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Message 3439
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| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation | | Date: | Saturday, February 18, 2006 16:47:28 (+1300) | | From: | W. McGunnigle <wmcgunn @.........nz>
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Hi Joe
Thanks for those observations. To a certain extent what you say
is true, but, coming from the home of the industrial revolution, the North
of England, my experiences together with those of my father and grandfather
were of a constant battle to maintain a living wage. We accomplished this by
means of the Trade Union movement, but employers in the North were HARD men
and never paid you a penny if they could get away with a halfpenny. The vast
bulk of the people "employed" in the "new factories" and coalmines were
actually subsistence farmers displaced from their tenant farms and small
holdings by rapacious landowners who wanted to "enclose" the land to raise
sheep. Those people had little choice in the matter. They either moved to
the "new" cities hoping to find enough work to buy food for their families
or starved. Those cities consisted of housing quite literally flung up
without proper a sanitation or safety features. I lived in some of that
housing although, by the time that terraced house was built, basic
sanitation such as outside toilets, fresh clean water, and mandatory front
and back doors had become law. Most of those people were far better off in
their old habitats and would tell you so. Thanks for your feedback Joe
regards Bill McGunnigle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 4:58 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
> Hello Bill (McGunnigle),
>
> When you think about it, I believe what you've observed has pretty well
been
> with us since the start of the Industrial Revolution. It was just more
> apparent in 'wartime'.
>
> The words of the old song, "How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm after
> they've seen Paree?", come to mind. While there is certainly some
> attraction from the ''bright lights" of Paris, there'd probably be less
> enjoyment in living there, or its urban equivalents anywhere, than ''down
on
> the farm." Unless one can obtain the 'money' needed to begin and maintain
> their personal "pursuit of happiness'' in such a place.
>
> And so we have another 'perversion'. One of those flocking to where the
> 'wage' is the 'highest', but where the 'cost of living' is always
'higher'.
> Are those that thus 'flock' really 'better-off'? I think that would be a
> difficult question to answer. Probably there's some advantage, but for
most
> I think it usually falls far short of expectations. And how do you keep
it
> all going 'financially' once it's past the point where it should be kept
> going in any real sense 'productively'? We're back to A+B.
>
> Joe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "W. McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 4:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>
>
> > Hi Joe
> > Your comment about labour shortages in certain "protected"
> > industries was very revealing. I was unaware that it was so critical
> during
> > the late stages of WWII particularly in the timber industry of the
Pacific
> > NW of continental USA, and BC in Canada. It emphasises the point that
when
> > there is full employment even government regulations cannot make people
> stay
> > in poorly paid jobs. Do you know of any other times when this situation
> has
> > arisen apart from those mentioned in your observation?
> > Bill McGunnigle
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 5:02 AM
> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
> >
> >
> > > I think this is borne out by what happened in both Canada and the USA
in
> > the
> > > Second World War. While many 'consumer goods' weren't being made, and
> > there
> > > was 'rationing' that largely controlled the overall supply available
of
> > what
> > > was being made, the 'market' demand for 'labour' couldn't anywhere
near
> be
> > > as effecively controlled.
> > >
> > > In regards to under-the-table ways employed by many firms to try to
pay
> > > their crews competitive enough wages to keep them on the job in the
face
> > of
> > > government imposed 'wage' controls, there most certainly was a 'black
> > > market' of sorts operating. The problem for firms then was lots of
> market
> > > (the entire 'war machine'), but a definite shortage of labour, and
> > > particularly skilled or experienced labour to keep producing the
product
> > and
> > > fill the demand. .
> > >
> > > This was a very big problem in both the BC and US Pacific Northwest
> lumber
> > > industries. The US had considerable difficulties keeping woods
workers
> > from
> > > taking higher-paid, closer-to-'civilization', jobs in the burgeoning
> > > shipyards that sprang up in various large West Coast urban centres.
