eListas - My Lists: socialcredit: Messages

In NZ we had a period around 1980's when the volume of money as a percentage of GDP was reduced drastically, ("velocity" just about doubled) and inflation went ahead strongly. But interest rates were high.

Regards. John R.

From: "Martin Hattersley" <hattersleyjm@interbaun.com>
Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 20:19:11 -0700
>Ken - Yes, I think it is true. I did a great deal of comparison of
>the money supply statistics, the consumer price index, and the
>Sector Accounts that describe flows of value between different parts
>of the economy, for Canada in the period 1926 to 1983. It was quite
>plain that cost of living increases were connected with both
>increases in the money supply, modified by whether these increases
>went into capital or consumer goods.
>
>There were two period of "price control". One in World War II, and
>the other in the 1970's under Trudeau. In each case, the Consumer
>Price Index behaved exactly as I have described.
>
>From my recollections of post-war England, the same game of "catch
>up" was played there after the War in the 1945-1955 period.
>
>By "price control", I am thinking of maintaining a stable price
>level by legislation rather than by monetary means. So examples of
>successful monetary experiments that kept the price level stable
>without such legislation are not really on point.
>
>Martin Hattersley
>1970-10123-99 St.,
>EDMONTON AB CANADA
>Phone (780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247
>e-mail: hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Palmerton"
><kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:43 AM
>Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>
>
>>In-Reply-To: <005f01c6329a$3a325f90$6b23e5cf@martinh4>
>>Hi Martin.
>>
>>You are right that this is the orthodox wisdom peddled by the
>>beneficiaries of the status quo, they would hardly say otherwise.
>>
>>But is it true ?
>>
>>Although I do not exactly know how we would prove this, one way or
>>the
>>other, but how about a bit of brainstorming on the possibility ?
>>
>>If we mean permanent control, how about the experience of ancient
>>Egypt ?
>>with its reliance upon a wheat based currency. Surviving for
>>something
>>like Three Thousand years.
>>
>>If we will accept shorter term control, how about the WW2
>>experience of
>>the UK ?The weekly meat ration was not declared by weight, but by
>>price.
>>That weekly allowance being maintained for six years.
>>
>>Though a black market in meat certainly existed, to my knowledge,
>>it was
>>NOT widespread. And the people themselves were the great whistle
>>blowers
>>where it was found to exist :-)
>>
>>My point is that rigid ideas do not survive careful examination.
>>
>>Ken.
>>
>>-------- Original Message --------
>>
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>>Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:42:20 -0700Message-ID:
>><005f01c6329a$3a325f90$6b23e5cf@martinh4>From: "Martin Hattersley"
>><hattersleyjm@interbaun.com>To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>References: <memo.792548@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:35:06 -0700
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>>reply-type=originalSubject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of
>>inflation
>>X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
>>X-UIDL: _oIB.LWD9DB.mta02.mx
>>
>>My own researches lead me to believe that, although "wage and price
>>control" may limit both wages ane prices in the short run,
>>especially if
>>backed up by some patriotic salesmanship, they inevitably break
>>down as a
>>"black market" develops. At which time prices and wages rise to
>>what they
>>would have been, based on money supply factors, had the controls
>>never
>>been put in place.
>>
>>Martin Hattersley
>>1970-10123-99 St.,
>>EDMONTON AB CANADA
>>Phone (780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247
>>e-mail: hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Palmerton"
>><kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:40 AM
>>Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>
>>
>>>In-Reply-To: <00a801c63211$5e7fbb60$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
>>>Hi Wally.
>>>
>>>My apologies if I have provoked you into a monologue upon your
>>>feelings
>>>about the Soviet system. And though I agree with you about the
>>>downside
>>s,> that provocation was NOT my intention.
>>>
>>>I wished to challenge the orthodox assumption, that is universally
>>>taught
>>>in the west, that if there is an increase in the money supply,
>>>there HAS
>>>to be an increase in prices.
