| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control | | Date: | Monday, February 20, 2006 13:24:08 (+1300) | | From: | Peter Haines <cymric @.......nz>
|
| In reply to: | Message 3442 (written by Kenneth Palmerton) |
Howdy Ken,
The same in Australasia, the Reserve Banks job is to control 'inflation'
through regulating the price of money within legally defined rates of
'inflation', eg NZ its 0 to 3 %. This is IMF policy driven as I understand,
who monitors the RB. The word 'control' needs to be in quotation marks as
well.
Peter H
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control
> In-Reply-To: <001a01c63420$d736d2d0$6600a8c0@HAINESCOMPUTER>
> I agree with your analysis Peter.
>
> A bit like the Irish directions, I would not start from here either :-))
>
> In Europe the model that totally dominates economic thinking is the one
> that has "The control of inflation" as its central, and only aim.
>
> That it totally fails, and brings along with it most undesirable effects,
> should not surprise us.
>
> Ken.
>
> -------- Original Message --------
>
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> From: "Peter Haines" <cymric@xtra.co.nz>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> References: <memo.879317@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 13:18:27 +1300
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> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control
> X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
> X-UIDL: _C7E.nzp9DB.mta02.mx
>
> Howdy Ken,
>
> There is a position between the two extremes. That is to have a balance
> between the price of goods and services and the money supply 'within the
> economy'. This is what Douglas constructs by his diagnosis- within the
> economy. Currently the banking system is outside and above the economy,
> suppling the deficit which adds to the recurring inbalance.
>
> In a previous post you said "Because I dont worship at the foot of Social
> Credit, as some I fear do, your reference to what you say S.C. says about
> increase in money supply escapes my memory."
>
> This is the balance between the money supply and the goods and services-
> ie backed by the 'gold' in the standard of living. One doesnt have to be
> in a state of worship to want the same- a fair and workable system.
>
> You also said "..the solution to what I for one wish to see happen are
> found within its ( A plus B theorem) understanding". I agree.
>
> The A plus B theorem would suggest that inflation ( too much money chasing
> too few goods) would be virtaully an impossiblility as its the opposite.
> But the capitalist economy is one of boom and bust. The inbalance builds
> up cyclically and swings to the extremes and that is where I believe
> inflation comes from. I dont believe we can find it by watching/studying
> the standard nuts and bolts. That is why Douglas discovered the truth
> about the flawed system of pricing/costs (A plus B) because he didnt look
> at the standard nuts and bolts.
>
> I think inflation is an aberration driven by the laws of maths which the
> current system is continually fighting.
>
> Peter H
>
>
>
>
> ---- Original Message -----
> From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 2:58 AM
> Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control
>
>
>> In-Reply-To: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHMEIBGKAB.dan@danmorin.com>
>> Hi Dan.
>>
>> What a great story :-) It would make a fabulous book. How about calling
> it> 1984 ?
>>
>> But seriously, from the earliest times of classical economics certain
>> assumptions were made about how a "free market" worked, and in theory it
>> all made sense, up until the time that individuals and organisations
>> started to fiddle with them.
>>
>> Some of the modifications had logic about them, and could be freely
>> allowed after wide and open debate. But by far the greatest interferences
>> were down to private vested interests, groups or individuals applying
>> pressure, because they could, with the people giving way to them, because
>> they couldn't :-(
>>
>> Most of us that have studied the alternatives to the existing money
>> system, I think, are fairly clear about what should be in place if peace
>> and justice are to be the norms. I think we know the private vested
>> interests that should not be allowed.
>>
>> What I think is generally agreed is that a stable price level is
>> desirable, and that the sort of emergency controls that the UK
> experienced> in wartime could only be envisaged as a temporary measure.
> And the> permanent controls of the Soviets not what most of us westerners
> would> consider acceptable.
>>
>> There must be a position between the command economy and unbridled
>> capitalism that can do the trick.
>>
>> Is that not so ?
>>
>> Ken.
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>>
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>> (EST)From: "Daniel Morin" <dan@danmorin.com>
>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 10:45:30 -0500
>> Message-ID: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHMEIBGKAB.dan@danmorin.com>
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>> In-Reply-To: <005f01c6329a$3a325f90$6b23e5cf@martinh4>
>> Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control
>> X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
>> X-UIDL: _bTE.F1J9DB.mta02.mx
>>
>> The only way to guarantee a "price control" is to have a "police" willing
>> tokill anyone "breaking the [price control] law". It is important this
>> "police" makes decisions quickly, have no mercy and does not allow any
>> trialand/or jury. You must be skilled producing propaganda to find a
>> "good
>> cause" why this "law breaker" got executed. This is quite easy you
>> control
>> the media (TV, Radio, Newspaper) and people don't have access to the
>> Internet. If people discover their fellows are being executed being
>> becausethey sold their loaf of bread a dime higher than the price set by
>> politicians, then people would disapprove, but if they are being told
>> another propaganda story, you may appear as a political hero rather than
> a> serial killer. Bringing those "law breakers" to court would be a bad
>> idea,
>> because no jury would sentence to death someone selling a loaf of bread a
>> bit too high.
>>
>> Giving fines to those selling on the "black market" does not work. Those
>> individuals would pay the fines the same a they pay bribes... and
> continue> business. Putting them to jail would fill the prisons, and
> people would> wonder why they are in jail. The population would start
> rebelling against> tyranny. Remember, propaganda is the key, and you must
> act quickly to > stay
>> in power.
>>
>> It is also important you teach young children the doctrine of the "police
>> state" and why it is important for the cause. Without brainwashing,
> those> children would learn that there are better alternatives than the
> "police> state".
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Martin Hattersley [mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:35 PM
>>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>>
>>>
>>> My own researches lead me to believe that, although "wage and
>>> price control"
>>> may limit both wages ane prices in the short run, especially if
>>> backed up by
>>> some patriotic salesmanship, they inevitably break down as a
>>> "black market"
>>> develops. At which time prices and wages rise to what they would
>>> have been,
>>> based on money supply factors, had the controls never been put in place.
>>>
>>> Martin Hattersley
>>> 1970-10123-99 St.,
>>> EDMONTON AB CANADA
>>> Phone (780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247
>>> e-mail: hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>> Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:40 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>>
>>>
>>> > In-Reply-To: <00a801c63211$5e7fbb60$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
>>> > Hi Wally.
>>> >
>>> > My apologies if I have provoked you into a monologue upon your
> feelings>> > about the Soviet system. And though I agree with you about
> the
>>> downside s,
>>> > that provocation was NOT my intention.
>>> >
>>> > I wished to challenge the orthodox assumption, that is
>>> universally taught
>>> > in the west, that if there is an increase in the money supply, there
>> HAS> > to be an increase in prices.
