In-Reply-To: <001a01c63420$d736d2d0$6600a8c0@HAINESCOMPUTER>
I agree with your analysis Peter.
A bit like the Irish directions, I would not start from here either :-))
In Europe the model that totally dominates economic thinking is the one
that has "The control of inflation" as its central, and only aim.
That it totally fails, and brings along with it most undesirable effects,
should not surprise us.
Ken.
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From: "Peter Haines" <cymric@xtra.co.nz>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
References: <memo.879317@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 13:18:27 +1300
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Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control
X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
X-UIDL: _C7E.nzp9DB.mta02.mx
Howdy Ken,
There is a position between the two extremes. That is to have a balance
between the price of goods and services and the money supply 'within the
economy'. This is what Douglas constructs by his diagnosis- within the
economy. Currently the banking system is outside and above the economy,
suppling the deficit which adds to the recurring inbalance.
In a previous post you said "Because I dont worship at the foot of Social
Credit, as some I fear do, your reference to what you say S.C. says about
increase in money supply escapes my memory."
This is the balance between the money supply and the goods and services-
ie backed by the 'gold' in the standard of living. One doesnt have to be
in a state of worship to want the same- a fair and workable system.
You also said "..the solution to what I for one wish to see happen are
found within its ( A plus B theorem) understanding". I agree.
The A plus B theorem would suggest that inflation ( too much money chasing
too few goods) would be virtaully an impossiblility as its the opposite.
But the capitalist economy is one of boom and bust. The inbalance builds
up cyclically and swings to the extremes and that is where I believe
inflation comes from. I dont believe we can find it by watching/studying
the standard nuts and bolts. That is why Douglas discovered the truth
about the flawed system of pricing/costs (A plus B) because he didnt look
at the standard nuts and bolts.
I think inflation is an aberration driven by the laws of maths which the
current system is continually fighting.
Peter H
---- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 2:58 AM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control
> In-Reply-To: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHMEIBGKAB.dan@danmorin.com>
> Hi Dan.
>
> What a great story :-) It would make a fabulous book. How about calling
it> 1984 ?
>
> But seriously, from the earliest times of classical economics certain
> assumptions were made about how a "free market" worked, and in theory it
> all made sense, up until the time that individuals and organisations
> started to fiddle with them.
>
> Some of the modifications had logic about them, and could be freely
> allowed after wide and open debate. But by far the greatest interferences
> were down to private vested interests, groups or individuals applying
> pressure, because they could, with the people giving way to them, because
> they couldn't :-(
>
> Most of us that have studied the alternatives to the existing money
> system, I think, are fairly clear about what should be in place if peace
> and justice are to be the norms. I think we know the private vested
> interests that should not be allowed.
>
> What I think is generally agreed is that a stable price level is
> desirable, and that the sort of emergency controls that the UK
experienced> in wartime could only be envisaged as a temporary measure.
And the> permanent controls of the Soviets not what most of us westerners
would> consider acceptable.
>
> There must be a position between the command economy and unbridled
> capitalism that can do the trick.
>
> Is that not so ?
>
> Ken.
>
> -------- Original Message --------
>
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> (EST)From: "Daniel Morin" <dan@danmorin.com>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 10:45:30 -0500
> Message-ID: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHMEIBGKAB.dan@danmorin.com>
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> In-Reply-To: <005f01c6329a$3a325f90$6b23e5cf@martinh4>
> Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control
> X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
> X-UIDL: _bTE.F1J9DB.mta02.mx
>
> The only way to guarantee a "price control" is to have a "police" willing
> tokill anyone "breaking the [price control] law". It is important this
> "police" makes decisions quickly, have no mercy and does not allow any
> trialand/or jury. You must be skilled producing propaganda to find a
> "good
> cause" why this "law breaker" got executed. This is quite easy you
> control
> the media (TV, Radio, Newspaper) and people don't have access to the
> Internet. If people discover their fellows are being executed being
> becausethey sold their loaf of bread a dime higher than the price set by
> politicians, then people would disapprove, but if they are being told
> another propaganda story, you may appear as a political hero rather than
a> serial killer. Bringing those "law breakers" to court would be a bad
> idea,
> because no jury would sentence to death someone selling a loaf of bread a
> bit too high.
>
> Giving fines to those selling on the "black market" does not work. Those
> individuals would pay the fines the same a they pay bribes... and
continue> business. Putting them to jail would fill the prisons, and
people would> wonder why they are in jail. The population would start
rebelling against> tyranny. Remember, propaganda is the key, and you must
act quickly to > stay
> in power.
>
> It is also important you teach young children the doctrine of the "police
> state" and why it is important for the cause. Without brainwashing,
those> children would learn that there are better alternatives than the
"police> state".
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Martin Hattersley [mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:35 PM
>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>
>>
>> My own researches lead me to believe that, although "wage and
>> price control"
>> may limit both wages ane prices in the short run, especially if
>> backed up by
>> some patriotic salesmanship, they inevitably break down as a
>> "black market"
>> develops. At which time prices and wages rise to what they would
>> have been,
>> based on money supply factors, had the controls never been put in place.
>>
>> Martin Hattersley
>> 1970-10123-99 St.,
>> EDMONTON AB CANADA
>> Phone (780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247
>> e-mail: hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:40 AM
>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>
>>
>> > In-Reply-To: <00a801c63211$5e7fbb60$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
>> > Hi Wally.
>> >
>> > My apologies if I have provoked you into a monologue upon your
feelings>> > about the Soviet system. And though I agree with you about the
>> downside s,
>> > that provocation was NOT my intention.
>> >
>> > I wished to challenge the orthodox assumption, that is
>> universally taught
>> > in the west, that if there is an increase in the money supply, there
> HAS> > to be an increase in prices.
>> >
>> > I have pointed out Galbraith s job of price control in WW2 in the US,
>> > though to suggest it now would almost certainly give the Gurus of Wall
>> > Street apoplexy :-)))
>> >
>> > Our experience here in the UK at that time was that Keynes
>> invented a form
>> > of compulsory saving, euphemistically called "Post War
>> Credits". In which
>> > the high wages of the workers left at home, and not unproductive and
in>> > uniform, were syphoned off from immediate purchasing power.
>> >
>> > So that cast iron "law" that we are all taught is not so cast iron
> after> > all :-))
>> >
>> > Ken.
