eListas - My Lists: socialcredit: Messages

Actually, Joe, some of the people that showed us round St. Petersberg would have been quite happy to go back from a system where they can't get 3,000 roubles per sq. metre to buy one of those apartments.

The hard cold fact is that the form of "darmarcracy" that they have been given is in some respects quite inferior to the old communist system. And I'm no communist!

Regards. John R.

From: Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:15:34 -0800
>Who wants to live in any of those Russian apartments and have a lifelong
>diet of only one kind of bread?
>
>Joe
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 12:56 PM
>Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>
>
> > In-Reply-To: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHIEFGGIAB.dan@danmorin.com>
> > Hi Dan.
> >
> > If Webster is to be elevated to the rank of biblical truth, then maybe you
> > can offer me an explanation of why it was that in the USSR between 1917
> > and 1970 the price of a loaf of bread, and the rent of a Moscow flat did
> > not increase.
> >
> > Despite the working population having huge amounts of un-spendable money
> > in their bank accounts.
> >
> > This was a classic case of increasing money supply, with inadequate goods
> > for sale.
> >
> > Why no price rise ?
> >
> > Ken.
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> >
> > X-Envelope-From:
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> > (EST)From: "Daniel Morin" <dan@danmorin.com>
> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 21:01:58 -0500
> > Message-ID: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHIEFGGIAB.dan@danmorin.com>
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> > In-Reply-To: <BAY21-F27F9B18DD2F90F8C2C9A6BD040@phx.gbl>
> > Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
> > X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
> > X-UIDL: _egH.Hs_7DB.mta02.mx
> >
> > ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90
> > Content-Type: text/plain;
> > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> >
> > Before making your own definition of inflation to fit your A+B model, here
> > is the definition of Inflation according to my Webster Dictionary:
> >
> > "An increase in the volume of money and credit relative to available goods
> > and services resulting in a continuing rise in the general price level."
> >
> > Source: Webster Collegial Dictionary, 1996.
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John G Rawson [mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:02 PM
> > To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and related
> > issues
> >
> >
> > First, define inflation. Invariably, it is measured as "rising prices",
> > which therefore that is my, and I think our Party's, definition of it. It
> > may be caused by "too much money ...", when it is "demand-pull inflation",
> > or by other factors (e.g. rising oil prices or higher interest rates) when
> > it is "cost-push inflation".
> >
> > And, once again, the A+B model postulates as a corollary that we have
> > cost-push inflation more than demand-pull. "There are factors in the
> > economy (B costs) that push the cost of goods above the level of consumer
> > purchasing power." So of course economists who deny the Douglas analkysis
> > don't understand where inflation is coming from.
> >
> > Regards. John R.
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-
> > -
> > From: "W. McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
> > Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and related
> > issues
> > Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 23:04:53 +1300
> > >Hi Kenneth
> > > I had not really considered that question of "inflation"
> > >as it operated in our economy, but was intrigued by your comment that
> > >socalled "economic experts" have never produced a really satisfactory
> > answer
> > >as to why it happens. I find that, on reflection, all their
> > "explanations"
> > >appear to be waffle with little or no substance to back up their
> > comments.
> > >They are very good at manipulating figures, but very short on
> > statisdtical
> > >analysis of those figures. They always have an excuse as to why their
> > >forecasts are incorrect. My youngest brother has a theory that
> > inflation has
> > >nothing to do with money or product availablity, but is the direct
> > result of
> > >propaganda perpetrated by banking organisations who encourage price
> > >increases by simply stating that inflation is increasing and prices
> > must
> > >increase to compensate for it. They don't have to state any reasons,
> > but
> > >simply create an atmosphere whereby price increases are accepted.
> > Inflation,
> > >i.e. increased costs for goods and services, follows on as a
> > self-induced,
> > >self-fullfilling prophesy. Effectively "inflation" is a mind set
> > rather >than an economic consequence. I cannot see how this can be
> > quantified,but I
> > >can see the logic in his argument. It certainly explains the
> > "stagflation"
> > >phenomena where costs still increased despite falling industrial
> > production