>>>
>>>I have pointed out Galbraith s job of price control in WW2 in the
>>>US,
>>>though to suggest it now would almost certainly give the Gurus of
>>>Wall
>>>Street apoplexy :-)))
>>>
>>>Our experience here in the UK at that time was that Keynes
>>>invented a
>>form> of compulsory saving, euphemistically called "Post War
>>Credits". In
>>which> the high wages of the workers left at home, and not
>>unproductive
>>and in> uniform, were syphoned off from immediate purchasing power.
>>>
>>>So that cast iron "law" that we are all taught is not so cast iron
>>>after
>>>all :-))
>>>
>>>Ken.
>>>
>>>-------- Original Message --------
>>>
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>>>15 Feb 2006 02:22:35 -0700 (MST)
>>>Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 02:22:40 -0700
>>>From: "Wallace M. Klinck" <wmklinck@shaw.ca>
>>>To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>>>Message-id: <00a801c63211$5e7fbb60$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
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>>>References: <memo.703877@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>><001301c631a3$69b2e5c0$bad44246@cc.shawcable.net>
>>>Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>>X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
>>>X-UIDL: _1cD.M5y8DB.mta02.mx
>>>
>>>Precisely, Joe.
>>>
>>>I was in Russia (and the Ukraine) around 1980 prior to the "fall"
>>>of
>>>"communism." They did not even have refrigeration. There were
>>>only two
>>>bookstores in Moscow--with nothing displayed (although McGraw-Hill
>>>textbooks were being unpacked in the back!) other than the works
>>>of Marx,
>>>Lenin, and other communist authors. We flew on AeroFlot--but even
>>>our
>>>guide, Luba, was white-knuckled and admitted she didn't like
>>>flying..
>>The> food in the hotel was most unsavoury--and, although the paper
>>menu in
>>the> dining room was decidedly "gourmet", an attempt to order
>>revealed that
>>>only about two dishes could actually be obtained--Stroganoff and
>>>chicken
>>>which latter was so tough it was impossible to cut! I suggested
>>>to our
>>>guide that it must have been run over by a Russian tank! Oddly,
>>>caviar
>>>(which I can't stand) was served at a special dinner! Any
>>>building in
>>the> country-side looked like a dilapidated relic from out of a
>>previous
>>>century. Of course, I was aware that the state elite had special
>>>accommodation, imported food, special medical care, etc. The
>>distribution> of income was actually much more unequal than in the
>>West--with the> existence of the Nomenklatura, a more or less
>>secret class
>>of> millionaires. Sombre middle-aged men on aircraft pretended to
>>be
>>reading> newspapers while their eyes were trained on the back of
>>the seat
>>in front,> listening to whatever they could hear of other
>>passengers'
>>talk. A friend> of mine, raised to be sympathetic to communism,
>>assisted
>>in the conduct of> guided tours from Canada to the U.S.S.R. He was
>>picked
>>up and> interrogated at nights by the K.G.B. and shown extensive
>>scrapbooks
>>>listing people in Northern Alberta and asked what were their
>>>politics and
>>>activities. Needless to say, my friend did an about face when
>>>confronted
>>>with this priority given to "security" and "intelligence" by the
>>>"supreme
>>>state." The socialist Utopia was seen to have "feet of clay."
>>>
>>>The point is, the scarcity and lack of elementary freedom
>>>characteristic
>>>of the Soviet "system" represented inefficiency in delivering
>>>abundance
>>>and freedom to the consuming (or better, "working" or "slaving")
>>>public.
>>>The command economic (and political) system allocated resources
>>>according
>>>to "state" priorities and was heavily skewed toward capital vs
>>>consumer
>>>goods--and was grossly inefficient from the standpoint of
>>>delivering
>>>consumer satisfaction. Money was plentiful because of the Soviet
>>>system
>>>of accountancy and controlled or administered prices, but
>>>motivational
>>and> organizational problems resulted in shortages of real
>>consumer goods
>>and> services. The Soviet "economy" was more a mechanism designed
>>for
>>"people> control" than a genuine production system.