>> >
>> > -------- Original Message --------
>> >
>> > X-Envelope-From:
>> >
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>> > Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 02:22:40 -0700
>> > From: "Wallace M. Klinck" <wmklinck@shaw.ca>
>> > To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>> > Message-id: <00a801c63211$5e7fbb60$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
>> > MIME-version: 1.0
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>> > References: <memo.703877@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>> > <001301c631a3$69b2e5c0$bad44246@cc.shawcable.net>
>> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>> > X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
>> > X-UIDL: _1cD.M5y8DB.mta02.mx
>> >
>> > Precisely, Joe.
>> >
>> > I was in Russia (and the Ukraine) around 1980 prior to the "fall" of
>> > "communism." They did not even have refrigeration. There were only
> two> > bookstores in Moscow--with nothing displayed (although McGraw-Hill
>> > textbooks were being unpacked in the back!) other than the
>> works of Marx,
>> > Lenin, and other communist authors. We flew on AeroFlot--but even our
>> > guide, Luba, was white-knuckled and admitted she didn't like
>> flying.. The
>> > food in the hotel was most unsavoury--and, although the paper
>> menu in the
>> > dining room was decidedly "gourmet", an attempt to order revealed that
>> > only about two dishes could actually be obtained--Stroganoff and
> chicken> > which latter was so tough it was impossible to cut! I
>> suggested to our
>> > guide that it must have been run over by a Russian tank! Oddly,
caviar>> > (which I can't stand) was served at a special dinner! Any
>> building in the
>> > country-side looked like a dilapidated relic from out of a previous
>> > century. Of course, I was aware that the state elite had special
>> > accommodation, imported food, special medical care, etc. The
>> distribution
>> > of income was actually much more unequal than in the West--with the
>> > existence of the Nomenklatura, a more or less secret class of
>> > millionaires. Sombre middle-aged men on aircraft pretended to
>> be reading
>> > newspapers while their eyes were trained on the back of the
>> seat in front,
>> > listening to whatever they could hear of other passengers'
>> talk. A friend
>> > of mine, raised to be sympathetic to communism, assisted in the
>> conduct of
>> > guided tours from Canada to the U.S.S.R. He was picked up and
>> > interrogated at nights by the K.G.B. and shown extensive scrapbooks
>> > listing people in Northern Alberta and asked what were their
>> politics and
>> > activities. Needless to say, my friend did an about face when
>> confronted
>> > with this priority given to "security" and "intelligence" by
>> the "supreme
>> > state." The socialist Utopia was seen to have "feet of clay."
>> >
>> > The point is, the scarcity and lack of elementary freedom
>> characteristic
>> > of the Soviet "system" represented inefficiency in delivering
abundance>> > and freedom to the consuming (or better, "working" or
"slaving")> public.> > The command economic (and political) system
allocated resources>> according
>> > to "state" priorities and was heavily skewed toward capital vs
consumer>> > goods--and was grossly inefficient from the standpoint of
delivering>> > consumer satisfaction. Money was plentiful because of the
Soviet> system> > of accountancy and controlled or administered prices, but
>> motivational and
>> > organizational problems resulted in shortages of real consumer
>> goods and
>> > services. The Soviet "economy" was more a mechanism designed
>> for "people
>> > control" than a genuine production system.
>> >
>> > Social Credit recognizes that excess and unnecessary production
>> of capital
>> > (and wasteful consumer) goods, merely to provide purchasing-power for
>> > purchase of earlier production, and so to "keep the system going", is
>> > inefficiency in terms of the Social Credit objective of a
>> > consumer-motivated economy. In both "capitalism" and "communism" an
>> > increasing and unwarranted
>> > emphasis is given to capital production--as a means of "people
> control."> > So although prices were controlled in a system of central
>> > state-administered "production" in communist U.S.S.R., this
>> was merely a
>> > masking of inflation by arbitrary means. The price to be paid in real
>> > terms was scarcity, misdirection of resources and political tyranny.
>> > Thus, according to the Social Credit concept of "inflation" as a
> measure> > or reflection of inefficiency, the U.S.S.R. was characterized
> by a very> > high level of "inflation."
>> >
>> > The inefficiency and misdirection of resources toward wasteful and
>> > destructive (e.g. war) ends in the West is a measure of the real
>> > "inflation" in this part of the world. Because the consumer is
>> charged in
>> > prices with capital depreciation but not credited with capital
>> > appreciation the consumer is robbed of the real benefits of modern
>> > technology by being allowed to access the results which flow
>> from it only
>> > by increasing work. The citizenry is, thereby, denied the increased
>> > potential leisure by which to enjoy not only the actual, but also the
>> > potential, real abundance which does, and which might, flow
>> from the ever
>> > modernizing productive system. All existing systems which
>> employ tools to
>> > produce goods and services are "capitalist." They merely vary in
> degree> > of centralized control and administration. They all are firmly
>> based upon
>> > the concept of work as the essential requisite and justification for
>> > consumption--as I have previously noted, upon the unChristian (and
>> > un-Social Credit) notion of Salvation through Works, as opposed to the
>> > concept of Salvation through Grace.
>> >
>> > Social Credit is distributist and offers a very different
dispensation,>> > where access to wealth is increasingly based upon right
by general>> > inheritance and increasingly less upon industrial,
commercial or>> > institutional "work", now essentially forced upon the
individual by the>> > necessity of survival in the context of excess
overall financial>> > costs--"payable" only by means of exponentially
expanding debt claims>> > against the future.
>> >
>> > Wally
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
>> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:15 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>> >
>> >
>> >> Who wants to live in any of those Russian apartments and have
>> a lifelong
>> >> diet of only one kind of bread?
>> >>
>> >> Joe
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>> >> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> >> Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>> >> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 12:56 PM
>> >> Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> In-Reply-To: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHIEFGGIAB.dan@danmorin.com>
>> >>> Hi Dan.
>> >>>
>> >>> If Webster is to be elevated to the rank of biblical truth, then
> maybe> >>> you
>> >>> can offer me an explanation of why it was that in the USSR
>> between 1917
>> >>> and 1970 the price of a loaf of bread, and the rent of a
>> Moscow flat did
>> >>> not increase.
>> >>>
>> >>> Despite the working population having huge amounts of un-spendable
>> > money>> in their bank accounts.
>> >>>
>> >>> This was a classic case of increasing money supply, with inadequate
>> > goods>> for sale.