> > >and increasing unemployment.
> > > Bill Mc Gunnigle
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> > >To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > >Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> > >Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 5:40 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and related
> > issues
> > >
> > >
> > > > In-Reply-To: <00aa01c62844$b0b3d320$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
> > > > Hi Wallace.
> > > >
> > > > For a very long time I have been of the opinion that economists do
> > NOT
> > > > understand "inflation". Even their attempts to describe it, and
> > offer a
> > > > definition leave me much less than convinced of their competence.
> > > >
> > > > They seem to offer no logical explanation of why prices rise.
> > > >
> > > > I have sat with fellow directors of a manufacturing company around
> > our
> > > > board room table looking at each other wondering if our
>competitors
> > would
> > > > let us get away with a price rise of our products.
> > > >
> > > > This was not so much an exercise in maximising our profits, as
> > trying
> > > > desperately to cover our costs. This I believe is a common
> > scenario, > > common to most companies in mature markets.
> > > >
> > > > Coming to understand later the rightness of A+B has helped, with
> > its > > reference to purchasing power, which was the other thing we
> > Directors
> > > > agonised over. Would our customers have the money in their pockets
> > when
> > > > they chose our products ?
> > > >
> > > > This enlightenment came too late for me and mine I fear :-))
> > > >
> > > > Ken.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
> > at >http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > >You're subscribed to this list with the email johngrawson@hotmail.com
> > >For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-
> > -
> > --
> > Shop 'til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
> > http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > You're subscribed to this list with the email dan@danmorin.com
> > For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
> > http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > You're subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
> > For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> >
> > ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90
> > Content-Type: text/html;
> > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> > <HTML><HEAD>
> > <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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> > <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2604" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
> > <BODY>
> > <DIV> > color=3D#0000ff =
> > size=3D2>Before=20
> > making your own definition of inflation to fit your A+B model, here is =
> > the=20
> > definition of Inflation according to my Webster=20
> > Dictionary:</DIV>
> > <DIV> > color=3D#0000ff =
> >
> > size=3D2> </DIV>
> > <DIV>"An increase in the volume of =
> > money and=20
> > credit relative to available goods and services resulting in a =
> > continuing rise=20
> > in the general price level. > class=3D703295401-13022006>"</DIV>
> > <DIV> </DIV>
> > <DIV> > color=3D#0000ff =
> >
> > size=3D2>Source: Webster Collegial Dictionary, 1996.</DIV>
> > <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
> > style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px
> > =
> > solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> > <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft> > face=3DTahoma=20
> > size=3D2>-----Original Message----- From: John G Rawson=20
> > [mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, February 12, =
> > 2006=20
> > 3:02 PM To: socialcredit@elistas.com Subject:
> > Re:=20
> > [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and related=20
> > issues </DIV>
> > <DIV>
> > First, define inflation.  Invariably, it is measured as =
> > "rising=20
> > prices", which therefore that is my, and I think our Party's, =
> > definition=20
> > of it.  It may be caused by "too much money ...", when it is =
> > "demand-pull=20
> > inflation", or by other factors (e.g. rising oil prices or higher =
> > interest=20
> > rates) when it is "cost-push inflation".
> > And, once again, the A+B model postulates as a corollary that we =
> > have=20
> > cost-push inflation more than demand-pull.  "There are factors in =
> > the=20
> > economy (B costs) that push the cost of goods above the level of =
> > consumer=20
> > purchasing power." So of course economists who deny the Douglas =
> > analkysis=20
> > don't understand where inflation is coming from.
> > Regards.   John =
> > R.
> > <BLOCKQUOTE=20
> > style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5
> > 2px =
> > solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20
> > style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif">
> > <HR color=3D#a0c6e5 SIZE=3D1>
> > From: "W. McGunnigle" =
> > <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz> Reply-To:=20
> > socialcredit@elistas.com To:=20
> > <socialcredit@elistas.com> Subject: Re: =