>>> >
>>> > I have pointed out Galbraith s job of price control in WW2 in the US,
>>> > though to suggest it now would almost certainly give the Gurus of Wall
>>> > Street apoplexy :-)))
>>> >
>>> > Our experience here in the UK at that time was that Keynes
>>> invented a form
>>> > of compulsory saving, euphemistically called "Post War
>>> Credits". In which
>>> > the high wages of the workers left at home, and not unproductive and
> in>> > uniform, were syphoned off from immediate purchasing power.
>>> >
>>> > So that cast iron "law" that we are all taught is not so cast iron
>> after> > all :-))
>>> >
>>> > Ken.
>>> >
>>> > -------- Original Message --------
>>> >
>>> > X-Envelope-From:
>>> >
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>>> > Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 02:22:40 -0700
>>> > From: "Wallace M. Klinck" <wmklinck@shaw.ca>
>>> > To: socialcredit@elistas.com
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>>> > References: <memo.703877@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>> > <001301c631a3$69b2e5c0$bad44246@cc.shawcable.net>
>>> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>> > X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
>>> > X-UIDL: _1cD.M5y8DB.mta02.mx
>>> >
>>> > Precisely, Joe.
>>> >
>>> > I was in Russia (and the Ukraine) around 1980 prior to the "fall" of
>>> > "communism." They did not even have refrigeration. There were only
>> two> > bookstores in Moscow--with nothing displayed (although McGraw-Hill
>>> > textbooks were being unpacked in the back!) other than the
>>> works of Marx,
>>> > Lenin, and other communist authors. We flew on AeroFlot--but even our
>>> > guide, Luba, was white-knuckled and admitted she didn't like
>>> flying.. The
>>> > food in the hotel was most unsavoury--and, although the paper
>>> menu in the
>>> > dining room was decidedly "gourmet", an attempt to order revealed that
>>> > only about two dishes could actually be obtained--Stroganoff and
>> chicken> > which latter was so tough it was impossible to cut! I
>>> suggested to our
>>> > guide that it must have been run over by a Russian tank! Oddly,
> caviar>> > (which I can't stand) was served at a special dinner! Any
>>> building in the
>>> > country-side looked like a dilapidated relic from out of a previous
>>> > century. Of course, I was aware that the state elite had special
>>> > accommodation, imported food, special medical care, etc. The
>>> distribution
>>> > of income was actually much more unequal than in the West--with the
>>> > existence of the Nomenklatura, a more or less secret class of
>>> > millionaires. Sombre middle-aged men on aircraft pretended to
>>> be reading
>>> > newspapers while their eyes were trained on the back of the
>>> seat in front,
>>> > listening to whatever they could hear of other passengers'
>>> talk. A friend
>>> > of mine, raised to be sympathetic to communism, assisted in the
>>> conduct of
>>> > guided tours from Canada to the U.S.S.R. He was picked up and
>>> > interrogated at nights by the K.G.B. and shown extensive scrapbooks
>>> > listing people in Northern Alberta and asked what were their
>>> politics and
>>> > activities. Needless to say, my friend did an about face when
>>> confronted
>>> > with this priority given to "security" and "intelligence" by
>>> the "supreme
>>> > state." The socialist Utopia was seen to have "feet of clay."
>>> >
>>> > The point is, the scarcity and lack of elementary freedom
>>> characteristic
>>> > of the Soviet "system" represented inefficiency in delivering
> abundance>> > and freedom to the consuming (or better, "working" or
> "slaving")> public.> > The command economic (and political) system
> allocated resources>> according
>>> > to "state" priorities and was heavily skewed toward capital vs
> consumer>> > goods--and was grossly inefficient from the standpoint of
> delivering>> > consumer satisfaction. Money was plentiful because of the
> Soviet> system> > of accountancy and controlled or administered prices,
> but
>>> motivational and
>>> > organizational problems resulted in shortages of real consumer
>>> goods and
>>> > services. The Soviet "economy" was more a mechanism designed
>>> for "people
>>> > control" than a genuine production system.
>>> >
>>> > Social Credit recognizes that excess and unnecessary production
>>> of capital
>>> > (and wasteful consumer) goods, merely to provide purchasing-power for
>>> > purchase of earlier production, and so to "keep the system going", is
>>> > inefficiency in terms of the Social Credit objective of a
>>> > consumer-motivated economy. In both "capitalism" and "communism" an
>>> > increasing and unwarranted
>>> > emphasis is given to capital production--as a means of "people
>> control."> > So although prices were controlled in a system of central
>>> > state-administered "production" in communist U.S.S.R., this
>>> was merely a
>>> > masking of inflation by arbitrary means. The price to be paid in real
>>> > terms was scarcity, misdirection of resources and political tyranny.
>>> > Thus, according to the Social Credit concept of "inflation" as a
>> measure> > or reflection of inefficiency, the U.S.S.R. was characterized
>> by a very> > high level of "inflation."
>>> >
>>> > The inefficiency and misdirection of resources toward wasteful and
>>> > destructive (e.g. war) ends in the West is a measure of the real
>>> > "inflation" in this part of the world. Because the consumer is
>>> charged in
>>> > prices with capital depreciation but not credited with capital
>>> > appreciation the consumer is robbed of the real benefits of modern
>>> > technology by being allowed to access the results which flow
>>> from it only
>>> > by increasing work. The citizenry is, thereby, denied the increased
>>> > potential leisure by which to enjoy not only the actual, but also the
>>> > potential, real abundance which does, and which might, flow
>>> from the ever
>>> > modernizing productive system. All existing systems which
>>> employ tools to
>>> > produce goods and services are "capitalist." They merely vary in
>> degree> > of centralized control and administration. They all are firmly
>>> based upon
>>> > the concept of work as the essential requisite and justification for
>>> > consumption--as I have previously noted, upon the unChristian (and
>>> > un-Social Credit) notion of Salvation through Works, as opposed to the
>>> > concept of Salvation through Grace.
>>> >
>>> > Social Credit is distributist and offers a very different
> dispensation,>> > where access to wealth is increasingly based upon right
> by general>> > inheritance and increasingly less upon industrial,
> commercial or>> > institutional "work", now essentially forced upon the
> individual by the>> > necessity of survival in the context of excess
> overall financial>> > costs--"payable" only by means of exponentially
> expanding debt claims>> > against the future.
>>> >
>>> > Wally
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
>>> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:15 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Who wants to live in any of those Russian apartments and have
>>> a lifelong
>>> >> diet of only one kind of bread?