>> >>>
>> >>> Why no price rise ?
>> >>>
>> >>> Ken.
>> >>>
>> >>> -------- Original Message --------
>> >>>
>> >>> X-Envelope-From:
>> >>> socialcredit-return-3390-kenpalmerton=cix.co.uk@elistas.comReceived:
>> > from>> q4.elistas.net (q4.elistas.net [216.66.20.202]) by
>> > mta02.mx.cix.co.uk>> (8.13.4/CIX/8.13.4) with SMTP id k1D3KbTF030724
>> >>> for <kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk>; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 03:20:37 GMT
>> >>> Received: (qmail 1117 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2006
>> 04:30:40 +0100
>> >>> Received: from mail.e-listas.com (66.7.164.206)
>> >>> by q4.elistas.net with EMQP; 13 Feb 2006 04:30:40 +0100
>> >>> Mailing-List: socialcredit@elistas.com
>> >>> X-No-Archive: yes
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>> >>> Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>> >>> List-Help: <mailto:socialcredit-help@elistas.com>
>> >>> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:socialcredit-unsubscribe@elistas.com>
>> >>> List-Subscribe: <mailto:socialcredit-subscribe@elistas.com>
>> >>> Delivered-To: list socialcredit@elistas.com
>> >>> Delivered-To: moderator for socialcredit@elistas.com
>> >>> Received: (qmail 18418 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2006
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>> >>> for <socialcredit@elistas.com>; Sun, 12 Feb 2006
>> 20:54:20 -0500
>> >>> (EST)From: "Daniel Morin" <dan@danmorin.com>
>> >>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> >>> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 21:01:58 -0500
>> >>> Message-ID: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHIEFGGIAB.dan@danmorin.com>
>> >>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> >>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>> >>> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90"
>> >>> X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
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>> >>> Importance: Normal
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>> >>> In-Reply-To: <BAY21-F27F9B18DD2F90F8C2C9A6BD040@phx.gbl>
>> >>> Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>> >>> X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
>> >>> X-UIDL: _egH.Hs_7DB.mta02.mx
>> >>>
>> >>> ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90
>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain;
>> >>> charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>> >>>
>> >>> Before making your own definition of inflation to fit your A+B
model,>> >>> here
>> >>> is the definition of Inflation according to my Webster Dictionary:
>> >>>
>> >>> "An increase in the volume of money and credit relative to available
>> >>> goods
>> >>> and services resulting in a continuing rise in the general
>> price level."
>> >>>
>> >>> Source: Webster Collegial Dictionary, 1996.
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: John G Rawson [mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com]
>> >>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:02 PM
>> >>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and
> related> >>> issues
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> First, define inflation. Invariably, it is measured as "rising
>> >>> prices",
>> >>> which therefore that is my, and I think our Party's, definition of
> it.> >>> It
>> >>> may be caused by "too much money ...", when it is "demand-pull
>> >>> inflation",
>> >>> or by other factors (e.g. rising oil prices or higher interest
rates)>> >>> when
>> >>> it is "cost-push inflation".
>> >>>
>> >>> And, once again, the A+B model postulates as a corollary
>> that we have
>> >>> cost-push inflation more than demand-pull. "There are factors in
the>> >>> economy (B costs) that push the cost of goods above the level of
>> > consumer>> purchasing power." So of course economists who deny
>> the Douglas
>> > analkysis>> don't understand where inflation is coming from.
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards. John R.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------->
>> > -
>> >>> -
>> >>> From: "W. McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
>> >>> Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>> >>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and
>> Inflation--and related
>> >>> issues
>> >>> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 23:04:53 +1300
>> >>> >Hi Kenneth
>> >>> > I had not really considered that question of "inflation"
>> >>> >as it operated in our economy, but was intrigued by your
comment>> >>> that
>> >>> >socalled "economic experts" have never produced a really
>> >>> satisfactory
>> >>> answer
>> >>> >as to why it happens. I find that, on reflection, all their
>> >>> "explanations"
>> >>> >appear to be waffle with little or no substance to back up
their>> >>> comments.
>> >>> >They are very good at manipulating figures, but very short on
>> >>> statisdtical
>> >>> >analysis of those figures. They always have an excuse as to why
>> >>> their
>> >>> >forecasts are incorrect. My youngest brother has a theory that
>> >>> inflation has
>> >>> >nothing to do with money or product availablity, but is
>> the direct
>> >>> result of
>> >>> >propaganda perpetrated by banking organisations who
>> encourage price
>> >>> >increases by simply stating that inflation is increasing
>> and prices
>> >>> must
>> >>> >increase to compensate for it. They don't have to state any
>> > reasons,>> but
>> >>> >simply create an atmosphere whereby price increases are
> accepted.> >>> Inflation,
>> >>> >i.e. increased costs for goods and services, follows on as a
>> >>> self-induced,
>> >>> >self-fullfilling prophesy. Effectively "inflation" is a mind
set>> >>> rather >than an economic consequence. I cannot see how this
can be>> >>> quantified,but I
>> >>> >can see the logic in his argument. It certainly explains the
>> >>> "stagflation"
>> >>> >phenomena where costs still increased despite falling
industrial>> >>> production
>> >>> >and increasing unemployment.
>> >>> > Bill Mc Gunnigle
>> >>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >>> >From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>> >>> >To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> >>> >Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>> >>> >Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 5:40 AM
>> >>> >Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and
>> > related>> issues
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > > In-Reply-To:
> <00aa01c62844$b0b3d320$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
>> >>> > > Hi Wallace.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > For a very long time I have been of the opinion that
>> economists
>> >>> do
>> >>> NOT
>> >>> > > understand "inflation". Even their attempts to
>> describe it, and
>> >>> offer a
>> >>> > > definition leave me much less than convinced of their
>> > competence.>> > >
>> >>> > > They seem to offer no logical explanation of why prices
rise.>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > I have sat with fellow directors of a manufacturing company
>> >>> around
>> >>> our
>> >>> > > board room table looking at each other wondering if our
>> >> competitors
>> >>> would
>> >>> > > let us get away with a price rise of our products.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > This was not so much an exercise in maximising our profits,
> as> >>> trying
>> >>> > > desperately to cover our costs. This I believe is a common
>> >>> scenario, > > common to most companies in mature markets.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > Coming to understand later the rightness of A+B has
>> helped, with
>> >>> its > > reference to purchasing power, which was the other thing
> we> >>> Directors
>> >>> > > agonised over. Would our customers have the money in their
>> >>> pockets
>> >>> when
>> >>> > > they chose our products ?