> > [socialcredit]=20
> > Social Credit and Inflation--and related issues Date: Sun, =
> > 12 Feb=20
> > 2006 23:04:53 +1300 >Hi Kenneth > I had not really=20
> > considered that question of "inflation" >as it operated in our =
> >
> > economy, but was intrigued by your comment that >socalled =
> > "economic=20
> > experts" have never produced a really satisfactory answer >as =
> > to why=20
> > it happens. I find that, on reflection, all their=20
> > "explanations" >appear to be waffle with little or no =
> > substance to=20
> > back up their comments. >They are very good at manipulating =
> > figures,=20
> > but very short on statisdtical >analysis of those figures. =
> > They always=20
> > have an excuse as to why their >forecasts are incorrect. My =
> > youngest=20
> > brother has a theory that inflation has >nothing to do with =
> > money or=20
> > product availablity, but is the direct result of >propaganda=20
> > perpetrated by banking organisations who encourage =
> > price >increases by=20
> > simply stating that inflation is increasing and prices =
> > must >increase=20
> > to compensate for it. They don't have to state any reasons,=20
> > but >simply create an atmosphere whereby price increases are =
> > accepted.=20
> > Inflation, >i.e. increased costs for goods and services, =
> > follows on as=20
> > a self-induced, >self-fullfilling prophesy. Effectively =
> > "inflation" is=20
> > a mind set rather >than an economic consequence. I cannot see =
> > how this=20
> > can be quantified, but I >can see the logic in his argument. =
> > It=20
> > certainly explains the "stagflation" >phenomena where costs =
> > still=20
> > increased despite falling industrial production >and =
> > increasing=20
> > unemployment. > Bill Mc Gunnigle >----- Original Message =
> >
> > ----- >From: "Kenneth Palmerton"=20
> > <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk> >To:=20
> > <socialcredit@elistas.com> >Cc:=20
> > <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk> >Sent: Friday, =
> > February 10,=20
> > 2006 5:40 AM >Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and=20
> > Inflation--and related issues > > > > =
> > In-Reply-To:=20
> > <00aa01c62844$b0b3d320$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny> > >
> > =
> > Hi=20
> > Wallace. > > > > For a very long time I have been =
> > of the=20
> > opinion that economists do NOT > > understand "inflation". =
> > Even=20
> > their attempts to describe it, and offer a > > definition =
> > leave me=20
> > much less than convinced of their competence. > > > =
> > > They=20
> > seem to offer no logical explanation of why prices rise. >=20
> > > > > I have sat with fellow directors of a =
> > manufacturing=20
> > company around our > > board room table looking at each =
> > other=20
> > wondering if our competitors would > > let us get away with =
> > a price=20
> > rise of our products. > > > > This was not so much =
> > an=20
> > exercise in maximising our profits, as trying > > =
> > desperately to=20
> > cover our costs. This I believe is a common scenario, > > =
> > common to=20
> > most companies in mature markets. > > > > Coming =
> > to=20
> > understand later the rightness of A+B has helped, with its > =
> > >=20
> > reference to purchasing power, which was the other thing we=20
> > Directors > > agonised over. Would our customers have the =
> > money in=20
> > their pockets when > > they chose our products ? >=20
> > > > > This enlightenment came too late for me and mine I =
> > fear=20
> > :-)) > > > > Ken. > > >=20
> > =
> > > > > >---------------------------------------------=
> > ------------------------ >Some=20
> > introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are=20
> > at >http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium >You're =
> >
> > subscribed to this list with the email =
> > johngrawson@hotmail.com >For=20
> > more information, visit=20
> > =
> > http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> > =
> > =20
> > clear=3Dall>
> > <HR>
> > Shop =91til you drop at <A =
> > href=3D"http://g.msn.com/8HMAENNZ/2743??PS=3D47575"=20
> > target=3D_top>XtraMSN Shopping</A>=20
> > =
> > <PRE>-----------------------------------------------------------------=
> > ----
> > Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
> > http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > You're subscribed to this list with the email dan@danmorin.com
> > For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> > </PRE>
> > </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
> >
> >
> >
><pre>-------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
> > http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > You're subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
> > For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> > </pre>
> >
> > ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90--
> >
> >
> >
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>You're subscribed to this list with the email johngrawson@hotmail.com
>For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit

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