In
> > BC,
> > > despite the exemption of forest industry workers from military
> > > 'conscription', and the release from active duty of many who had
joined
> > up
> > > early in the war, retaining experienced crews was such an enormous
> problem
> > > that some operators, late in the war, encouraged their crews to
> 'Unionize'
> > > and strike for the higher pay they were quite willing to pay them, if
> > only
> > > the 'government' would allow them to.
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Martin Hattersley" <hattersleyjm@interbaun.com>
> > > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:35 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
> > >
> > >
> > > > My own researches lead me to believe that, although "wage and price
> > > control"
> > > > may limit both wages ane prices in the short run, especially if
backed
> > up
> > > by
> > > > some patriotic salesmanship, they inevitably break down as a "black
> > > market"
> > > > develops. At which time prices and wages rise to what they would
have
> > > been,
> > > > based on money supply factors, had the controls never been put in
> place.
> > > >
> > > > Martin Hattersley
> > > > 1970-10123-99 St.,
> > > > EDMONTON AB CANADA
> > > > Phone (780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247
> > > > e-mail: hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> > > > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > > > Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:40 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > In-Reply-To: <00a801c63211$5e7fbb60$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
> > > > > Hi Wally.
> > > > >
> > > > > My apologies if I have provoked you into a monologue upon your
> > feelings
> > > > > about the Soviet system. And though I agree with you about the
> > downside
> > > s,
> > > > > that provocation was NOT my intention.
> > > > >
> > > > > I wished to challenge the orthodox assumption, that is universally
> > > taught
> > > > > in the west, that if there is an increase in the money supply,
there
> > HAS
> > > > > to be an increase in prices.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have pointed out Galbraith s job of price control in WW2 in the
> US,
> > > > > though to suggest it now would almost certainly give the Gurus of
> Wall
> > > > > Street apoplexy :-)))
> > > > >
> > > > > Our experience here in the UK at that time was that Keynes
invented
> a
> > > form
> > > > > of compulsory saving, euphemistically called "Post War Credits".
In
> > > which
> > > > > the high wages of the workers left at home, and not unproductive
and
> > in
> > > > > uniform, were syphoned off from immediate purchasing power.
> > > > >
> > > > > So that cast iron "law" that we are all taught is not so cast iron
> > after
> > > > > all :-))
> > > > >
> > > > > Ken.
> > > > >
> > > > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > > >
> > > > > X-Envelope-From:
> > > > >
socialcredit-return-3415-kenpalmerton=cix.co.uk@elistas.comReceived:
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> > > > > Wed,
> > > > > 15 Feb 2006 02:22:35 -0700 (MST)
> > > > > Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 02:22:40 -0700
> > > > > From: "Wallace M. Klinck" <wmklinck@shaw.ca>
> > > > > To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> > > > > Message-id: <00a801c63211$5e7fbb60$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
> > > > > MIME-version: 1.0
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> > > > > References: <memo.703877@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> > > > > <001301c631a3$69b2e5c0$bad44246@cc.shawcable.net>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
> > > > > X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
> > > > > X-UIDL: _1cD.M5y8DB.mta02.mx
> > > > >
> > > > > Precisely, Joe.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was in Russia (and the Ukraine) around 1980 prior to the "fall"
of
> > > > > "communism." They did not even have refrigeration. There were
only
> > two
> > > > > bookstores in Moscow--with nothing displayed (although McGraw-Hill
> > > > > textbooks were being unpacked in the back!) other than the works
of
> > > Marx,
> > > > > Lenin, and other communist authors. We flew on AeroFlot--but even
> our
> > > > > guide, Luba, was white-knuckled and admitted she didn't like
> flying..