>>> >>
>>> >> Joe
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>> >> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>> >> Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>> >> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 12:56 PM
>>> >> Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> In-Reply-To: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHIEFGGIAB.dan@danmorin.com>
>>> >>> Hi Dan.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> If Webster is to be elevated to the rank of biblical truth, then
>> maybe> >>> you
>>> >>> can offer me an explanation of why it was that in the USSR
>>> between 1917
>>> >>> and 1970 the price of a loaf of bread, and the rent of a
>>> Moscow flat did
>>> >>> not increase.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Despite the working population having huge amounts of un-spendable
>>> > money>> in their bank accounts.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> This was a classic case of increasing money supply, with inadequate
>>> > goods>> for sale.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Why no price rise ?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Ken.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> >>>
>>> >>> X-Envelope-From:
>>> >>> socialcredit-return-3390-kenpalmerton=cix.co.uk@elistas.comReceived:
>>> > from>> q4.elistas.net (q4.elistas.net [216.66.20.202]) by
>>> > mta02.mx.cix.co.uk>> (8.13.4/CIX/8.13.4) with SMTP id k1D3KbTF030724
>>> >>> for <kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk>; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 03:20:37 GMT
>>> >>> Received: (qmail 1117 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2006
>>> 04:30:40 +0100
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>>> 02:43:32 +0100
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>>> >>> for <socialcredit@elistas.com>; Sun, 12 Feb 2006
>>> 20:54:20 -0500
>>> >>> (EST)From: "Daniel Morin" <dan@danmorin.com>
>>> >>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>> >>> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 21:01:58 -0500
>>> >>> Message-ID: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHIEFGGIAB.dan@danmorin.com>
>>> >>> MIME-Version: 1.0
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>>> >>> X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
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>>> >>> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
>>> >>> Importance: Normal
>>> >>> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
>>> >>> In-Reply-To: <BAY21-F27F9B18DD2F90F8C2C9A6BD040@phx.gbl>
>>> >>> Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>> >>> X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
>>> >>> X-UIDL: _egH.Hs_7DB.mta02.mx
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90
>>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain;
>>> >>> charset="iso-8859-1"
>>> >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Before making your own definition of inflation to fit your A+B
> model,>> >>> here
>>> >>> is the definition of Inflation according to my Webster Dictionary:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> "An increase in the volume of money and credit relative to available
>>> >>> goods
>>> >>> and services resulting in a continuing rise in the general
>>> price level."
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Source: Webster Collegial Dictionary, 1996.
>>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>> From: John G Rawson [mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com]
>>> >>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:02 PM
>>> >>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and
>> related> >>> issues
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> First, define inflation. Invariably, it is measured as "rising
>>> >>> prices",
>>> >>> which therefore that is my, and I think our Party's, definition of
>> it.> >>> It
>>> >>> may be caused by "too much money ...", when it is "demand-pull
>>> >>> inflation",
>>> >>> or by other factors (e.g. rising oil prices or higher interest
> rates)>> >>> when
>>> >>> it is "cost-push inflation".
>>> >>>
>>> >>> And, once again, the A+B model postulates as a corollary
>>> that we have
>>> >>> cost-push inflation more than demand-pull. "There are factors in
> the>> >>> economy (B costs) that push the cost of goods above the level of
>>> > consumer>> purchasing power." So of course economists who deny
>>> the Douglas
>>> > analkysis>> don't understand where inflation is coming from.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Regards. John R.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------->
>>> > -
>>> >>> -
>>> >>> From: "W. McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
>>> >>> Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>>> >>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and
>>> Inflation--and related
>>> >>> issues
>>> >>> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 23:04:53 +1300
>>> >>> >Hi Kenneth
>>> >>> > I had not really considered that question of "inflation"
>>> >>> >as it operated in our economy, but was intrigued by your
> comment>> >>> that
>>> >>> >socalled "economic experts" have never produced a really
>>> >>> satisfactory
>>> >>> answer
>>> >>> >as to why it happens. I find that, on reflection, all their
>>> >>> "explanations"
>>> >>> >appear to be waffle with little or no substance to back up
> their>> >>> comments.
>>> >>> >They are very good at manipulating figures, but very short on
>>> >>> statisdtical
>>> >>> >analysis of those figures. They always have an excuse as to why
>>> >>> their
>>> >>> >forecasts are incorrect. My youngest brother has a theory that
>>> >>> inflation has
>>> >>> >nothing to do with money or product availablity, but is
>>> the direct
>>> >>> result of
>>> >>> >propaganda perpetrated by banking organisations who
>>> encourage price
>>> >>> >increases by simply stating that inflation is increasing
>>> and prices
>>> >>> must
>>> >>> >increase to compensate for it. They don't have to state any
>>> > reasons,>> but
>>> >>> >simply create an atmosphere whereby price increases are
>> accepted.> >>> Inflation,
>>> >>> >i.e. increased costs for goods and services, follows on as a
>>> >>> self-induced,
>>> >>> >self-fullfilling prophesy. Effectively "inflation" is a mind
> set>> >>> rather >than an economic consequence. I cannot see how this
> can be>> >>> quantified,but I
>>> >>> >can see the logic in his argument. It certainly explains the
>>> >>> "stagflation"
>>> >>> >phenomena where costs still increased despite falling
> industrial>> >>> production
>>> >>> >and increasing unemployment.
>>> >>> > Bill Mc Gunnigle
>>> >>> >----- Original Message -----
>>> >>> >From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>> >>> >To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>> >>> >Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>> >>> >Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 5:40 AM
>>> >>> >Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and
>>> > related>> issues
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > > In-Reply-To:
>> <00aa01c62844$b0b3d320$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
>>> >>> > > Hi Wallace.
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > > For a very long time I have been of the opinion that
>>> economists
>>> >>> do
>>> >>> NOT
>>> >>> > > understand "inflation". Even their attempts to
>>> describe it, and
>>> >>> offer a
>>> >>> > > definition leave me much less than convinced of their
>>> > competence.>> > >
>>> >>> > > They seem to offer no logical explanation of why prices
> rise.>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > > I have sat with fellow directors of a manufacturing company
>>> >>> around
>>> >>> our
>>> >>> > > board room table looking at each other wondering if our
>>> >> competitors
>>> >>> would
>>> >>> > > let us get away with a price rise of our products.
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > > This was not so much an exercise in maximising our profits,
>> as> >>> trying
>>> >>> > > desperately to cover our costs. This I believe is a common
>>> >>> scenario, > > common to most companies in mature markets.
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > > Coming to understand later the rightness of A+B has
>>> helped, with
>>> >>> its > > reference to purchasing power, which was the other thing
>> we> >>> Directors
>>> >>> > > agonised over. Would our customers have the money in their
>>> >>> pockets
>>> >>> when
>>> >>> > > they chose our products ?
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > > This enlightenment came too late for me and mine I fear :-))
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > > Ken.
