well made. Once
content with the =
>>substancial profits they made on loan servicing, they have
>>exploited =
>>their monopoly of money transactions in our progressively
"cashless
>>=
>>society" to rip us off even more. The old "Robber Barons" have
>>nothing =
>>on these modern parasites.
>> Bill McGunnigle
>> ----- Original
Message
-----=20
>> From: Joe Thomson=20
>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com=20
>> Sent:
Monday, January 09, 2006 2:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Putting it all
together
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> (Martin wrote:-) I still like the idea of organizing
=
>>"International Honesty Day" - a date (I suggest April 1st) when as
>>many
=
>>folks in the world as can be persuaded to do so ask to withdraw
>>their
=
>>deposits from the bank in cash "just to make sure they are there".
>>It
=
>>might be educational.=20
>>
>> (Joe replies:-) If I recall correctly, the
small print in the
>>back =
>>of my old, original Bank of Montreal passbook
stated that the Bank
>>had =
>>up to seven days to come up with the cash. In any
case, with what
>>they =
>>nick us in service fees now to make a withdrawal,
coupled with a
>>further =
>>hit when we re-deposit it after our 'protest' is
over, they'd
>>probably =
>>be laughing "all the way to the Bank!"=20
>>
>> I no
longer have my old passbook, but I do still have a
>>little =
>>booklet that the
B of M gave every new depositor when they opened
>>an =
>>account with them back
in the early 1960's. It is truly amazing
>>how =
>>many services provided then,
in the pre-computer era, by a Bank
>>full of =
>>people, were 'free'.
=20
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Some
introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>are
at
>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>You're subscribed to this
list with the email wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz
>>For more information, visit
>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Some
introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>are
at
>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>You're subscribed to this
list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
>>For more information, visit
>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Some
introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>are
at
>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>You're subscribed to this
list with the email
>>kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>>For more information, visit
>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>
>>------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C614F6.E03DE1A0
>>Content-Type:
text/html;
>> charset="iso-8859-1"
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
>>
>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0
Transitional//EN">
>><HTML><HEAD>
>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html;
=
>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106"
name=3DGENERATOR>
>><STYLE></STYLE>
>></HEAD>
>><BODY
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2>Hello Bill
>>(McGunnigle),</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think most of
us, in noting how
>>Banks =
>>now charge=20
>>us for what was once 'free', feel
exactly as you do. That
>>they are =
>>
>>'parasites'. Amongst the
few large chartered Banks in Canada
>>that =
>>dominate=20
>>the provision of
financial services here, there are none now
>>that =
>>I'm=20
>>aware of
that don't charge the depositor a monthly fee for
>>keeping
=
>>his=20
>>account. </FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> And they
all, to my
>>knowledge, =
>>charge for=20
>>each deposit and withdrawal.
Though sometimes these charges
>>are =
>>masked, by=20
>>hiding them in some
monthly 'Plan' fee, which gives access to a
>>variety =
>>of
other=20
>>services.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Be that as it
may, and however
>>much we =
>>may all=20
>>detest it, I think we might be wise
to look beyond that. To
>>the =
>>'big=20
>>picture'. And I wonder
sometimes if Banks ''as businesses''
>>are =
>>not=20
>>somewhat beset by the same problems every other business
sector =
>>faces? =20
>></FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It would seem to
me that they
>>would =
>>be. =20
>>Though they may well have a much better
opportunity to try to pass
>>costs =
>>on than=20
>>the rest of us do, it occurs
to me that those 'costs' must be =
>>continually
rising=20
>>nonetheless. </FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> True, in
dollar volume
>>through
=
>>writing more=20
>>loans the Banks' profits have never been higher. But
if we
>>viewed =
>>those=20
>>'loans' as their 'sales', have their profits from
that source as
>>a=20
>><EM>percentage</EM> of sales actually increased?
Or =
>>declined. I,=20
>>myself, do not know the answer to that
offhand. But I =
>>strongly=20
>>suspect the latter. Perhaps
someone else on here may, and
>>could
=
>>inform=20
>>us.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just looking at it
>>superficially =
>>it seems that=20
>>could be the
case. For here in Canada, as elsewhere, there is
>>the
=
>>similar=20
>>''urge to merge'' amongst the big Banks as there is amongst many
>>other =
>>large=20
>>businesses. I think there is ample evidence that
that
>>particular=20
>>'urge' , hidden under the guise of all the reasons
given
>>broadly as =
>>
>>'greater efficiency', is often no more than a quest
for survival in
>>=
>>businesses=20
>>that are actually witnessing a continuing
<EM>decline</EM> in
>>overall=20
>><EM>rate</EM> of
profit. </FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This has
certainly been born out
>>in the =
>>forest=20
>>industry here in BC.