> > > The
> > > > > food in the hotel was most unsavoury--and, although the paper menu
> in
> > > the
> > > > > dining room was decidedly "gourmet", an attempt to order revealed
> that
> > > > > only about two dishes could actually be obtained--Stroganoff and
> > chicken
> > > > > which latter was so tough it was impossible to cut! I suggested
> to
> > > our
> > > > > guide that it must have been run over by a Russian tank! Oddly,
> > caviar
> > > > > (which I can't stand) was served at a special dinner! Any
building
> in
> > > the
> > > > > country-side looked like a dilapidated relic from out of a
previous
> > > > > century. Of course, I was aware that the state elite had special
> > > > > accommodation, imported food, special medical care, etc. The
> > > distribution
> > > > > of income was actually much more unequal than in the West--with
the
> > > > > existence of the Nomenklatura, a more or less secret class of
> > > > > millionaires. Sombre middle-aged men on aircraft pretended to be
> > > reading
> > > > > newspapers while their eyes were trained on the back of the seat
in
> > > front,
> > > > > listening to whatever they could hear of other passengers' talk.
A
> > > friend
> > > > > of mine, raised to be sympathetic to communism, assisted in the
> > conduct
> > > of
> > > > > guided tours from Canada to the U.S.S.R. He was picked up and
> > > > > interrogated at nights by the K.G.B. and shown extensive
scrapbooks
> > > > > listing people in Northern Alberta and asked what were their
> politics
> > > and
> > > > > activities. Needless to say, my friend did an about face when
> > > confronted
> > > > > with this priority given to "security" and "intelligence" by the
> > > "supreme
> > > > > state." The socialist Utopia was seen to have "feet of clay."
> > > > >
> > > > > The point is, the scarcity and lack of elementary freedom
> > > characteristic
> > > > > of the Soviet "system" represented inefficiency in delivering
> > abundance
> > > > > and freedom to the consuming (or better, "working" or "slaving")
> > public.
> > > > > The command economic (and political) system allocated resources
> > > according
> > > > > to "state" priorities and was heavily skewed toward capital vs
> > consumer
> > > > > goods--and was grossly inefficient from the standpoint of
delivering
> > > > > consumer satisfaction. Money was plentiful because of the Soviet
> > system
> > > > > of accountancy and controlled or administered prices, but
> motivational
> > > and
> > > > > organizational problems resulted in shortages of real consumer
> goods
> > > and
> > > > > services. The Soviet "economy" was more a mechanism designed for
> > > "people
> > > > > control" than a genuine production system.
> > > > >
> > > > > Social Credit recognizes that excess and unnecessary production of
> > > capital
> > > > > (and wasteful consumer) goods, merely to provide purchasing-power
> for
> > > > > purchase of earlier production, and so to "keep the system going",
> is
> > > > > inefficiency in terms of the Social Credit objective of a
> > > > > consumer-motivated economy. In both "capitalism" and "communism"
an
> > > > > increasing and unwarranted
> > > > > emphasis is given to capital production--as a means of "people
> > control."
> > > > > So although prices were controlled in a system of central
> > > > > state-administered "production" in communist U.S.S.R., this was
> > merely
> > > a
> > > > > masking of inflation by arbitrary means. The price to be paid in
> real
> > > > > terms was scarcity, misdirection of resources and political
tyranny.
> > > > > Thus, according to the Social Credit concept of "inflation" as a
> > measure
> > > > > or reflection of inefficiency, the U.S.S.R. was characterized by a
> > very
> > > > > high level of "inflation."
> > > > >
> > > > > The inefficiency and misdirection of resources toward wasteful and
> > > > > destructive (e.g. war) ends in the West is a measure of the real
> > > > > "inflation" in this part of the world. Because the consumer is
> > charged
> > > in
> > > > > prices with capital depreciation but not credited with capital
> > > > > appreciation the consumer is robbed of the real benefits of modern
> > > > > technology by being allowed to access the results which flow from
it
> > > only
> > > > > by increasing work. The citizenry is, thereby, denied the
increased
> > > > > potential leisure by which to enjoy not only the actual, but also
> the
> > > > > potential, real abundance which does, and which might, flow from
the
> > > ever
> > > > > modernizing productive system. All existing systems which employ
> tools
> > > to
> > > > > produce goods and services are "capitalist." They merely vary in
> > degree
> > > > > of centralized control and administration. They all are firmly
> based
> > > upon
> > > > > the concept of work as the essential requisite and justification
for
> > > > > consumption--as I have previously noted, upon the unChristian (and
> > > > > un-Social Credit) notion of Salvation through Works, as opposed to
> the
> > > > > concept of Salvation through Grace.