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>> >Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
> list>> > are>> at >http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> >>> >You're subscribed to this list with the email
>>> >>> johngrawson@hotmail.com
>>> >>> >For more information, visit
>>> > http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit>;>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------->
>>> > -
>>> >>> -
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> Shop 'til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------->>
>>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this>> list are
> at>> >>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> >>> You're subscribed to this list with the email dan@danmorin.com
>>> >>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------->>
>>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this>> list are
> at>> >>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> >>> You're subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>>> >>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90
>>> >>> Content-Type: text/html;
>>> >>> charset="iso-8859-1"
>>> >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>> >>>
>>> >>> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>> >>> <HTML><HEAD>
>>> >>> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>> >>> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>> >>> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2604"
>>> > name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
>>> >>> <BODY>
>>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006><FONT face=3DArial
>>> >>> color=3D#0000ff =
>>> >>> size=3D2>Before=20
>>> >>> making your own definition of inflation to fit your A+B
>>> model, here is =
>>> >>> the=20
>>> >>> definition of Inflation according to my Webster=20
>>> >>> Dictionary:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
>>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006><FONT face=3DArial
>>> >>> color=3D#0000ff =
>>> >>>
>>> >>> size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
>>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006>"An increase in the volume of
>> =
>>> >>> money and=20
>>> >>> credit relative to available goods and services resulting in a =
>>> >>> continuing rise=20
>>> >>> in the general price level.</SPAN><SPAN =
>>> >>> class=3D703295401-13022006>"</SPAN></DIV>
>>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006></SPAN> </DIV>
>>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006><FONT face=3DArial
>>> >>> color=3D#0000ff =
>>> >>>
>>> >>> size=3D2>Source: Webster Collegial Dictionary,
>>> 1996.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
>>> >>> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>>> >>> style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
> #0000ff
>>> > 2px
>>> >>> =
>>> >>> solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>> >>> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
>>> >>> face=3DTahoma=20
>>> >>> size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> John G
>> Rawson=20> >>> [mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B>
> Sunday,
>>> February 12,
>>> > =
>>> >>> 2006=20
>>> >>> 3:02 PM<BR><B>To:</B> socialcredit@elistas.com<BR><B>Subject:</B>
>>> >>> Re:=20
>>> >>> [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and related=20
>>> >>> issues<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
>>> >>> <DIV>
>>> >>> <P>First, define inflation. Invariably, it is measured as =
>>> >>> "rising=20
>>> >>> prices", which therefore that is my, and I think our Party's,
>> => >>> definition=20
>>> >>> of it. It may be caused by "too much money ...", when it is
> =>> >>> "demand-pull=20
>>> >>> inflation", or by other factors (e.g. rising oil prices or higher
> =>> >>> interest=20
>>> >>> rates) when it is "cost-push inflation".</P>
>>> >>> <P>And, once again, the A+B model postulates as a corollary
>>> that we =
>>> >>> have=20
>>> >>> cost-push inflation more than demand-pull. "There are
> factors>> > in >> =
>>> >>> the=20
>>> >>> economy (B costs) that push the cost of goods above the level of =
>>> >>> consumer=20
>>> >>> purchasing power." So of course economists who deny the Douglas =
>>> >>> analkysis=20
>>> >>> don't understand where inflation is coming from.</P>
>>> >>> <P>Regards. <FONT color=3D#339933 size=3D4>John =
>>> >>> R.</FONT></P>
>>> >>> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
>>> >>> style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
>> #a0c6e5
>>> >>> 2px =
>>> >>> solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20
>>> >>> style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif">
>>> >>> <HR color=3D#a0c6e5 SIZE=3D1>
>>> >>> From: <I>"W. McGunnigle" =
>>> >>> <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz></I><BR>Reply-To:=20
>>> >>> <I>socialcredit@elistas.com</I><BR>To:=20
>>> >>> <I><socialcredit@elistas.com></I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: =
>>> >>> [socialcredit]=20
>>> >>> Social Credit and Inflation--and related issues</I><BR>Date:
>>> > <I>Sun, >> =
>>> >>> 12 Feb=20
>>> >>> 2006 23:04:53 +1300</I><BR>>Hi Kenneth<BR>> I had not
>>> > really=20>> considered that question of "inflation"<BR>>as it
>>> > operated in our >> =
>>> >>>
>>> >>> economy, but was intrigued by your comment that<BR>>socalled
> =>> >>> "economic=20
>>> >>> experts" have never produced a really satisfactory
>>> answer<BR>>as
>>> > =>> to why=20
>>> >>> it happens. I find that, on reflection, all their=20
>>> >>> "explanations"<BR>>appear to be waffle with little or no =
>>> >>> substance to=20
>>> >>> back up their comments.<BR>>They are very good at
>>> manipulating =
>>> >>> figures,=20
>>> >>> but very short on statisdtical<BR>>analysis of those figures.
>> => >>> They always=20
>>> >>> have an excuse as to why their<BR>>forecasts are
>>> incorrect. My =
>>> >>> youngest=20
>>> >>> brother has a theory that inflation has<BR>>nothing to
>>> do with =
>>> >>> money or=20
>>> >>> product availablity, but is the direct result
>>> > of<BR>>propaganda=20>> perpetrated by banking organisations who
>>> > encourage =>> price<BR>>increases by=20
>>> >>> simply stating that inflation is increasing and prices =
>>> >>> must<BR>>increase=20
>>> >>> to compensate for it. They don't have to state any reasons,=20
>>> >>> but<BR>>simply create an atmosphere whereby price
>>> increases are =
>>> >>> accepted.=20
>>> >>> Inflation,<BR>>i.e. increased costs for goods and services, =
>>> >>> follows on as=20
>>> >>> a self-induced,<BR>>self-fullfilling prophesy. Effectively =
>>> >>> "inflation" is=20
>>> >>> a mind set rather<BR>>than an economic consequence. I
>>> cannot see
>>> > =>> how this=20
>>> >>> can be quantified, but I<BR>>can see the logic in his
>>> argument. =
>>> >>> It=20
>>> >>> certainly explains the "stagflation"<BR>>phenomena
>>> where costs =
>>> >>> still=20
>>> >>> increased despite falling industrial production<BR>>and =
>>> >>> increasing=20
>>> >>> unemployment.<BR>> Bill Mc Gunnigle<BR>>----- Original
>>> > Message >> =
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -----<BR>>From: "Kenneth Palmerton"=20
>>> >>> <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk><BR>>To:=20
>>> >>> <socialcredit@elistas.com><BR>>Cc:=20
>>> >>> <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk><BR>>Sent: Friday, =
>>> >>> February 10,=20
>>> >>> 2006 5:40 AM<BR>>Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social
>>> Credit and=20
>>> >>> Inflation--and related issues<BR>><BR>><BR>> > =
>>> >>> In-Reply-To:=20
>>> >>>
> <00aa01c62844$b0b3d320$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny><BR>>
>>> > >
>>> >>> =
>>> >>> Hi=20
>>> >>> Wallace.<BR>> ><BR>> > For a very long time I
>>> have been
>>> > =>> of the=20
>>> >>> opinion that economists do NOT<BR>> > understand
>>> "inflation".