>>>
>>>Social Credit recognizes that excess and unnecessary production of
>>capital> (and wasteful consumer) goods, merely to provide
>>purchasing-power
>>for> purchase of earlier production, and so to "keep the system
>>going", is
>>>inefficiency in terms of the Social Credit objective of a
>>>consumer-motivated economy. In both "capitalism" and "communism"
>>>an
>>>increasing and unwarranted
>>>emphasis is given to capital production--as a means of "people
>>>control."
>>>So although prices were controlled in a system of central
>>>state-administered "production" in communist U.S.S.R., this was
>>>merely a
>>>masking of inflation by arbitrary means. The price to be paid in
>>>real
>>>terms was scarcity, misdirection of resources and political
>>>tyranny.
>>>Thus, according to the Social Credit concept of "inflation" as a
>>>measure
>>>or reflection of inefficiency, the U.S.S.R. was characterized by a
>>>very
>>>high level of "inflation."
>>>
>>>The inefficiency and misdirection of resources toward wasteful and
>>>destructive (e.g. war) ends in the West is a measure of the real
>>>"inflation" in this part of the world. Because the consumer is
>>>charged
>>in> prices with capital depreciation but not credited with capital
>>>appreciation the consumer is robbed of the real benefits of modern
>>>technology by being allowed to access the results which flow from
>>>it only
>>>by increasing work. The citizenry is, thereby, denied the
>>>increased
>>>potential leisure by which to enjoy not only the actual, but also
>>>the
>>>potential, real abundance which does, and which might, flow from
>>>the ever
>>>modernizing productive system. All existing systems which employ
>>>tools to
>>>produce goods and services are "capitalist." They merely vary in
>>>degree
>>>of centralized control and administration. They all are firmly
>>>based
>>upon> the concept of work as the essential requisite and
>>justification for
>>>consumption--as I have previously noted, upon the unChristian (and
>>>un-Social Credit) notion of Salvation through Works, as opposed to
>>>the
>>>concept of Salvation through Grace.
>>>
>>>Social Credit is distributist and offers a very different
>>>dispensation,
>>>where access to wealth is increasingly based upon right by general
>>>inheritance and increasingly less upon industrial, commercial or
>>>institutional "work", now essentially forced upon the individual
>>>by the
>>>necessity of survival in the context of excess overall financial
>>>costs--"payable" only by means of exponentially expanding debt
>>>claims
>>>against the future.
>>>
>>>Wally
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Thomson"
>>><thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
>>>To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:15 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>>
>>>
>>>>Who wants to live in any of those Russian apartments and have a
>>lifelong>> diet of only one kind of bread?
>>>>
>>>>Joe
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>>>To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>>>Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>>>Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 12:56 PM
>>>>Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In-Reply-To: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHIEFGGIAB.dan@danmorin.com>
>>>>>Hi Dan.
>>>>>
>>>>>If Webster is to be elevated to the rank of biblical truth, then
>>>>>maybe
>>>>>you
>>>>>can offer me an explanation of why it was that in the USSR
>>>>>between 1917
>>>>>and 1970 the price of a loaf of bread, and the rent of a Moscow
>>>>>flat
>>did>>> not increase.
>>>>>
>>>>>Despite the working population having huge amounts of
>>>>>un-spendable
>>>money>> in their bank accounts.
>>>>>
>>>>>This was a classic case of increasing money supply, with
>>>>>inadequate
>>>goods>> for sale.
>>>>>
>>>>>Why no price rise ?
>>>>>
>>>>>Ken.