> > > > >
> > > > > Social Credit is distributist and offers a very different
> > dispensation,
> > > > > where access to wealth is increasingly based upon right by general
> > > > > inheritance and increasingly less upon industrial, commercial or
> > > > > institutional "work", now essentially forced upon the individual
by
> > the
> > > > > necessity of survival in the context of excess overall financial
> > > > > costs--"payable" only by means of exponentially expanding debt
> claims
> > > > > against the future.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wally
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> > > > > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:15 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> Who wants to live in any of those Russian apartments and have a
> > > lifelong
> > > > >> diet of only one kind of bread?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Joe
> > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >> From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> > > > >> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > > > >> Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> > > > >> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 12:56 PM
> > > > >> Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> In-Reply-To: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHIEFGGIAB.dan@danmorin.com>
> > > > >>> Hi Dan.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> If Webster is to be elevated to the rank of biblical truth, then
> > maybe
> > > > >>> you
> > > > >>> can offer me an explanation of why it was that in the USSR
between
> > > 1917
> > > > >>> and 1970 the price of a loaf of bread, and the rent of a Moscow
> flat
> > > did
> > > > >>> not increase.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Despite the working population having huge amounts of
> un-spendable
> > > > > money>> in their bank accounts.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> This was a classic case of increasing money supply, with
> inadequate
> > > > > goods>> for sale.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Why no price rise ?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Ken.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> -------- Original Message --------
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> X-Envelope-From:
> > > > >>>
> socialcredit-return-3390-kenpalmerton=cix.co.uk@elistas.comReceived:
> > > > > from>> q4.elistas.net (q4.elistas.net [216.66.20.202]) by
> > > > > mta02.mx.cix.co.uk>> (8.13.4/CIX/8.13.4) with SMTP id
k1D3KbTF030724
> > > > >>> for <kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk>; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 03:20:37
> GMT
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> > > +0100
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> > > 20:54:20 -0500
> > > > >>> (EST)From: "Daniel Morin" <dan@danmorin.com>
> > > > >>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > > > >>> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 21:01:58 -0500
> > > > >>> Message-ID: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHIEFGGIAB.dan@danmorin.com>
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> > > > >>> In-Reply-To: <BAY21-F27F9B18DD2F90F8C2C9A6BD040@phx.gbl>
> > > > >>> Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
> > > > >>> X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
> > > > >>> X-UIDL: _egH.Hs_7DB.mta02.mx
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90
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> > > > >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Before making your own definition of inflation to fit your A+B
> > model,
> > > > >>> here
> > > > >>> is the definition of Inflation according to my Webster
Dictionary:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> "An increase in the volume of money and credit relative to
> available
> > > > >>> goods
> > > > >>> and services resulting in a continuing rise in the general price
> > > level."
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Source: Webster Collegial Dictionary, 1996.
> > > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >>> From: John G Rawson [mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com]
> > > > >>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:02 PM
> > > > >>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> > > > >>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and
> > related
> > > > >>> issues
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> First, define inflation. Invariably, it is measured as
"rising
> > > > >>> prices",
> > > > >>> which therefore that is my, and I think our Party's, definition
of
> > it.
> > > > >>> It
> > > > >>> may be caused by "too much money ...", when it is "demand-pull
> > > > >>> inflation",
> > > > >>> or by other factors (e.g. rising oil prices or higher interest
> > rates)
> > > > >>> when
> > > > >>> it is "cost-push inflation".