Where merger after merger has taken
>>place, =
>>and, while=20
>>the price of
the product has increased over time, and there
>>are no
=
>>doubt=20
>>'greater efficiencies' through the elimination of redundantcy ,
the
>>=
>>combined=20
>>entities never seem to achieve the same 'rate' of
profit on
>>sales =
>>together=20
>>that the previous separate ones were
achieving singularly. But
>>=
>>could they=20
>>have continued to achieve
that 'rate' singularly had they not =
>>merged? No ~=20
>>they'd have gone
exactly where they're still going, only
>>faster.
=
>>Straight=20
>>into bankruptcy.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It seems to me
that a lot of this
>>is =
>>the exact=20
>>'meat and potatoes' that A+B is
properly concerned with. And
>>that =
>>if we=20
>>could just understand
what Douglas is telling us, we'd be well on
>>our =
>>way to=20
>>being able to
push for a proper remedy.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2>Joe</FONT></DIV>
>><BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT:
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
>></DIV>
>>
<DIV=20
>> style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color:
=
>>black"><B>From:</B>=20
>> <A title=3Dwmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz
=
>>href=3D"mailto:wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz">W.=20
>> McGunnigle</A> </DIV>
>> <DIV
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
=
>>title=3Dsocialcredit@elistas.com=20
>>
>>href=3D"mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com">socialcredit@elistas.com</A>
>>=
>></DIV>
>> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, January 08,
>>2006
=
>>9:55=20
>> PM</DIV>
>> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re:
>>[socialcredit] =
>>Putting it=20
>> all together</DIV>
>> <DIV><BR></DIV>
>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Joe</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT
face=3DArial=20
>>
size=3D2>
>>Your
=
>>comment=20
>> about the "costs" for "Bank Services" is most interesting.
>>When =
>>my=20
>> commercial bank started charging me for services I didn't
use I
>>told =
>>them=20
>> bluntly that I only expected to pay for services
relevant to my
>>needs.
=
>>Their=20
>> reply was virtually take it or leave it. My reply was get
stuffed
>>then =
>>and I=20
>> found another bank who respected my views.
</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial
=
>>size=3D2> =20
>> However your point
about how banks have deliberately escalated
>>costs =
>>over the=20
>> last 20
years is well made. Once content with the substancial
>>profits =
>>they=20
>>
made on loan servicing, they have exploited their monopoly of
>>money=20
>>
transactions in our progressively "cashless society" to rip us
>>off =
>>even
more.=20
>> The old "Robber Barons" have nothing on these modern
=
>>parasites.</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2>
>>Bill=20
>> McGunnigle</FONT></DIV>
>>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
>>=
>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
>></DIV>
>>
<DIV=20
>> style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color:
=
>>black"><B>From:</B>=20
>> <A title=3Dthomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
=
>>href=3D"mailto:thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca">Joe=20
>> Thomson</A> </DIV>
>> <DIV
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
=
>>title=3Dsocialcredit@elistas.com=20
>>
=
>>href=3D"mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com">socialcredit@elistas.com</A>
>>=
>></DIV>
>> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January
>>09, =
>>2006 2:25=20
>> PM</DIV>
>> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt
arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re:
>>[socialcredit] =
>>Putting it=20
>> all
together</DIV>
>> <DIV><BR></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
>> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px;
PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT:
>>5px; =
>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid;
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>> <DIV><FONT
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>> <DIV>(Martin wrote:-) I still like the
idea of
>>organizing=20
>> "International Honesty Day" - a date (I suggest April
1st)
>>when as =
>>many=20
>> folks in the world as can be persuaded to do so
ask to
>>withdraw =
>>their=20
>> deposits from the bank in cash "just to make
sure they are
>>there". =
>>It=20
>> might be educational. </DIV>
>>
<DIV> </DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>(Joe replies:-) If I recall
=
>>correctly, the=20
>> small print in the back of my old, original Bank of
>>Montreal =
>>passbook=20
>> stated that the Bank had up to seven days to come
up with the
>>=
>>cash. =20
>> In any case, with what they nick us in
service fees
>>now =
>>to make=20
>> a withdrawal, coupled with a further hit
when we re-deposit =
>>it after=20
>> our 'protest' is over, they'd probably
be laughing "all the
>>way to =
>>the=20
>> Bank!" </FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT
face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I no longer have my
old passbook, =
>>but I do=20
>> still have a little booklet that the B of M
gave every new =
>>depositor when=20
>> they opened an account with them back in
the early
>>1960's. =
>>It is=20
>> truly amazing how many services
provided
then, in the
>>pre-computer =
>>era, by=20
>> a Bank full of people, were
'free'. </FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
>>
=
>><P><PRE>-----------------------------------------------------------------=
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>><P></P></PRE>
>>
<P></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
>>
=
>><P><PRE>-----------------------------------------------------------------=
>>----
>>Some
introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>are
at
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>><P></P></PRE>
>>
<P></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>>
>>
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>>Some
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>>are
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>>You're subscribed to this
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>><p></pre><p>
>>
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