>>> > =>> Even=20
>>> >>> their attempts to describe it, and offer a<BR>> >
>>> definition =
>>> >>> leave me=20
>>> >>> much less than convinced of their competence.<BR>>
>>> ><BR>> =
>>> >>> > They=20
>>> >>> seem to offer no logical explanation of why prices
>>> rise.<BR>>=20
>>> >>> ><BR>> > I have sat with fellow directors of a =
>>> >>> manufacturing=20
>>> >>> company around our<BR>> > board room table looking at each
>> => >>> other=20
>>> >>> wondering if our competitors would<BR>> > let us get away
>>> > with >> =
>>> >>> a price=20
>>> >>> rise of our products.<BR>> ><BR>> > This was not so
>>> > much >> =
>>> >>> an=20
>>> >>> exercise in maximising our profits, as trying<BR>> > =
>>> >>> desperately to=20
>>> >>> cover our costs. This I believe is a common
>>> scenario,<BR>> > =
>>> >>> common to=20
>>> >>> most companies in mature markets.<BR>> ><BR>>
>>> > Coming =
>>> >>> to=20
>>> >>> understand later the rightness of A+B has helped, with
>>> its<BR>> =
>>> >>> >=20
>>> >>> reference to purchasing power, which was the other thing we=20
>>> >>> Directors<BR>> > agonised over. Would our customers
>>> have the =
>>> >>> money in=20
>>> >>> their pockets when<BR>> > they chose our products
>>> ?<BR>>=20
>>> >>> ><BR>> > This enlightenment came too late for me and
>> mine> > I >> =
>>> >>> fear=20
>>> >>> :-))<BR>> ><BR>> > Ken.<BR>> ><BR>>=20
>>> >>> =
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>> ><BR>><BR>><BR>>--------------------------------------
>>> -------=>
>>> >> ------------------------<BR>>Some=20
>>> >>> introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>> are=20> >>>
>>> > at<BR>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR>>You're
>>> >>> =
>>> >>>
>>> >>> subscribed to this list with the email =
>>> >>> johngrawson@hotmail.com<BR>>For=20
>>> >>> more information, visit=20
>>> >>> =
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>>
>>
> http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR
>>> >>> =
>>> >>> =20
>>> >>> clear=3Dall>
>>> >>> <HR>
>>> >>> Shop =91til you drop at <A =
>>> >>> href=3D"http://g.msn.com/8HMAENNZ/2743??PS=3D47575";=20
>>> >>> target=3D_top>XtraMSN Shopping</A>=20
>>> >>> =
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>> <P><PRE>----------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------=>
>>> >> ----
>>> >>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
>>> list are at
>>> >>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> >>> You're subscribed to this list with the email dan@danmorin.com
>>> >>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>> >>> <P></P></PRE>
>>> >>> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> <p><pre>----------------------------------------------------------
>>> ---------
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
>>> list are at
>>> >>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> >>> You're subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>>> >>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>> >>> <p></pre><p>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90--
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
>> at> >> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> >> You're subscribed to this list with the email wmklinck@shaw.ca
>>> >> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>> >>
>>> >>
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>>> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> >> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.8/260 - Release
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>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
> at>> > http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> > You're subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>>> > For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.8/260 - Release Date:
>> 14/02/2006>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email dan@danmorin.com
>>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> You're subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>>
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>> (EST)From: "Daniel Morin" <dan@danmorin.com>
>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 10:45:30 -0500
>> Message-ID: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHMEIBGKAB.dan@danmorin.com>
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
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>> In-Reply-To: <005f01c6329a$3a325f90$6b23e5cf@martinh4>
>> Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control
>> X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
>> X-UIDL: _bTE.F1J9DB.mta02.mx
>>
>> The only way to guarantee a "price control" is to have a "police" willing
>> tokill anyone "breaking the [price control] law". It is important this
>> "police" makes decisions quickly, have no mercy and does not allow any
>> trialand/or jury. You must be skilled producing propaganda to find a
>> "good
>> cause" why this "law breaker" got executed. This is quite easy you
>> control
>> the media (TV, Radio, Newspaper) and people don't have access to the
>> Internet. If people discover their fellows are being executed being
>> becausethey sold their loaf of bread a dime higher than the price set by
>> politicians, then people would disapprove, but if they are being told
>> another propaganda story, you may appear as a political hero rather than
> a> serial killer. Bringing those "law breakers" to court would be a bad
>> idea,
>> because no jury would sentence to death someone selling a loaf of bread a
>> bit too high.
>>
>> Giving fines to those selling on the "black market" does not work. Those
>> individuals would pay the fines the same a they pay bribes... and
> continue> business. Putting them to jail would fill the prisons, and
> people would> wonder why they are in jail. The population would start
> rebelling against> tyranny. Remember, propaganda is the key, and you must
> act quickly to > stay
>> in power.
>>
>> It is also important you teach young children the doctrine of the "police
>> state" and why it is important for the cause. Without brainwashing,
> those> children would learn that there are better alternatives than the
> "police> state".
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Martin Hattersley [mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:35 PM
>>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>>
>>>
>>> My own researches lead me to believe that, although "wage and
>>> price control"
>>> may limit both wages ane prices in the short run, especially if
>>> backed up by
>>> some patriotic salesmanship, they inevitably break down as a
>>> "black market"
>>> develops. At which time prices and wages rise to what they would
>>> have been,
>>> based on money supply factors, had the controls never been put in place.
>>>
>>> Martin Hattersley
>>> 1970-10123-99 St.,
>>> EDMONTON AB CANADA
>>> Phone (780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247
>>> e-mail: hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>> Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:40 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>>
>>>
>>> > In-Reply-To: <00a801c63211$5e7fbb60$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
>>> > Hi Wally.
>>> >
>>> > My apologies if I have provoked you into a monologue upon your
> feelings>> > about the Soviet system. And though I agree with you about
> the
>>> downside s,
>>> > that provocation was NOT my intention.
>>> >
>>> > I wished to challenge the orthodox assumption, that is
>>> universally taught
>>> > in the west, that if there is an increase in the money supply, there
>> HAS> > to be an increase in prices.
>>> >
>>> > I have pointed out Galbraith s job of price control in WW2 in the US,
>>> > though to suggest it now would almost certainly give the Gurus of Wall
>>> > Street apoplexy :-)))
>>> >
>>> > Our experience here in the UK at that time was that Keynes
>>> invented a form
>>> > of compulsory saving, euphemistically called "Post War
>>> Credits". In which
>>> > the high wages of the workers left at home, and not unproductive and
> in>> > uniform, were syphoned off from immediate purchasing power.
>>> >
>>> > So that cast iron "law" that we are all taught is not so cast iron
>> after> > all :-))
>>> >
>>> > Ken.