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> And, once again, the A+B model postulates as a corollary that
we
> > > have
> > > > >>> cost-push inflation more than demand-pull. "There are factors
in
> > the
> > > > >>> economy (B costs) that push the cost of goods above the level of
> > > > > consumer>> purchasing power." So of course economists who deny the
> > > Douglas
> > > > > analkysis>> don't understand where inflation is coming from.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Regards. John R.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > > -
> > > > >>> -
> > > > >>> From: "W. McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
> > > > >>> Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> > > > >>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > > > >>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and
> > > related
> > > > >>> issues
> > > > >>> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 23:04:53 +1300
> > > > >>> >Hi Kenneth
> > > > >>> > I had not really considered that question of "inflation"
> > > > >>> >as it operated in our economy, but was intrigued by your
> > comment
> > > > >>> that
> > > > >>> >socalled "economic experts" have never produced a really
> > > > >>> satisfactory
> > > > >>> answer
> > > > >>> >as to why it happens. I find that, on reflection, all their
> > > > >>> "explanations"
> > > > >>> >appear to be waffle with little or no substance to back up
> > their
> > > > >>> comments.
> > > > >>> >They are very good at manipulating figures, but very short
on
> > > > >>> statisdtical
> > > > >>> >analysis of those figures. They always have an excuse as to
> why
> > > > >>> their
> > > > >>> >forecasts are incorrect. My youngest brother has a theory
> that
> > > > >>> inflation has
> > > > >>> >nothing to do with money or product availablity, but is the
> > > direct
> > > > >>> result of
> > > > >>> >propaganda perpetrated by banking organisations who
encourage
> > > price
> > > > >>> >increases by simply stating that inflation is increasing
and
> > > prices
> > > > >>> must
> > > > >>> >increase to compensate for it. They don't have to state any
> > > > > reasons,>> but
> > > > >>> >simply create an atmosphere whereby price increases are
> > accepted.
> > > > >>> Inflation,
> > > > >>> >i.e. increased costs for goods and services, follows on as
a
> > > > >>> self-induced,
> > > > >>> >self-fullfilling prophesy. Effectively "inflation" is a
mind
> > set
> > > > >>> rather >than an economic consequence. I cannot see how this
can
> > be
> > > > >>> quantified,but I
> > > > >>> >can see the logic in his argument. It certainly explains
the
> > > > >>> "stagflation"
> > > > >>> >phenomena where costs still increased despite falling
> > industrial
> > > > >>> production
> > > > >>> >and increasing unemployment.
> > > > >>> > Bill Mc Gunnigle
> > > > >>> >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >>> >From: "Kenneth Palmerton"
<kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> > > > >>> >To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > > > >>> >Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> > > > >>> >Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 5:40 AM
> > > > >>> >Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and
Inflation--and
> > > > > related>> issues
> > > > >>> >
> > > > >>> >
> > > > >>> > > In-Reply-To:
> <00aa01c62844$b0b3d320$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
> > > > >>> > > Hi Wallace.
> > > > >>> > >
> > > > >>> > > For a very long time I have been of the opinion that
> > > economists
> > > > >>> do
> > > > >>> NOT
> > > > >>> > > understand "inflation". Even their attempts to describe
> it,
> > > and
> > > > >>> offer a
> > > > >>> > > definition leave me much less than convinced of their
> > > > > competence.>> > >
> > > > >>> > > They seem to offer no logical explanation of why prices
> > rise.
> > > > >>> > >
> > > > >>> > > I have sat with fellow directors of a manufacturing
> company
> > > > >>> around
> > > > >>> our
> > > > >>> > > board room table looking at each other wondering if our
> > > > >> competitors
> > > > >>> would
> > > > >>> > > let us get away with a price rise of our products.
> > > > >>> > >
> > > > >>> > > This was not so much an exercise in maximising our
> profits,
> > as
> > > > >>> trying
> > > > >>> > > desperately to cover our costs. This I believe is a
common
> > > > >>> scenario, > > common to most companies in mature markets.
> > > > >>> > >
> > > > >>> > > Coming to understand later the rightness of A+B has
> helped,
> > > with
> > > > >>> its > > reference to purchasing power, which was the other
> thing
> > we
> > > > >>> Directors
> > > > >>> > > agonised over. Would our customers have the money in
their
> > > > >>> pockets
> > > > >>> when
> > > > >>> > > they chose our products ?
> > > > >>> > >
> > > > >>> > > This enlightenment came too late for me and mine I fear
> :-))
> > > > >>> > >
> > > > >>> > > Ken.