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > This enlightenment came too late for me and mine I fear :-))
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > Ken.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> >Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
list>> > are>> at >http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> >>> >You're subscribed to this list with the email
>> >>> johngrawson@hotmail.com
>> >>> >For more information, visit
>> > http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit>;>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------->
>> > -
>> >>> -
>> >>> --
>> >>> Shop 'til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping
>> >>>
>> >>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------->>
>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this>> list are
at>> >>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> >>> You're subscribed to this list with the email dan@danmorin.com
>> >>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------->>
>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this>> list are
at>> >>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> >>> You're subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>> >>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>> >>>
>> >>> ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90
>> >>> Content-Type: text/html;
>> >>> charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> >>>
>> >>> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>> >>> <HTML><HEAD>
>> >>> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>> >>> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>> >>> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2604"
>> > name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
>> >>> <BODY>
>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006><FONT face=3DArial
>> >>> color=3D#0000ff =
>> >>> size=3D2>Before=20
>> >>> making your own definition of inflation to fit your A+B
>> model, here is =
>> >>> the=20
>> >>> definition of Inflation according to my Webster=20
>> >>> Dictionary:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006><FONT face=3DArial
>> >>> color=3D#0000ff =
>> >>>
>> >>> size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006>"An increase in the volume of
> =
>> >>> money and=20
>> >>> credit relative to available goods and services resulting in a =
>> >>> continuing rise=20
>> >>> in the general price level.</SPAN><SPAN =
>> >>> class=3D703295401-13022006>"</SPAN></DIV>
>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006></SPAN> </DIV>
>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006><FONT face=3DArial
>> >>> color=3D#0000ff =
>> >>>
>> >>> size=3D2>Source: Webster Collegial Dictionary,
>> 1996.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
>> >>> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>> >>> style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
#0000ff
>> > 2px
>> >>> =
>> >>> solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>> >>> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
>> >>> face=3DTahoma=20
>> >>> size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> John G
> Rawson=20> >>> [mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B>
Sunday,
>> February 12,
>> > =
>> >>> 2006=20
>> >>> 3:02 PM<BR><B>To:</B> socialcredit@elistas.com<BR><B>Subject:</B>
>> >>> Re:=20
>> >>> [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and related=20
>> >>> issues<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
>> >>> <DIV>
>> >>> <P>First, define inflation. Invariably, it is measured as =
>> >>> "rising=20
>> >>> prices", which therefore that is my, and I think our Party's,
> => >>> definition=20
>> >>> of it. It may be caused by "too much money ...", when it is
=>> >>> "demand-pull=20
>> >>> inflation", or by other factors (e.g. rising oil prices or higher
=>> >>> interest=20
>> >>> rates) when it is "cost-push inflation".</P>
>> >>> <P>And, once again, the A+B model postulates as a corollary
>> that we =
>> >>> have=20
>> >>> cost-push inflation more than demand-pull. "There are
factors>> > in >> =
>> >>> the=20
>> >>> economy (B costs) that push the cost of goods above the level of =
>> >>> consumer=20
>> >>> purchasing power." So of course economists who deny the Douglas =
>> >>> analkysis=20
>> >>> don't understand where inflation is coming from.</P>
>> >>> <P>Regards. <FONT color=3D#339933 size=3D4>John =
>> >>> R.</FONT></P>
>> >>> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
>> >>> style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
> #a0c6e5
>> >>> 2px =
>> >>> solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20
>> >>> style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif">
>> >>> <HR color=3D#a0c6e5 SIZE=3D1>
>> >>> From: <I>"W. McGunnigle" =
>> >>> <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz></I><BR>Reply-To:=20
>> >>> <I>socialcredit@elistas.com</I><BR>To:=20
>> >>> <I><socialcredit@elistas.com></I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: =
>> >>> [socialcredit]=20
>> >>> Social Credit and Inflation--and related issues</I><BR>Date:
>> > <I>Sun, >> =
>> >>> 12 Feb=20
>> >>> 2006 23:04:53 +1300</I><BR>>Hi Kenneth<BR>> I had not
>> > really=20>> considered that question of "inflation"<BR>>as it
>> > operated in our >> =
>> >>>
>> >>> economy, but was intrigued by your comment that<BR>>socalled
=>> >>> "economic=20
>> >>> experts" have never produced a really satisfactory
>> answer<BR>>as
>> > =>> to why=20
>> >>> it happens. I find that, on reflection, all their=20
>> >>> "explanations"<BR>>appear to be waffle with little or no =
>> >>> substance to=20
>> >>> back up their comments.<BR>>They are very good at
>> manipulating =
>> >>> figures,=20
>> >>> but very short on statisdtical<BR>>analysis of those figures.
> => >>> They always=20
>> >>> have an excuse as to why their<BR>>forecasts are
>> incorrect. My =
>> >>> youngest=20
>> >>> brother has a theory that inflation has<BR>>nothing to
>> do with =
>> >>> money or=20
>> >>> product availablity, but is the direct result
>> > of<BR>>propaganda=20>> perpetrated by banking organisations who
>> > encourage =>> price<BR>>increases by=20
>> >>> simply stating that inflation is increasing and prices =
>> >>> must<BR>>increase=20
>> >>> to compensate for it. They don't have to state any reasons,=20
>> >>> but<BR>>simply create an atmosphere whereby price
>> increases are =
>> >>> accepted.=20
>> >>> Inflation,<BR>>i.e. increased costs for goods and services, =
>> >>> follows on as=20
>> >>> a self-induced,<BR>>self-fullfilling prophesy. Effectively =
>> >>> "inflation" is=20
>> >>> a mind set rather<BR>>than an economic consequence. I
>> cannot see
>> > =>> how this=20
>> >>> can be quantified, but I<BR>>can see the logic in his
>> argument. =
>> >>> It=20
>> >>> certainly explains the "stagflation"<BR>>phenomena
>> where costs =
>> >>> still=20
>> >>> increased despite falling industrial production<BR>>and =
>> >>> increasing=20
>> >>> unemployment.<BR>> Bill Mc Gunnigle<BR>>----- Original
>> > Message >> =
>> >>>
>> >>> -----<BR>>From: "Kenneth Palmerton"=20
>> >>> <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk><BR>>To:=20
>> >>> <socialcredit@elistas.com><BR>>Cc:=20
>> >>> <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk><BR>>Sent: Friday, =
>> >>> February 10,=20
>> >>> 2006 5:40 AM<BR>>Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social
>> Credit and=20
>> >>> Inflation--and related issues<BR>><BR>><BR>> > =
>> >>> In-Reply-To:=20
>> >>>
<00aa01c62844$b0b3d320$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny><BR>>
>> > >
>> >>> =
>> >>> Hi=20
>> >>> Wallace.<BR>> ><BR>> > For a very long time I
>> have been
>> > =>> of the=20
>> >>> opinion that economists do NOT<BR>> > understand
>> "inflation".