>>> >
>>> > -------- Original Message --------
>>> >
>>> > X-Envelope-From:
>>> >
>>> socialcredit-return-3415-kenpalmerton=cix.co.uk@elistas.comReceived:
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>>> > 15 Feb 2006 02:22:35 -0700 (MST)
>>> > Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 02:22:40 -0700
>>> > From: "Wallace M. Klinck" <wmklinck@shaw.ca>
>>> > To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>>> > Message-id: <00a801c63211$5e7fbb60$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
>>> > MIME-version: 1.0
>>> > X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
>>> > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
>>> > Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
>>> > reply-type=originalContent-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>>> > X-Priority: 3
>>> > X-MSMail-priority: Normal
>>> > References: <memo.703877@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>> > <001301c631a3$69b2e5c0$bad44246@cc.shawcable.net>
>>> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>> > X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
>>> > X-UIDL: _1cD.M5y8DB.mta02.mx
>>> >
>>> > Precisely, Joe.
>>> >
>>> > I was in Russia (and the Ukraine) around 1980 prior to the "fall" of
>>> > "communism." They did not even have refrigeration. There were only
>> two> > bookstores in Moscow--with nothing displayed (although McGraw-Hill
>>> > textbooks were being unpacked in the back!) other than the
>>> works of Marx,
>>> > Lenin, and other communist authors. We flew on AeroFlot--but even our
>>> > guide, Luba, was white-knuckled and admitted she didn't like
>>> flying.. The
>>> > food in the hotel was most unsavoury--and, although the paper
>>> menu in the
>>> > dining room was decidedly "gourmet", an attempt to order revealed that
>>> > only about two dishes could actually be obtained--Stroganoff and
>> chicken> > which latter was so tough it was impossible to cut! I
>>> suggested to our
>>> > guide that it must have been run over by a Russian tank! Oddly,
> caviar>> > (which I can't stand) was served at a special dinner! Any
>>> building in the
>>> > country-side looked like a dilapidated relic from out of a previous
>>> > century. Of course, I was aware that the state elite had special
>>> > accommodation, imported food, special medical care, etc. The
>>> distribution
>>> > of income was actually much more unequal than in the West--with the
>>> > existence of the Nomenklatura, a more or less secret class of
>>> > millionaires. Sombre middle-aged men on aircraft pretended to
>>> be reading
>>> > newspapers while their eyes were trained on the back of the
>>> seat in front,
>>> > listening to whatever they could hear of other passengers'
>>> talk. A friend
>>> > of mine, raised to be sympathetic to communism, assisted in the
>>> conduct of
>>> > guided tours from Canada to the U.S.S.R. He was picked up and
>>> > interrogated at nights by the K.G.B. and shown extensive scrapbooks
>>> > listing people in Northern Alberta and asked what were their
>>> politics and
>>> > activities. Needless to say, my friend did an about face when
>>> confronted
>>> > with this priority given to "security" and "intelligence" by
>>> the "supreme
>>> > state." The socialist Utopia was seen to have "feet of clay."
>>> >
>>> > The point is, the scarcity and lack of elementary freedom
>>> characteristic
>>> > of the Soviet "system" represented inefficiency in delivering
> abundance>> > and freedom to the consuming (or better, "working" or
> "slaving")> public.> > The command economic (and political) system
> allocated resources>> according
>>> > to "state" priorities and was heavily skewed toward capital vs
> consumer>> > goods--and was grossly inefficient from the standpoint of
> delivering>> > consumer satisfaction. Money was plentiful because of the
> Soviet> system> > of accountancy and controlled or administered prices,
> but
>>> motivational and
>>> > organizational problems resulted in shortages of real consumer
>>> goods and
>>> > services. The Soviet "economy" was more a mechanism designed
>>> for "people
>>> > control" than a genuine production system.
>>> >
>>> > Social Credit recognizes that excess and unnecessary production
>>> of capital
>>> > (and wasteful consumer) goods, merely to provide purchasing-power for
>>> > purchase of earlier production, and so to "keep the system going", is
>>> > inefficiency in terms of the Social Credit objective of a
>>> > consumer-motivated economy. In both "capitalism" and "communism" an
>>> > increasing and unwarranted
>>> > emphasis is given to capital production--as a means of "people
>> control."> > So although prices were controlled in a system of central
>>> > state-administered "production" in communist U.S.S.R., this
>>> was merely a
>>> > masking of inflation by arbitrary means. The price to be paid in real
>>> > terms was scarcity, misdirection of resources and political tyranny.
>>> > Thus, according to the Social Credit concept of "inflation" as a
>> measure> > or reflection of inefficiency, the U.S.S.R. was characterized
>> by a very> > high level of "inflation."
>>> >
>>> > The inefficiency and misdirection of resources toward wasteful and
>>> > destructive (e.g. war) ends in the West is a measure of the real
>>> > "inflation" in this part of the world. Because the consumer is
>>> charged in
>>> > prices with capital depreciation but not credited with capital
>>> > appreciation the consumer is robbed of the real benefits of modern
>>> > technology by being allowed to access the results which flow
>>> from it only
>>> > by increasing work. The citizenry is, thereby, denied the increased
>>> > potential leisure by which to enjoy not only the actual, but also the
>>> > potential, real abundance which does, and which might, flow
>>> from the ever
>>> > modernizing productive system. All existing systems which
>>> employ tools to
>>> > produce goods and services are "capitalist." They merely vary in
>> degree> > of centralized control and administration. They all are firmly
>>> based upon
>>> > the concept of work as the essential requisite and justification for
>>> > consumption--as I have previously noted, upon the unChristian (and
>>> > un-Social Credit) notion of Salvation through Works, as opposed to the
>>> > concept of Salvation through Grace.
>>> >
>>> > Social Credit is distributist and offers a very different
> dispensation,>> > where access to wealth is increasingly based upon right
> by general>> > inheritance and increasingly less upon industrial,
> commercial or>> > institutional "work", now essentially forced upon the
> individual by the>> > necessity of survival in the context of excess
> overall financial>> > costs--"payable" only by means of exponentially
> expanding debt claims>> > against the future.
>>> >
>>> > Wally
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
>>> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:15 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Who wants to live in any of those Russian apartments and have
>>> a lifelong
>>> >> diet of only one kind of bread?