> > > > >>> > >
> > > > >>> > >
> > > > >>> >
> > > > >>> >
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >>> >Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
> > list
> > > > > are>> at >http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > > > >>> >You're subscribed to this list with the email
> > > > >>> johngrawson@hotmail.com
> > > > >>> >For more information, visit
> > > > > http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit>;>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > > -
> > > > >>> -
> > > > >>> --
> > > > >>> Shop 'til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping
> > > > >>>
> > > >
> >
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
> are
> > > at
> > > > >>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > > > >>> You're subscribed to this list with the email dan@danmorin.com
> > > > >>> For more information, visit
> http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > >
> >
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
> are
> > > at
> > > > >>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > > > >>> You're subscribed to this list with the email
> kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
> > > > >>> For more information, visit
> http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90
> > > > >>> Content-Type: text/html;
> > > > >>> charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > > >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> > > > >>> <HTML><HEAD>
> > > > >>> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> > > > >>> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> > > > >>> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2604"
> > > > > name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
> > > > >>> <BODY>
> > > > >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006><FONT face=3DArial
> > > > >>> color=3D#0000ff =
> > > > >>> size=3D2>Before=20
> > > > >>> making your own definition of inflation to fit your A+B model,
> here
> > is
> > > =
> > > > >>> the=20
> > > > >>> definition of Inflation according to my Webster=20
> > > > >>> Dictionary:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
> > > > >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006><FONT face=3DArial
> > > > >>> color=3D#0000ff =
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
> > > > >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006>"An increase in the volume
> of
> > =
> > > > >>> money and=20
> > > > >>> credit relative to available goods and services resulting in a =
> > > > >>> continuing rise=20
> > > > >>> in the general price level.</SPAN><SPAN =
> > > > >>> class=3D703295401-13022006>"</SPAN></DIV>
> > > > >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006></SPAN> </DIV>
> > > > >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006><FONT face=3DArial
> > > > >>> color=3D#0000ff =
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> size=3D2>Source: Webster Collegial Dictionary,
> > > 1996.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
> > > > >>> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
> > > > >>> style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
#0000ff
> > > > > 2px
> > > > >>> =
> > > > >>> solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> > > > >>> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT
=
> > > > >>> face=3DTahoma=20
> > > > >>> size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> John G
> > Rawson=20
> > > > >>> [mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday,
> February
> > > 12,
> > > > > =
> > > > >>> 2006=20
> > > > >>> 3:02 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
> socialcredit@elistas.com<BR><B>Subject:</B>
> > > > >>> Re:=20
> > > > >>> [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and related=20
> > > > >>> issues<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
> > > > >>> <DIV>
> > > > >>> <P>First, define inflation. Invariably, it is measured
as
> =
> > > > >>> "rising=20
> > > > >>> prices", which therefore that is my, and I think our
> Party's,
> > =
> > > > >>> definition=20
> > > > >>> of it. It may be caused by "too much money ...", when it
> is
> > =
> > > > >>> "demand-pull=20
> > > > >>> inflation", or by other factors (e.g. rising oil prices or
> higher
> > =
> > > > >>> interest=20
> > > > >>> rates) when it is "cost-push inflation".</P>