>> > =>> Even=20
>> >>> their attempts to describe it, and offer a<BR>> >
>> definition =
>> >>> leave me=20
>> >>> much less than convinced of their competence.<BR>>
>> ><BR>> =
>> >>> > They=20
>> >>> seem to offer no logical explanation of why prices
>> rise.<BR>>=20
>> >>> ><BR>> > I have sat with fellow directors of a =
>> >>> manufacturing=20
>> >>> company around our<BR>> > board room table looking at each
> => >>> other=20
>> >>> wondering if our competitors would<BR>> > let us get away
>> > with >> =
>> >>> a price=20
>> >>> rise of our products.<BR>> ><BR>> > This was not so
>> > much >> =
>> >>> an=20
>> >>> exercise in maximising our profits, as trying<BR>> > =
>> >>> desperately to=20
>> >>> cover our costs. This I believe is a common
>> scenario,<BR>> > =
>> >>> common to=20
>> >>> most companies in mature markets.<BR>> ><BR>>
>> > Coming =
>> >>> to=20
>> >>> understand later the rightness of A+B has helped, with
>> its<BR>> =
>> >>> >=20
>> >>> reference to purchasing power, which was the other thing we=20
>> >>> Directors<BR>> > agonised over. Would our customers
>> have the =
>> >>> money in=20
>> >>> their pockets when<BR>> > they chose our products
>> ?<BR>>=20
>> >>> ><BR>> > This enlightenment came too late for me and
> mine> > I >> =
>> >>> fear=20
>> >>> :-))<BR>> ><BR>> > Ken.<BR>> ><BR>>=20
>> >>> =
>> >>>
>> >
>> ><BR>><BR>><BR>>--------------------------------------
>> -------=>
>> >> ------------------------<BR>>Some=20
>> >>> introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
> are=20> >>>
>> > at<BR>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR>>You're
>> >>> =
>> >>>
>> >>> subscribed to this list with the email =
>> >>> johngrawson@hotmail.com<BR>>For=20
>> >>> more information, visit=20
>> >>> =
>> >>>
>> >
>>
>
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR
>> >>> =
>> >>> =20
>> >>> clear=3Dall>
>> >>> <HR>
>> >>> Shop =91til you drop at <A =
>> >>> href=3D"http://g.msn.com/8HMAENNZ/2743??PS=3D47575";=20
>> >>> target=3D_top>XtraMSN Shopping</A>=20
>> >>> =
>> >>>
>> >
>> <P><PRE>----------------------------------------------------------
>> -------=>
>> >> ----
>> >>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
>> list are at
>> >>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> >>> You're subscribed to this list with the email dan@danmorin.com
>> >>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>> >>> <P></P></PRE>
>> >>> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> <p><pre>----------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------
>> >>> --
>> >>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
>> list are at
>> >>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> >>> You're subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>> >>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>> >>> <p></pre><p>
>> >>>
>> >>> ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90--
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
> at> >> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> >> You're subscribed to this list with the email wmklinck@shaw.ca
>> >> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> >> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.8/260 - Release
>> Date: 2/14/2006
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
at>> > http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> > You're subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>> > For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.8/260 - Release Date:
>> 14/02/2006
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.8/260 - Release Date:
> 14/02/2006>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> You're subscribed to this list with the email dan@danmorin.com
>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> You're subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
>
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> (EST)From: "Daniel Morin" <dan@danmorin.com>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 10:45:30 -0500
> Message-ID: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHMEIBGKAB.dan@danmorin.com>
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> In-Reply-To: <005f01c6329a$3a325f90$6b23e5cf@martinh4>
> Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control
> X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
> X-UIDL: _bTE.F1J9DB.mta02.mx
>
> The only way to guarantee a "price control" is to have a "police" willing
> tokill anyone "breaking the [price control] law". It is important this
> "police" makes decisions quickly, have no mercy and does not allow any
> trialand/or jury. You must be skilled producing propaganda to find a
> "good
> cause" why this "law breaker" got executed. This is quite easy you
> control
> the media (TV, Radio, Newspaper) and people don't have access to the
> Internet. If people discover their fellows are being executed being
> becausethey sold their loaf of bread a dime higher than the price set by
> politicians, then people would disapprove, but if they are being told
> another propaganda story, you may appear as a political hero rather than
a> serial killer. Bringing those "law breakers" to court would be a bad
> idea,
> because no jury would sentence to death someone selling a loaf of bread a
> bit too high.
>
> Giving fines to those selling on the "black market" does not work. Those
> individuals would pay the fines the same a they pay bribes... and
continue> business. Putting them to jail would fill the prisons, and
people would> wonder why they are in jail. The population would start
rebelling against> tyranny. Remember, propaganda is the key, and you must
act quickly to > stay
> in power.
>
> It is also important you teach young children the doctrine of the "police
> state" and why it is important for the cause. Without brainwashing,
those> children would learn that there are better alternatives than the
"police> state".
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Martin Hattersley [mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:35 PM
>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>
>>
>> My own researches lead me to believe that, although "wage and
>> price control"
>> may limit both wages ane prices in the short run, especially if
>> backed up by
>> some patriotic salesmanship, they inevitably break down as a
>> "black market"
>> develops. At which time prices and wages rise to what they would
>> have been,
>> based on money supply factors, had the controls never been put in place.
>>
>> Martin Hattersley
>> 1970-10123-99 St.,
>> EDMONTON AB CANADA
>> Phone (780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247
>> e-mail: hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:40 AM
>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>
>>
>> > In-Reply-To: <00a801c63211$5e7fbb60$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
>> > Hi Wally.