>>> >>
>>> >> Joe
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>> >> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>> >> Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>> >> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 12:56 PM
>>> >> Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> In-Reply-To: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHIEFGGIAB.dan@danmorin.com>
>>> >>> Hi Dan.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> If Webster is to be elevated to the rank of biblical truth, then
>> maybe> >>> you
>>> >>> can offer me an explanation of why it was that in the USSR
>>> between 1917
>>> >>> and 1970 the price of a loaf of bread, and the rent of a
>>> Moscow flat did
>>> >>> not increase.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Despite the working population having huge amounts of un-spendable
>>> > money>> in their bank accounts.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> This was a classic case of increasing money supply, with inadequate
>>> > goods>> for sale.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Why no price rise ?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Ken.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> >>>
>>> >>> X-Envelope-From:
>>> >>> socialcredit-return-3390-kenpalmerton=cix.co.uk@elistas.comReceived:
>>> > from>> q4.elistas.net (q4.elistas.net [216.66.20.202]) by
>>> > mta02.mx.cix.co.uk>> (8.13.4/CIX/8.13.4) with SMTP id k1D3KbTF030724
>>> >>> for <kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk>; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 03:20:37 GMT
>>> >>> Received: (qmail 1117 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2006
>>> 04:30:40 +0100
>>> >>> Received: from mail.e-listas.com (66.7.164.206)
>>> >>> by q4.elistas.net with EMQP; 13 Feb 2006 04:30:40 +0100
>>> >>> Mailing-List: socialcredit@elistas.com
>>> >>> X-No-Archive: yes
>>> >>> List-Post: <mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>> >>> Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>>> >>> List-Help: <mailto:socialcredit-help@elistas.com>
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>>> >>> Received: (qmail 18418 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2006
>>> 02:43:32 +0100
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>>> >>> by mail.egrupos.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2006 02:43:32 +0100
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>>> [24.36.197.210])
>>> >>> by fep3.cogeco.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F8D019F10
>>> >>> for <socialcredit@elistas.com>; Sun, 12 Feb 2006
>>> 20:54:20 -0500
>>> >>> (EST)From: "Daniel Morin" <dan@danmorin.com>
>>> >>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>> >>> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 21:01:58 -0500
>>> >>> Message-ID: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHIEFGGIAB.dan@danmorin.com>
>>> >>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>> >>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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>>> >>> Importance: Normal
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>>> >>> In-Reply-To: <BAY21-F27F9B18DD2F90F8C2C9A6BD040@phx.gbl>
>>> >>> Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>> >>> X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
>>> >>> X-UIDL: _egH.Hs_7DB.mta02.mx
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90
>>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain;
>>> >>> charset="iso-8859-1"
>>> >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Before making your own definition of inflation to fit your A+B
> model,>> >>> here
>>> >>> is the definition of Inflation according to my Webster Dictionary:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> "An increase in the volume of money and credit relative to available
>>> >>> goods
>>> >>> and services resulting in a continuing rise in the general
>>> price level."
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Source: Webster Collegial Dictionary, 1996.
>>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>> From: John G Rawson [mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com]
>>> >>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:02 PM
>>> >>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and
>> related> >>> issues
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> First, define inflation. Invariably, it is measured as "rising
>>> >>> prices",
>>> >>> which therefore that is my, and I think our Party's, definition of
>> it.> >>> It
>>> >>> may be caused by "too much money ...", when it is "demand-pull
>>> >>> inflation",
>>> >>> or by other factors (e.g. rising oil prices or higher interest
> rates)>> >>> when
>>> >>> it is "cost-push inflation".
>>> >>>
>>> >>> And, once again, the A+B model postulates as a corollary
>>> that we have
>>> >>> cost-push inflation more than demand-pull. "There are factors in
> the>> >>> economy (B costs) that push the cost of goods above the level of
>>> > consumer>> purchasing power." So of course economists who deny
>>> the Douglas
>>> > analkysis>> don't understand where inflation is coming from.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Regards. John R.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------->
>>> > -
>>> >>> -
>>> >>> From: "W. McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
>>> >>> Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>>> >>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and
>>> Inflation--and related
>>> >>> issues
>>> >>> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 23:04:53 +1300
>>> >>> >Hi Kenneth
>>> >>> > I had not really considered that question of "inflation"
>>> >>> >as it operated in our economy, but was intrigued by your
> comment>> >>> that
>>> >>> >socalled "economic experts" have never produced a really
>>> >>> satisfactory
>>> >>> answer
>>> >>> >as to why it happens. I find that, on reflection, all their
>>> >>> "explanations"
>>> >>> >appear to be waffle with little or no substance to back up
> their>> >>> comments.
>>> >>> >They are very good at manipulating figures, but very short on
>>> >>> statisdtical
>>> >>> >analysis of those figures. They always have an excuse as to why
>>> >>> their
>>> >>> >forecasts are incorrect. My youngest brother has a theory that
>>> >>> inflation has
>>> >>> >nothing to do with money or product availablity, but is
>>> the direct
>>> >>> result of
>>> >>> >propaganda perpetrated by banking organisations who
>>> encourage price
>>> >>> >increases by simply stating that inflation is increasing
>>> and prices
>>> >>> must
>>> >>> >increase to compensate for it. They don't have to state any
>>> > reasons,>> but
>>> >>> >simply create an atmosphere whereby price increases are
>> accepted.> >>> Inflation,
>>> >>> >i.e. increased costs for goods and services, follows on as a
>>> >>> self-induced,
>>> >>> >self-fullfilling prophesy. Effectively "inflation" is a mind
> set>> >>> rather >than an economic consequence. I cannot see how this
> can be>> >>> quantified,but I
>>> >>> >can see the logic in his argument. It certainly explains the
>>> >>> "stagflation"
>>> >>> >phenomena where costs still increased despite falling
> industrial>> >>> production
>>> >>> >and increasing unemployment.
>>> >>> > Bill Mc Gunnigle
>>> >>> >----- Original Message -----
>>> >>> >From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>> >>> >To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>> >>> >Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>> >>> >Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 5:40 AM
>>> >>> >Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and
>>> > related>> issues
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > > In-Reply-To:
> <00aa01c62844$b0b3d320$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
>>> >>> > > Hi Wallace.
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > > For a very long time I have been of the opinion that
>>> economists
>>> >>> do
>>> >>> NOT
>>> >>> > > understand "inflation". Even their attempts to
>>> describe it, and
>>> >>> offer a
>>> >>> > > definition leave me much less than convinced of their
>>> > competence.>> > >
>>> >>> > > They seem to offer no logical explanation of why prices
> rise.>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > > I have sat with fellow directors of a manufacturing company
>>> >>> around
>>> >>> our
>>> >>> > > board room table looking at each other wondering if our
>>> >> competitors
>>> >>> would
>>> >>> > > let us get away with a price rise of our products.
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > > This was not so much an exercise in maximising our profits,
>> as> >>> trying
>>> >>> > > desperately to cover our costs. This I believe is a common
>>> >>> scenario, > > common to most companies in mature markets.
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > > Coming to understand later the rightness of A+B has
>>> helped, with
>>> >>> its > > reference to purchasing power, which was the other thing
>> we> >>> Directors
>>> >>> > > agonised over. Would our customers have the money in their
>>> >>> pockets
>>> >>> when
>>> >>> > > they chose our products ?
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > > This enlightenment came too late for me and mine I fear :-))
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > > Ken.