>>>>>
>>>>>-------- Original Message --------
>>>>>
>>>>>X-Envelope-From:
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>>>from>> q4.elistas.net (q4.elistas.net [216.66.20.202]) by
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>>>>> for <kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk>; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 03:20:37
>>>>>GMT
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>>>>>Mailing-List: socialcredit@elistas.com
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>>>>> for <socialcredit@elistas.com>; Sun, 12 Feb 2006
>>>>>20:54:20 -0500
>>>>>(EST)From: "Daniel Morin" <dan@danmorin.com>
>>>>>To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>>>>Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 21:01:58 -0500
>>>>>Message-ID: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHIEFGGIAB.dan@danmorin.com>
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>>>>>In-Reply-To: <BAY21-F27F9B18DD2F90F8C2C9A6BD040@phx.gbl>
>>>>>Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>>>>X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
>>>>>X-UIDL: _egH.Hs_7DB.mta02.mx
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>Before making your own definition of inflation to fit your A+B
>>>>>model,
>>>>>here
>>>>>is the definition of Inflation according to my Webster
>>>>>Dictionary:
>>>>>
>>>>>"An increase in the volume of money and credit relative to
>>>>>available
>>>>>goods
>>>>>and services resulting in a continuing rise in the general price
>>level.">>>
>>>>>Source: Webster Collegial Dictionary, 1996.
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: John G Rawson [mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:02 PM
>>>>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and
>>>>>related
>>>>>issues
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> First, define inflation. Invariably, it is measured as
>>>>>"rising
>>>>>prices",
>>>>>which therefore that is my, and I think our Party's, definition
>>>>>of it.
>>>>>It
>>>>>may be caused by "too much money ...", when it is "demand-pull
>>>>>inflation",
>>>>>or by other factors (e.g. rising oil prices or higher interest
>>>>>rates)
>>>>>when
>>>>>it is "cost-push inflation".
>>>>>
>>>>> And, once again, the A+B model postulates as a corollary that
>>>>>we have
>>>>>cost-push inflation more than demand-pull. "There are factors
>>>>>in the
>>>>>economy (B costs) that push the cost of goods above the level of
>>>consumer>> purchasing power." So of course economists who deny the
>>Douglas> analkysis>> don't understand where inflation is coming
>>from.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards. John R.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------->
>>>-
>>>>>-
>>>>> From: "W. McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
>>>>> Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>>>>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and
>>>>>Inflation--and
>>related>>> issues
>>>>> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 23:04:53 +1300
>>>>> >Hi Kenneth
>>>>> > I had not really considered that question of "inflation"
>>>>> >as it operated in our economy, but was intrigued by your
>>>>>comment
>>>>>that
>>>>> >socalled "economic experts" have never produced a really
>>>>>satisfactory
>>>>>answer
>>>>> >as to why it happens. I find that, on reflection, all
>>>>>their
>>>>>"explanations"
>>>>> >appear to be waffle with little or no substance to back up
>>>>>their
>>>>>comments.
>>>>> >They are very good at manipulating figures, but very short
>>>>>on
>>>>>statisdtical
>>>>> >analysis of those figures. They always have an excuse as
>>>>>to why
>>>>>their
>>>>> >forecasts are incorrect. My youngest brother has a theory
>>>>>that
>>>>>inflation has
>>>>> >nothing to do with money or product availablity, but is
>>>>>the direct
>>>>>result of
>>>>> >propaganda perpetrated by banking organisations who
>>>>>encourage
>>price>>> >increases by simply stating that inflation is
>>increasing and
>>prices>>> must
>>>>> >increase to compensate for it. They don't have to state
>>>>>any
>>>reasons,>> but
>>>>> >simply create an atmosphere whereby price increases are
>>>>>accepted.
>>>>>Inflation,
>>>>> >i.e. increased costs for goods and services, follows on as
>>>>>a
>>>>>self-induced,
>>>>> >self-fullfilling prophesy. Effectively "inflation" is a
>>>>>mind set
>>>>>rather >than an economic consequence. I cannot see how this
>>>>>can be
>>>>>quantified,but I
>>>>> >can see the logic in his argument. It certainly explains
>>>>>the
>>>>>"stagflation"
>>>>> >phenomena where costs still increased despite falling
>>>>>industrial
>>>>>production
>>>>> >and increasing unemployment.