>> >
>> > My apologies if I have provoked you into a monologue upon your
feelings>> > about the Soviet system. And though I agree with you about the
>> downside s,
>> > that provocation was NOT my intention.
>> >
>> > I wished to challenge the orthodox assumption, that is
>> universally taught
>> > in the west, that if there is an increase in the money supply, there
> HAS> > to be an increase in prices.
>> >
>> > I have pointed out Galbraith s job of price control in WW2 in the US,
>> > though to suggest it now would almost certainly give the Gurus of Wall
>> > Street apoplexy :-)))
>> >
>> > Our experience here in the UK at that time was that Keynes
>> invented a form
>> > of compulsory saving, euphemistically called "Post War
>> Credits". In which
>> > the high wages of the workers left at home, and not unproductive and
in>> > uniform, were syphoned off from immediate purchasing power.
>> >
>> > So that cast iron "law" that we are all taught is not so cast iron
> after> > all :-))
>> >
>> > Ken.
>> >
>> > -------- Original Message --------
>> >
>> > X-Envelope-From:
>> >
>> socialcredit-return-3415-kenpalmerton=cix.co.uk@elistas.comReceived:
from>> > q23.elistas.net (q23.elistas.net [216.66.20.147]) by
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>> > Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 02:22:40 -0700
>> > From: "Wallace M. Klinck" <wmklinck@shaw.ca>
>> > To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>> > Message-id: <00a801c63211$5e7fbb60$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
>> > MIME-version: 1.0
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>> > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
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>> > reply-type=originalContent-transfer-encoding: 7bit
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>> > References: <memo.703877@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>> > <001301c631a3$69b2e5c0$bad44246@cc.shawcable.net>
>> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>> > X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
>> > X-UIDL: _1cD.M5y8DB.mta02.mx
>> >
>> > Precisely, Joe.
>> >
>> > I was in Russia (and the Ukraine) around 1980 prior to the "fall" of
>> > "communism." They did not even have refrigeration. There were only
> two> > bookstores in Moscow--with nothing displayed (although McGraw-Hill
>> > textbooks were being unpacked in the back!) other than the
>> works of Marx,
>> > Lenin, and other communist authors. We flew on AeroFlot--but even our
>> > guide, Luba, was white-knuckled and admitted she didn't like
>> flying.. The
>> > food in the hotel was most unsavoury--and, although the paper
>> menu in the
>> > dining room was decidedly "gourmet", an attempt to order revealed that
>> > only about two dishes could actually be obtained--Stroganoff and
> chicken> > which latter was so tough it was impossible to cut! I
>> suggested to our
>> > guide that it must have been run over by a Russian tank! Oddly,
caviar>> > (which I can't stand) was served at a special dinner! Any
>> building in the
>> > country-side looked like a dilapidated relic from out of a previous
>> > century. Of course, I was aware that the state elite had special
>> > accommodation, imported food, special medical care, etc. The
>> distribution
>> > of income was actually much more unequal than in the West--with the
>> > existence of the Nomenklatura, a more or less secret class of
>> > millionaires. Sombre middle-aged men on aircraft pretended to
>> be reading
>> > newspapers while their eyes were trained on the back of the
>> seat in front,
>> > listening to whatever they could hear of other passengers'
>> talk. A friend
>> > of mine, raised to be sympathetic to communism, assisted in the
>> conduct of
>> > guided tours from Canada to the U.S.S.R. He was picked up and
>> > interrogated at nights by the K.G.B. and shown extensive scrapbooks
>> > listing people in Northern Alberta and asked what were their
>> politics and
>> > activities. Needless to say, my friend did an about face when
>> confronted
>> > with this priority given to "security" and "intelligence" by
>> the "supreme
>> > state." The socialist Utopia was seen to have "feet of clay."
>> >
>> > The point is, the scarcity and lack of elementary freedom
>> characteristic
>> > of the Soviet "system" represented inefficiency in delivering
abundance>> > and freedom to the consuming (or better, "working" or
"slaving")> public.> > The command economic (and political) system
allocated resources>> according
>> > to "state" priorities and was heavily skewed toward capital vs
consumer>> > goods--and was grossly inefficient from the standpoint of
delivering>> > consumer satisfaction. Money was plentiful because of the
Soviet> system> > of accountancy and controlled or administered prices, but
>> motivational and
>> > organizational problems resulted in shortages of real consumer
>> goods and
>> > services. The Soviet "economy" was more a mechanism designed
>> for "people
>> > control" than a genuine production system.
>> >
>> > Social Credit recognizes that excess and unnecessary production
>> of capital
>> > (and wasteful consumer) goods, merely to provide purchasing-power for
>> > purchase of earlier production, and so to "keep the system going", is
>> > inefficiency in terms of the Social Credit objective of a
>> > consumer-motivated economy. In both "capitalism" and "communism" an
>> > increasing and unwarranted
>> > emphasis is given to capital production--as a means of "people
> control."> > So although prices were controlled in a system of central
>> > state-administered "production" in communist U.S.S.R., this
>> was merely a
>> > masking of inflation by arbitrary means. The price to be paid in real
>> > terms was scarcity, misdirection of resources and political tyranny.
>> > Thus, according to the Social Credit concept of "inflation" as a
> measure> > or reflection of inefficiency, the U.S.S.R. was characterized
> by a very> > high level of "inflation."
>> >
>> > The inefficiency and misdirection of resources toward wasteful and
>> > destructive (e.g. war) ends in the West is a measure of the real
>> > "inflation" in this part of the world. Because the consumer is
>> charged in
>> > prices with capital depreciation but not credited with capital
>> > appreciation the consumer is robbed of the real benefits of modern
>> > technology by being allowed to access the results which flow
>> from it only
>> > by increasing work. The citizenry is, thereby, denied the increased
>> > potential leisure by which to enjoy not only the actual, but also the
>> > potential, real abundance which does, and which might, flow
>> from the ever
>> > modernizing productive system. All existing systems which
>> employ tools to
>> > produce goods and services are "capitalist." They merely vary in
> degree> > of centralized control and administration. They all are firmly
>> based upon
>> > the concept of work as the essential requisite and justification for
>> > consumption--as I have previously noted, upon the unChristian (and
>> > un-Social Credit) notion of Salvation through Works, as opposed to the
>> > concept of Salvation through Grace.