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>> >Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
> list>> > are>> at >http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> >>> >You're subscribed to this list with the email
>>> >>> johngrawson@hotmail.com
>>> >>> >For more information, visit
>>> > http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit>;>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------->
>>> > -
>>> >>> -
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> Shop 'til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------->>
>>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this>> list are
> at>> >>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> >>> You're subscribed to this list with the email dan@danmorin.com
>>> >>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------->>
>>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this>> list are
> at>> >>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> >>> You're subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>>> >>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90
>>> >>> Content-Type: text/html;
>>> >>> charset="iso-8859-1"
>>> >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>> >>>
>>> >>> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>> >>> <HTML><HEAD>
>>> >>> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>> >>> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>> >>> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2604"
>>> > name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
>>> >>> <BODY>
>>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006><FONT face=3DArial
>>> >>> color=3D#0000ff =
>>> >>> size=3D2>Before=20
>>> >>> making your own definition of inflation to fit your A+B
>>> model, here is =
>>> >>> the=20
>>> >>> definition of Inflation according to my Webster=20
>>> >>> Dictionary:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
>>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006><FONT face=3DArial
>>> >>> color=3D#0000ff =
>>> >>>
>>> >>> size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
>>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006>"An increase in the volume of
> =
>>> >>> money and=20
>>> >>> credit relative to available goods and services resulting in a =
>>> >>> continuing rise=20
>>> >>> in the general price level.</SPAN><SPAN =
>>> >>> class=3D703295401-13022006>"</SPAN></DIV>
>>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006></SPAN> </DIV>
>>> >>> <DIV><SPAN class=3D703295401-13022006><FONT face=3DArial
>>> >>> color=3D#0000ff =
>>> >>>
>>> >>> size=3D2>Source: Webster Collegial Dictionary,
>>> 1996.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
>>> >>> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>>> >>> style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
> #0000ff
>>> > 2px
>>> >>> =
>>> >>> solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>> >>> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
>>> >>> face=3DTahoma=20
>>> >>> size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> John G
>> Rawson=20> >>> [mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B>
> Sunday,
>>> February 12,
>>> > =
>>> >>> 2006=20
>>> >>> 3:02 PM<BR><B>To:</B> socialcredit@elistas.com<BR><B>Subject:</B>
>>> >>> Re:=20
>>> >>> [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and related=20
>>> >>> issues<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
>>> >>> <DIV>
>>> >>> <P>First, define inflation. Invariably, it is measured as =
>>> >>> "rising=20
>>> >>> prices", which therefore that is my, and I think our Party's,
>> => >>> definition=20
>>> >>> of it. It may be caused by "too much money ...", when it is
> =>> >>> "demand-pull=20
>>> >>> inflation", or by other factors (e.g. rising oil prices or higher
> =>> >>> interest=20
>>> >>> rates) when it is "cost-push inflation".</P>
>>> >>> <P>And, once again, the A+B model postulates as a corollary
>>> that we =
>>> >>> have=20
>>> >>> cost-push inflation more than demand-pull. "There are
> factors>> > in >> =
>>> >>> the=20
>>> >>> economy (B costs) that push the cost of goods above the level of =
>>> >>> consumer=20
>>> >>> purchasing power." So of course economists who deny the Douglas =
>>> >>> analkysis=20
>>> >>> don't understand where inflation is coming from.</P>
>>> >>> <P>Regards. <FONT color=3D#339933 size=3D4>John =
>>> >>> R.</FONT></P>
>>> >>> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
>>> >>> style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
> #a0c6e5
>>> >>> 2px =
>>> >>> solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20
>>> >>> style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif">
>>> >>> <HR color=3D#a0c6e5 SIZE=3D1>
>>> >>> From: <I>"W. McGunnigle" =
>>> >>> <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz></I><BR>Reply-To:=20
>>> >>> <I>socialcredit@elistas.com</I><BR>To:=20
>>> >>> <I><socialcredit@elistas.com></I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: =
>>> >>> [socialcredit]=20
>>> >>> Social Credit and Inflation--and related issues</I><BR>Date:
>>> > <I>Sun, >> =
>>> >>> 12 Feb=20
>>> >>> 2006 23:04:53 +1300</I><BR>>Hi Kenneth<BR>> I had not
>>> > really=20>> considered that question of "inflation"<BR>>as it
>>> > operated in our >> =
>>> >>>
>>> >>> economy, but was intrigued by your comment that<BR>>socalled
> =>> >>> "economic=20
>>> >>> experts" have never produced a really satisfactory
>>> answer<BR>>as
>>> > =>> to why=20
>>> >>> it happens. I find that, on reflection, all their=20
>>> >>> "explanations"<BR>>appear to be waffle with little or no =
>>> >>> substance to=20
>>> >>> back up their comments.<BR>>They are very good at
>>> manipulating =
>>> >>> figures,=20
>>> >>> but very short on statisdtical<BR>>analysis of those figures.
>> => >>> They always=20
>>> >>> have an excuse as to why their<BR>>forecasts are
>>> incorrect. My =
>>> >>> youngest=20
>>> >>> brother has a theory that inflation has<BR>>nothing to
>>> do with =
>>> >>> money or=20
>>> >>> product availablity, but is the direct result
>>> > of<BR>>propaganda=20>> perpetrated by banking organisations who
>>> > encourage =>> price<BR>>increases by=20
>>> >>> simply stating that inflation is increasing and prices =
>>> >>> must<BR>>increase=20
>>> >>> to compensate for it. They don't have to state any reasons,=20
>>> >>> but<BR>>simply create an atmosphere whereby price
>>> increases are =
>>> >>> accepted.=20
>>> >>> Inflation,<BR>>i.e. increased costs for goods and services, =
>>> >>> follows on as=20
>>> >>> a self-induced,<BR>>self-fullfilling prophesy. Effectively =
>>> >>> "inflation" is=20
>>> >>> a mind set rather<BR>>than an economic consequence. I
>>> cannot see
>>> > =>> how this=20
>>> >>> can be quantified, but I<BR>>can see the logic in his
>>> argument. =
>>> >>> It=20
>>> >>> certainly explains the "stagflation"<BR>>phenomena
>>> where costs =
>>> >>> still=20
>>> >>> increased despite falling industrial production<BR>>and =
>>> >>> increasing=20
>>> >>> unemployment.<BR>> Bill Mc Gunnigle<BR>>----- Original
>>> > Message >> =
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -----<BR>>From: "Kenneth Palmerton"=20
>>> >>> <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk><BR>>To:=20
>>> >>> <socialcredit@elistas.com><BR>>Cc:=20
>>> >>> <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk><BR>>Sent: Friday, =
>>> >>> February 10,=20
>>> >>> 2006 5:40 AM<BR>>Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social
>>> Credit and=20
>>> >>> Inflation--and related issues<BR>><BR>><BR>> > =
& |
Re: [socialcredit]
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