> > > > >>> <P>And, once again, the A+B model postulates as a corollary
that
> > we
> > > =
> > > > >>> have=20
> > > > >>> cost-push inflation more than demand-pull. "There are
> > factors
> > > > > in >> =
> > > > >>> the=20
> > > > >>> economy (B costs) that push the cost of goods above the level
of
> =
> > > > >>> consumer=20
> > > > >>> purchasing power." So of course economists who deny the
Douglas
> =
> > > > >>> analkysis=20
> > > > >>> don't understand where inflation is coming from.</P>
> > > > >>> <P>Regards. <FONT color=3D#339933 size=3D4>John =
> > > > >>> R.</FONT></P>
> > > > >>> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
> > > > >>> style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
> #a0c6e5
> > > > >>> 2px =
> > > > >>> solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20
> > > > >>> style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif">
> > > > >>> <HR color=3D#a0c6e5 SIZE=3D1>
> > > > >>> From: <I>"W. McGunnigle" =
> > > > >>> <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz></I><BR>Reply-To:=20
> > > > >>> <I>socialcredit@elistas.com</I><BR>To:=20
> > > > >>> <I><socialcredit@elistas.com></I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: =
> > > > >>> [socialcredit]=20
> > > > >>> Social Credit and Inflation--and related issues</I><BR>Date:
> > > > > <I>Sun, >> =
> > > > >>> 12 Feb=20
> > > > >>> 2006 23:04:53 +1300</I><BR>>Hi Kenneth<BR>> I had not
> > > > > really=20>> considered that question of "inflation"<BR>>as
it
> > > > > operated in our >> =
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> economy, but was intrigued by your comment
> that<BR>>socalled
> > =
> > > > >>> "economic=20
> > > > >>> experts" have never produced a really satisfactory
> > > answer<BR>>as
> > > > > =>> to why=20
> > > > >>> it happens. I find that, on reflection, all their=20
> > > > >>> "explanations"<BR>>appear to be waffle with little or no
=
> > > > >>> substance to=20
> > > > >>> back up their comments.<BR>>They are very good at
> > manipulating
> > > =
> > > > >>> figures,=20
> > > > >>> but very short on statisdtical<BR>>analysis of those
> figures.
> > =
> > > > >>> They always=20
> > > > >>> have an excuse as to why their<BR>>forecasts are
incorrect.
> > My
> > > =
> > > > >>> youngest=20
> > > > >>> brother has a theory that inflation has<BR>>nothing to do
> > with
> > > =
> > > > >>> money or=20
> > > > >>> product availablity, but is the direct result
> > > > > of<BR>>propaganda=20>> perpetrated by banking organisations
> who
> > > > > encourage =>> price<BR>>increases by=20
> > > > >>> simply stating that inflation is increasing and prices =
> > > > >>> must<BR>>increase=20
> > > > >>> to compensate for it. They don't have to state any
reasons,=20
> > > > >>> but<BR>>simply create an atmosphere whereby price
increases
> > are
> > > =
> > > > >>> accepted.=20
> > > > >>> Inflation,<BR>>i.e. increased costs for goods and
services,
> =
> > > > >>> follows on as=20
> > > > >>> a self-induced,<BR>>self-fullfilling prophesy.
Effectively
> =
> > > > >>> "inflation" is=20
> > > > >>> a mind set rather<BR>>than an economic consequence. I
> cannot
> > > see
> > > > > =>> how this=20
> > > > >>> can be quantified, but I<BR>>can see the logic in his
> > argument.
> > > =
> > > > >>> It=20
> > > > >>> certainly explains the "stagflation"<BR>>phenomena where
> > costs
> > > =
> > > > >>> still=20
> > > > >>> increased despite falling industrial production<BR>>and =
> > > > >>> increasing=20
> > > > >>> unemployment.<BR>> Bill Mc Gunnigle<BR>>----- Original
> > > > > Message >> =
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> -----<BR>>From: "Kenneth Palmerton"=20
> > > > >>> <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk><BR>>To:=20
> > > > >>> <socialcredit@elistas.com><BR>>Cc:=20
> > > > >>> <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk><BR>>Sent:
Friday,
> =
> > > > >>> February 10,=20
> > > > >>> 2006 5:40 AM<BR>>Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social
Credit
> > > and=20
> > > > >>> Inflation--and related issues<BR>><BR>><BR>> > =
> > > > >>> In-Reply-To:=20
> > > > >>>
<00aa01c62844$b0b3d320$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny><BR>>
> > > > > >
> > > > >>> =
> > > > >>> Hi=20
> > > > >>> Wallace.<BR>> ><BR>> > For a very long time I
have
> > > been
> > > > > =>> of the=20
> > > > >>> opinion that economists do NOT<BR>> > understand
> > > "inflation".