>>>>> > Bill Mc Gunnigle
>>>>> >----- Original Message -----
>>>>> >From: "Kenneth Palmerton"
>>>>><kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>>>> >To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>>>> >Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>>>> >Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 5:40 AM
>>>>> >Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and
>>>>>Inflation--and
>>>related>> issues
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > > In-Reply-To:
>>>>><00aa01c62844$b0b3d320$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
>>>>> > > Hi Wallace.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > For a very long time I have been of the opinion that
>>>>>economists
>>>>>do
>>>>>NOT
>>>>> > > understand "inflation". Even their attempts to describe
>>>>>it, and
>>>>>offer a
>>>>> > > definition leave me much less than convinced of their
>>>competence.>> > >
>>>>> > > They seem to offer no logical explanation of why prices
>>>>>rise.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > I have sat with fellow directors of a manufacturing
>>>>>company
>>>>>around
>>>>>our
>>>>> > > board room table looking at each other wondering if our
>>>>competitors
>>>>>would
>>>>> > > let us get away with a price rise of our products.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > This was not so much an exercise in maximising our
>>>>>profits, as
>>>>>trying
>>>>> > > desperately to cover our costs. This I believe is a
>>>>>common
>>>>>scenario, > > common to most companies in mature markets.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Coming to understand later the rightness of A+B has
>>>>>helped,
>>with>>> its > > reference to purchasing power, which was the
>>other
>>thing we>>> Directors
>>>>> > > agonised over. Would our customers have the money in
>>>>>their
>>>>>pockets
>>>>>when
>>>>> > > they chose our products ?
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > This enlightenment came too late for me and mine I fear
>>>>>:-))
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Ken.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> >Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of
>>>>>this list
>>>are>> at >http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>>> >You're subscribed to this list with the email
>>>>>johngrawson@hotmail.com
>>>>> >For more information, visit
>>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------->
>>>-
>>>>>-
>>>>>--
>>>>> Shop 'til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping
>>>>>
>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>>>>are at
>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>>>You're subscribed to this list with the email dan@danmorin.com
>>>>>For more information, visit
>>>>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>>>>are at
>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>>>You're subscribed to this list with the email
>>>>>kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>>>>>For more information, visit
>>>>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>>>
>>>>>------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90
>>>>>Content-Type: text/html;
>>>>> charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>>>>
>>>>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>>>><HTML><HEAD>
>>>>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>>>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>>>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2604"
>>>name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
>>>>><BODY>
>>>>><DIV>>>>>color=3D#0000ff =
>>>>>size=3D2>Before=20
>>>>>making your own definition of inflation to fit your A+B model,
>>>>>here is
>>=>>> the=20
>>>>>definition of Inflation according to my Webster=20
>>>>>Dictionary:</DIV>
>>>>><DIV>>>>>color=3D#0000ff =
>>>>>
>>>>>size=3D2> </DIV>
>>>>><DIV>"An increase in the volume
>>>>>of =
>>>>>money and=20
>>>>>credit relative to available goods and services resulting in a =
>>>>>continuing rise=20
>>>>>in the general price level.>>>>class=3D703295401-13022006>"</DIV>
>>>>><DIV> </DIV>
>>>>><DIV>>>>>color=3D#0000ff =
>>>>>
>>>>>size=3D2>Source: Webster Collegial Dictionary,
>>1996.</DIV>>>> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>>>>>style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
>>>>>#0000ff
>>>2px
>>>>>=
>>>>>solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>>>> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr
>>>>>align=3Dleft>>>>>face=3DTahoma=20
>>>>> size=3D2>-----Original Message----- From: John G
>>>>>Rawson=20
>>>>> [mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday,
>>>>>February 12,
>>>=
>>>>>2006=20
>>>>> 3:02 PM To:
>>>>>socialcredit@elistas.com Subject:
>>>>>Re:=20
>>>>> [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and related=20
>>>>> issues </DIV>
>>>>> <DIV>
>>>>> First, define inflation.  Invariably, it is measured
>>>>>as =
>>>>>"rising=20
>>>>> prices", which therefore that is my, and I think our
>>>>>Party's, =
>>>>>definition=20
>>>>> of it.  It may be caused by "too much money ...", when
>>>>>it is =
>>>>>"demand-pull=20
>>>>> inflation", or by other factors (e.g. rising oil prices or
>>>>>higher =
>>>>>interest=20
>>>>> rates) when it is "cost-push inflation".