>> >
>> > Social Credit is distributist and offers a very different
dispensation,>> > where access to wealth is increasingly based upon right
by general>> > inheritance and increasingly less upon industrial,
commercial or>> > institutional "work", now essentially forced upon the
individual by the>> > necessity of survival in the context of excess
overall financial>> > costs--"payable" only by means of exponentially
expanding debt claims>> > against the future.
>> >
>> > Wally
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
>> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:15 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>> >
>> >
>> >> Who wants to live in any of those Russian apartments and have
>> a lifelong
>> >> diet of only one kind of bread?
>> >>
>> >> Joe
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>> >> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> >> Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>> >> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 12:56 PM
>> >> Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> In-Reply-To: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHIEFGGIAB.dan@danmorin.com>
>> >>> Hi Dan.
>> >>>
>> >>> If Webster is to be elevated to the rank of biblical truth, then
> maybe> >>> you
>> >>> can offer me an explanation of why it was that in the USSR
>> between 1917
>> >>> and 1970 the price of a loaf of bread, and the rent of a
>> Moscow flat did
>> >>> not increase.
>> >>>
>> >>> Despite the working population having huge amounts of un-spendable
>> > money>> in their bank accounts.
>> >>>
>> >>> This was a classic case of increasing money supply, with inadequate
>> > goods>> for sale.
>> >>>
>> >>> Why no price rise ?
>> >>>
>> >>> Ken.
>> >>>
>> >>> -------- Original Message --------
>> >>>
>> >>> X-Envelope-From:
>> >>> socialcredit-return-3390-kenpalmerton=cix.co.uk@elistas.comReceived:
>> > from>> q4.elistas.net (q4.elistas.net [216.66.20.202]) by
>> > mta02.mx.cix.co.uk>> (8.13.4/CIX/8.13.4) with SMTP id k1D3KbTF030724
>> >>> for <kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk>; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 03:20:37 GMT
>> >>> Received: (qmail 1117 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2006
>> 04:30:40 +0100
>> >>> Received: from mail.e-listas.com (66.7.164.206)
>> >>> by q4.elistas.net with EMQP; 13 Feb 2006 04:30:40 +0100
>> >>> Mailing-List: socialcredit@elistas.com
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>> >>> Received: (qmail 18418 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2006
>> 02:43:32 +0100
>> >>> Received: from unknown (HELO fep3.cogeco.net) (216.221.81.25)
>> >>> by mail.egrupos.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2006 02:43:32 +0100
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>> [24.36.197.210])
>> >>> by fep3.cogeco.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F8D019F10
>> >>> for <socialcredit@elistas.com>; Sun, 12 Feb 2006
>> 20:54:20 -0500
>> >>> (EST)From: "Daniel Morin" <dan@danmorin.com>
>> >>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> >>> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 21:01:58 -0500
>> >>> Message-ID: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHIEFGGIAB.dan@danmorin.com>
>> >>> MIME-Version: 1.0
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>> >>> X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
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>> >>> In-Reply-To: <BAY21-F27F9B18DD2F90F8C2C9A6BD040@phx.gbl>
>> >>> Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>> >>> X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
>> >>> X-UIDL: _egH.Hs_7DB.mta02.mx
>> >>>
>> >>> ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90
>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain;
>> >>> charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>> >>>
>> >>> Before making your own definition of inflation to fit your A+B
model,>> >>> here
>> >>> is the definition of Inflation according to my Webster Dictionary:
>> >>>
>> >>> "An increase in the volume of money and credit relative to available
>> >>> goods
>> >>> and services resulting in a continuing rise in the general
>> price level."
>> >>>
>> >>> Source: Webster Collegial Dictionary, 1996.
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: John G Rawson [mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com]
>> >>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:02 PM
>> >>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and
> related> >>> issues
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> First, define inflation. Invariably, it is measured as "rising
>> >>> prices",
>> >>> which therefore that is my, and I think our Party's, definition of
> it.> >>> It
>> >>> may be caused by "too much money ...", when it is "demand-pull
>> >>> inflation",
>> >>> or by other factors (e.g. rising oil prices or higher interest
rates)>> >>> when
>> >>> it is "cost-push inflation".
>> >>>
>> >>> And, once again, the A+B model postulates as a corollary
>> that we have
>> >>> cost-push inflation more than demand-pull. "There are factors in
the>> >>> economy (B costs) that push the cost of goods above the level of
>> > consumer>> purchasing power." So of course economists who deny
>> the Douglas
>> > analkysis>> don't understand where inflation is coming from.
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards. John R.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------->
>> > -
>> >>> -
>> >>> From: "W. McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
>> >>> Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>> >>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and
>> Inflation--and related
>> >>> issues
>> >>> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 23:04:53 +1300
>> >>> >Hi Kenneth
>> >>> > I had not really considered that question of "inflation"
>> >>> >as it operated in our economy, but was intrigued by your
comment>> >>> that
>> >>> >socalled "economic experts" have never produced a really
>> >>> satisfactory
>> >>> answer
>> >>> >as to why it happens. I find that, on reflection, all their
>> >>> "explanations"
>> >>> >appear to be waffle with little or no substance to back up
their>> >>> comments.
>> >>> >They are very good at manipulating figures, but very short on
>> >>> statisdtical
>> >>> >analysis of those figures. They always have an excuse as to why
>> >>> their
>> >>> >forecasts are incorrect. My youngest brother has a theory that
>> >>> inflation has
>> >>> >nothing to do with money or product availablity, but is
>> the direct
>> >>> result of
>> >>> >propaganda perpetrated by banking organisations who
>> encourage price
>> >>> >increases by simply stating that inflation is increasing
>> and prices
>> >>> must
>> >>> >increase to compensate for it. They don't have to state any
>> > reasons,>> but
>> >>> >simply create an atmosphere whereby price increases are
> accepted.> >>> Inflation,
>> >>> >i.e. increased costs for goods and services, follows on as a
>> >>> self-induced,
>> >>> >self-fullfilling prophesy. Effectively "inflation" is a mind
set>> >>> rather >than an economic consequence. I cannot see how this
can be>> >>> quantified,but I
>> >>> >can see the logic in his argument. It certainly explains the
>> >>> "stagflation"
>> >>> >phenomena where costs still increased despite falling
industrial>> >>> production
>> >>> >and increasing unemployment.