> > > > > =>> Even=20
> > > > >>> their attempts to describe it, and offer a<BR>> >
> > definition
> > > =
> > > > >>> leave me=20
> > > > >>> much less than convinced of their competence.<BR>>
> > ><BR>>
> > > =
> > > > >>> > They=20
> > > > >>> seem to offer no logical explanation of why prices
> > > rise.<BR>>=20
> > > > >>> ><BR>> > I have sat with fellow directors of a =
> > > > >>> manufacturing=20
> > > > >>> company around our<BR>> > board room table looking at
> each
> > =
> > > > >>> other=20
> > > > >>> wondering if our competitors would<BR>> > let us get
> away
> > > > > with >> =
> > > > >>> a price=20
> > > > >>> rise of our products.<BR>> ><BR>> > This was not
> so
> > > > > much >> =
> > > > >>> an=20
> > > > >>> exercise in maximising our profits, as trying<BR>> > =
> > > > >>> desperately to=20
> > > > >>> cover our costs. This I believe is a common
scenario,<BR>>
> > >
> > > =
> > > > >>> common to=20
> > > > >>> most companies in mature markets.<BR>> ><BR>> >
> > Coming
> > > =
> > > > >>> to=20
> > > > >>> understand later the rightness of A+B has helped, with
> > its<BR>>
> > > =
> > > > >>> >=20
> > > > >>> reference to purchasing power, which was the other thing
we=20
> > > > >>> Directors<BR>> > agonised over. Would our customers
have
> > the
> > > =
> > > > >>> money in=20
> > > > >>> their pockets when<BR>> > they chose our products
> > > ?<BR>>=20
> > > > >>> ><BR>> > This enlightenment came too late for me
and
> > mine
> > > > > I >> =
> > > > >>> fear=20
> > > > >>> :-))<BR>> ><BR>> > Ken.<BR>> ><BR>>=20
> > > > >>> =
> > > > >>>
> > > > >
> > >
> >
>
><BR>><BR>><BR>>---------------------------------------------=>
> > > > >> ------------------------<BR>>Some=20
> > > > >>> introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
> > are=20
> > > > >>>
> > > > >
at<BR>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR>>You're
> > > > >>> =
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> subscribed to this list with the email =
> > > > >>> johngrawson@hotmail.com<BR>>For=20
> > > > >>> more information, visit=20
> > > > >>> =
> > > > >>>
> > > > >
> > >
> http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR
> > > > >>> =
> > > > >>> =20
> > > > >>> clear=3Dall>
> > > > >>> <HR>
> > > > >>> Shop =91til you drop at <A =
> > > > >>> href=3D"http://g.msn.com/8HMAENNZ/2743??PS=3D47575";=20
> > > > >>> target=3D_top>XtraMSN Shopping</A>=20
> > > > >>> =
> > > > >>>
> > > > >
> > >
> >
>
<P><PRE>-----------------------------------------------------------------=>
> > > > >> ----
> > > > >>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
> are
> > > at
> > > > >>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > > > >>> You're subscribed to this list with the email dan@danmorin.com
> > > > >>> For more information, visit
> http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> > > > >>> <P></P></PRE>
> > > > >>> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > >
> >
>
<p><pre>-------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >>> --
> > > > >>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
> are
> > > at
> > > > >>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > > > >>> You're subscribed to this list with the email
> kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
> > > > >>> For more information, visit
> http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> > > > >>> <p></pre><p>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90--
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
> are
> > at
> > > > >> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > > > >> You're subscribed to this list with the email wmklinck@shaw.ca
> > > > >> For more information, visit
> http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > > >> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.8/260 - Release Date:
> > > 2/14/2006
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
are
> > at
> > > > > http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > > > > You're subscribed to this list with the email
kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
> > > > > For more information, visit
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
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> > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > > > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.8/260 - Release Date:
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.8/260 - Release Date:
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> > > >
> > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
> at
> > > > http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > > > You're subscribed to this list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
> > > > For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
at
> > > http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > > You're subscribed to this list with the email wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz
> > > For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
> > http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > You're subscribed to this list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
> > For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>
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> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
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> You're subscribed to this list with the email wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz
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