>>>>> And, once again, the A+B model postulates as a corollary
>>>>>that we =
>>>>>have=20
>>>>> cost-push inflation more than demand-pull.  "There are
>>>>>factors
>>>in >> =
>>>>>the=20
>>>>> economy (B costs) that push the cost of goods above the level
>>>>>of =
>>>>>consumer=20
>>>>> purchasing power." So of course economists who deny the
>>>>>Douglas =
>>>>>analkysis=20
>>>>> don't understand where inflation is coming from.
>>>>> Regards.   John =
>>>>>R.
>>>>> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
>>>>> style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
>>>>>#a0c6e5
>>>>>2px =
>>>>>solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20
>>>>> style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif">
>>>>> <HR color=3D#a0c6e5 SIZE=3D1>
>>>>> From: "W. McGunnigle" =
>>>>><wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz> Reply-To:=20
>>>>> socialcredit@elistas.com To:=20
>>>>> <socialcredit@elistas.com> Subject: Re:
>>>>>=
>>>>>[socialcredit]=20
>>>>> Social Credit and Inflation--and related
>>>>>issues Date:
>>>Sun, >> =
>>>>>12 Feb=20
>>>>> 2006 23:04:53 +1300 >Hi Kenneth > I had not
>>>really=20>> considered that question of "inflation" >as
>>>it
>>>operated in our >> =
>>>>>
>>>>> economy, but was intrigued by your comment
>>>>>that >socalled =
>>>>>"economic=20
>>>>> experts" have never produced a really satisfactory
>>>>>answer >as
>>>=>> to why=20
>>>>> it happens. I find that, on reflection, all their=20
>>>>> "explanations" >appear to be waffle with little or no
>>>>>=
>>>>>substance to=20
>>>>> back up their comments. >They are very good at
>>>>>manipulating =
>>>>>figures,=20
>>>>> but very short on statisdtical >analysis of those
>>>>>figures. =
>>>>>They always=20
>>>>> have an excuse as to why their >forecasts are
>>>>>incorrect. My =
>>>>>youngest=20
>>>>> brother has a theory that inflation has >nothing to
>>>>>do with =
>>>>>money or=20
>>>>> product availablity, but is the direct result
>>>of >propaganda=20>> perpetrated by banking organisations
>>>who
>>>encourage =>> price >increases by=20
>>>>> simply stating that inflation is increasing and prices =
>>>>>must >increase=20
>>>>> to compensate for it. They don't have to state any
>>>>>reasons,=20
>>>>> but >simply create an atmosphere whereby price
>>>>>increases are
>>=>>> accepted.=20
>>>>> Inflation, >i.e. increased costs for goods and
>>>>>services, =
>>>>>follows on as=20
>>>>> a self-induced, >self-fullfilling prophesy.
>>>>>Effectively =
>>>>>"inflation" is=20
>>>>> a mind set rather >than an economic consequence. I
>>>>>cannot see
>>>=>> how this=20
>>>>> can be quantified, but I >can see the logic in his
>>>>>argument.