>> >>> > Bill Mc Gunnigle
>> >>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >>> >From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>> >>> >To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> >>> >Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>> >>> >Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 5:40 AM
>> >>> >Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and
>> > related>> issues
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > > In-Reply-To:
<00aa01c62844$b0b3d320$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
>> >>> > > Hi Wallace.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > For a very long time I have been of the opinion that
>> economists
>> >>> do
>> >>> NOT
>> >>> > > understand "inflation". Even their attempts to
>> describe it, and
>> >>> offer a
>> >>> > > definition leave me much less than convinced of their
>> > competence.>> > >
>> >>> > > They seem to offer no logical explanation of why prices
rise.>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > I have sat with fellow directors of a manufacturing company
>> >>> around
>> >>> our
>> >>> > > board room table looking at each other wondering if our
>> >> competitors
>> >>> would
>> >>> > > let us get away with a price rise of our products.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > This was not so much an exercise in maximising our profits,
> as> >>> trying
>> >>> > > desperately to cover our costs. This I believe is a common
>> >>> scenario, > > common to most companies in mature markets.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > Coming to understand later the rightness of A+B has
>> helped, with
>> >>> its > > reference to purchasing power, which was the other thing
> we> >>> Directors
>> >>> > > agonised over. Would our customers have the money in their
>> >>> pockets
>> >>> when
>> >>> > > they chose our products ?
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > This enlightenment came too late for me and mine I fear :-))
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > Ken.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> >Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
list>> > are>> at >http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> >>> >You're subscribed to this list with the email
>> >>> johngrawson@hotmail.com
>> >>> >For more information, visit
>> > http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit>;>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------->
>> > -
>> >>> -
>> >>> --
>> >>> Shop 'til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping
>> >>>
>> >>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------->>
>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this>> list are
at>> >>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> >>> You're subscribed to this list with the email dan@danmorin.com
>> >>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------->>
>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this>> list are
at>> >>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> >>> You're subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>> >>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>> >>>
>> >>> ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90
>> >>> Content-Type: text/html;
>> >>> charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> >>>
>> >>> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>> >>> <HTML><HEAD>
>> >>> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>> >>> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>> >>> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2604"
>> > name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
>> >>> <BODY>
>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006><FONT face=3DArial
>> >>> color=3D#0000ff =
>> >>> size=3D2>Before=20
>> >>> making your own definition of inflation to fit your A+B
>> model, here is =
>> >>> the=20
>> >>> definition of Inflation according to my Webster=20
>> >>> Dictionary:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006><FONT face=3DArial
>> >>> color=3D#0000ff =
>> >>>
>> >>> size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006>"An increase in the volume of
=
>> >>> money and=20
>> >>> credit relative to available goods and services resulting in a =
>> >>> continuing rise=20
>> >>> in the general price level.</SPAN><SPAN =
>> >>> class=3D703295401-13022006>"</SPAN></DIV>
>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006></SPAN> </DIV>
>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006><FONT face=3DArial
>> >>> color=3D#0000ff =
>> >>>
>> >>> size=3D2>Source: Webster Collegial Dictionary,
>> 1996.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
>> >>> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>> >>> style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
#0000ff
>> > 2px
>> >>> =
>> >>> solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>> >>> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
>> >>> face=3DTahoma=20
>> >>> size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> John G
> Rawson=20> >>> [mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B>
Sunday,
>> February 12,
>> > =
>> >>> 2006=20
>> >>> 3:02 PM<BR><B>To:</B> socialcredit@elistas.com<BR><B>Subject:</B>
>> >>> Re:=20
>> >>> [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and related=20
>> >>> issues<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
>> >>> <DIV>
>> >>> <P>First, define inflation. Invariably, it is measured as =
>> >>> "rising=20
>> >>> prices", which therefore that is my, and I think our Party's,
> => >>> definition=20
>> >>> of it. It may be caused by "too much money ...", when it is
=>> >>> "demand-pull=20
>> >>> inflation", or by other factors (e.g. rising oil prices or higher
=>> >>> interest=20
>> >>> rates) when it is "cost-push inflation".</P>
>> >>> <P>And, once again, the A+B model postulates as a corollary
>> that we =
>> >>> have=20
>> >>> cost-push inflation more than demand-pull. "There are
factors>> > in >> =
>> >>> the=20
>> >>> economy (B costs) that push the cost of goods above the level of =
>> >>> consumer=20
>> >>> purchasing power." So of course economists who deny the Douglas =
>> >>> analkysis=20
>> >>> don't understand where inflation is coming from.</P>
>> >>> <P>Regards. <FONT color=3D#339933 size=3D4>John =
>> >>> R.</FONT></P>
>> >>> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
>> >>> style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
#a0c6e5
>> >>> 2px =
>> >>> solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20
>> >>> style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif">
>> >>> <HR color=3D#a0c6e5 SIZE=3D1>
>> >>> From: <I>"W. McGunnigle" =
>> >>> <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz></I><BR>Reply-To:=20
>> >>> <I>socialcredit@elistas.com</I><BR>To:=20
>> >>> <I><socialcredit@elistas.com></I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: =
>> >>> [socialcredit]=20
>> >>> Social Credit and Inflation--and related issues</I><BR>Date:
>> > <I>Sun, >> =
>> >>> 12 Feb=20
>> >>> 2006 23:04:53 +1300</I><BR>>Hi Kenneth<BR>> I had not
>> > really=20>> considered that question of "inflation"<BR>>as it
>> > operated in our >> =
>> >>>
>> >>> economy, but was intrigued by your comment that<BR>>socalled
=>> >>> "economic=20
>> >>> experts" have never produced a really satisfactory
>> answer<BR>>as
>> > =>> to why=20
>> >>> it happens. I find that, on reflection, all their=20
>> >>> "explanations"<BR>>appear to be waffle with little or no =
>> >>> substance to=20
>> >>> back up their comments.<BR>>They are very good at
>> manipulating =
>> >>> figures,=20
>> >>> but very short on statisdtical<BR>>analysis of those figures.
> => >>> They always=20
>> >>> have an excuse as to why their<BR>>forecasts are
>> incorrect. My =
>> >>> youngest=20
>> >>> brother has a theory that inflation has<BR>>nothing to
>> do with =
>> >>> money or=20
>> >>> product availablity, but is the direct result
>> > of<BR>>propaganda=20>> perpetrated by banking organisations who
>> > encourage =>> price<BR>>in |
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