>>=>>> It=20
>>>>> certainly explains the "stagflation" >phenomena where
>>>>>costs =
>>>>>still=20
>>>>> increased despite falling industrial production >and
>>>>>=
>>>>>increasing=20
>>>>> unemployment. > Bill Mc Gunnigle >-----
>>>>>Original
>>>Message >> =
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- >From: "Kenneth Palmerton"=20
>>>>> <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk> >To:=20
>>>>> <socialcredit@elistas.com> >Cc:=20
>>>>> <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk> >Sent:
>>>>>Friday, =
>>>>>February 10,=20
>>>>> 2006 5:40 AM >Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social
>>>>>Credit
>>and=20>>> Inflation--and related issues > > >
>>> =
>>>>>In-Reply-To:=20
>>>>>
>>>>><00aa01c62844$b0b3d320$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny> >
>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>Hi=20
>>>>> Wallace. > > > > For a very long time I
>>>>>have been
>>>=>> of the=20
>>>>> opinion that economists do NOT > > understand
>>>>>"inflation".
>>>=>> Even=20
>>>>> their attempts to describe it, and offer a > >
>>>>>definition
>>=>>> leave me=20
>>>>> much less than convinced of their competence. >
>>>>>> >
>>=>>> > They=20
>>>>> seem to offer no logical explanation of why prices
>>>>>rise. >=20
>>>>> > > > I have sat with fellow directors of a =
>>>>>manufacturing=20
>>>>> company around our > > board room table looking at
>>>>>each =
>>>>>other=20
>>>>> wondering if our competitors would > > let us get
>>>>>away
>>>with >> =
>>>>>a price=20
>>>>> rise of our products. > > > > This was
>>>>>not so
>>>much >> =
>>>>>an=20
>>>>> exercise in maximising our profits, as trying > >
>>>>>=
>>>>>desperately to=20
>>>>> cover our costs. This I believe is a common
>>>>>scenario, > >
>>=>>> common to=20
>>>>> most companies in mature markets. > > > >
>>>>>Coming
>>=>>> to=20
>>>>> understand later the rightness of A+B has helped, with
>>>>>its >
>>=>>> >=20
>>>>> reference to purchasing power, which was the other thing
>>>>>we=20
>>>>> Directors > > agonised over. Would our customers
>>>>>have the
>>=>>> money in=20
>>>>> their pockets when > > they chose our products
>>? >=20>>> > > > This enlightenment came too
>>late for
>>me and mine> I >> =
>>>>>fear=20
>>>>> :-)) > > > > Ken. > > >=20
>>>>> =
>>>>>
>>>
>>> > > >---------------------------------------------=>
>>>>------------------------ >Some=20
>>>>> introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>>>>are=20
>>>>>
>>>at >http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium >You're
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>> subscribed to this list with the email =
>>>>>johngrawson@hotmail.com >For=20
>>>>> more information, visit=20
>>>>> =
>>>>>
>>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> >>>>=
>>>>>=20
>>>>> clear=3Dall>
>>>>> <HR>
>>>>> Shop =91til you drop at <A =
>>>>>href=3D"http://g.msn.com/8HMAENNZ/2743??PS=3D47575"=20
>>>>> target=3D_top>XtraMSN Shopping</A>=20
>>>>> =
>>>>>
>>>
>><PRE>-----------------------------------------------------------------=>
>>>>----
>>>>>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>>>>are at
>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>>>You're subscribed to this list with the email dan@danmorin.com
>>>>>For more information, visit
>>>>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>>></PRE>
>>>>> </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>><pre>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>--
>>>>>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>>>>are at
>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>>>You're subscribed to this list with the email
>>>>>kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>>>>>For more information, visit
>>>>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>>></pre>
>>>>>
>>>>>------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90--
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>>>are at
>>>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>>You're subscribed to this list with the email wmklinck@shaw.ca
>>>>For more information, visit
>>>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.8/260 - Release Date:
>>2/14/2006>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>>are at
>>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>You're subscribed to this list with the email
>>>kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>>>For more information, visit
>>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.8/260 - Release Date:
>>14/02/2006>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
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>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.8/260 - Release Date:
>>14/02/2006
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>are at
>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>You're subscribed to this list with the email
>>kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>>For more information, visit
>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
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>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.8/260 - Release Date:
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>>
>
>
>
>--
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>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.8/260 - Release Date:
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>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
>at
>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>You're subscribed to this list with the email
>johngrawson@hotmail.com
>For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit

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