eListas - My Lists: socialcredit: Messages

You have more data than I on this aspect.

All I know is that the data Les Hunter produced, and which I graphed, showed conclusively that the inflationary pressures were not due to increasing money supply, but actually seemed to be directly related to its reduction.

Regards. John R.

From: "Peter Haines" <cymric@xtra.co.nz>
Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 13:37:09 +1300

Howdy John,

That was the days when 'stagflation' was the common expression. The boom of the mid 70s under labour died off after Muldoon doubled the borrowing when he came in in 1978 after promising in the campaign of the election to not go on borrowing like Labour did. Remember National had a scare rumour going around NZ that no one would lend NZ any more money we ( Labour) had over borrowed and the only place left to borrow from was the Soviet Union? The Reds were going to take over! Within six months of taking office Muldoon doubled the borrowing and the first port of call for money was Japan.

Peter H

----- Original Message -----

From: John G Rawson

To: socialcredit@elistas.com

Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 4:26 PM

Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation

In NZ we had a period around 1980's when the volume of money as a percentage of GDP was reduced drastically, ("velocity" just about doubled) and inflation went ahead strongly. But interest rates were high.

Regards. John R.

From: "Martin Hattersley" <hattersleyjm@interbaun.com>
Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 20:19:11 -0700
>Ken - Yes, I think it is true. I did a great deal of comparison of
>the money supply statistics, the consumer price index, and the
>Sector Accounts that describe flows of value between different parts
>of the economy, for Canada in the period 1926 to 1983. It was quite
>plain that cost of living increases were connected with both
>increases in the money supply, modified by whether these increases
>went into capital or consumer goods.
>
>There were two period of "price control". One in World War II, and
>the other in the 1970's under Trudeau. In each case, the Consumer
>Price Index behaved exactly as I have described.
>
>From my recollections of post-war England, the same game of "catch
>up" was played there after the War in the 1945-1955 period.
>
>By "price control", I am thinking of maintaining a stable price
>level by legislation rather than by monetary means. So examples of
>successful monetary experiments that kept the price level stable
>without such legislation are not really on point.
>
>Martin Hattersley
>1970-10123-99 St.,
>EDMONTON AB CANADA
>Phone (780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247
>e-mail: hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Palmerton"
><kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:43 AM
>Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>
>
>>In-Reply-To: <005f01c6329a$3a325f90$6b23e5cf@martinh4>
>>Hi Martin.
>>
>>You are right that this is the orthodox wisdom peddled by the
>>beneficiaries of the status quo, they would hardly say otherwise.
>>
>>But is it true ?
>>
>>Although I do not exactly know how we would prove this, one way or
>>the
>>other, but how about a bit of brainstorming on the possibility ?
>>
>>If we mean permanent control, how about the experience of ancient
>>Egypt ?
>>with its reliance upon a wheat based currency. Surviving for
>>something
>>like Three Thousand years.
>>
>>If we will accept shorter term control, how about the WW2
>>experience of
>>the UK ?The weekly meat ration was not declared by weight, but by
>>price.
>>That weekly allowance being maintained for six years.
>>
>>Though a black market in meat certainly existed, to my knowledge,
>>it was
>>NOT widespread. And the people themselves were the great whistle
>>blowers
>>where it was found to exist :-)
>>
>>My point is that rigid ideas do not survive careful examination.
>>
>>Ken.
>>
>>-------- Original Message --------
>>
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>>Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:42:20 -0700Message-ID:
>><005f01c6329a$3a325f90$6b23e5cf@martinh4>From: "Martin Hattersley"
>><hattersleyjm@interbaun.com>To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>References: <memo.792548@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:35:06 -0700
>>X-Priority: 3
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>>reply-type=originalSubject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of
>>inflation
>>X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
>>X-UIDL: _oIB.LWD9DB.mta02.mx
>>
>>My own researches lead me to believe that, although "wage and price
>>control" may limit both wages ane prices in the short run,
>>especially if
>>backed up by some patriotic salesmanship, they inevitably break
>>down as a
>>"black market" develops. At which time prices and wages rise to
>>what they
>>would have been, based on money supply factors, had the controls
>>never
>>been put in place.
>>
>>Martin Hattersley
>>1970-10123-99 St.,
>>EDMONTON AB CANADA
>>Phone (780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247
>>e-mail: hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Palmerton"
>><kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:40 AM
>>Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>
>>
>>>In-Reply-To: <00a801c63211$5e7fbb60$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
>>>Hi Wally.
>>>
>>>My apologies if I have provoked you into a monologue upon your
>>>feelings
>>>about the Soviet system. And though I agree with you about the
>>>downside
>>s,> that provocation was NOT my intention.
>>>
>>>I wished to challenge the orthodox assumption, that is universally
>>>taught
>>>in the west, that if there is an increase in the money supply,
>>>there HAS
>>>to be an increase in prices.
>>>
>>>I have pointed out Galbraith s job of price control in WW2 in the
>>>US,
>>>though to suggest it now would almost certainly give the Gurus of
>>>Wall
>>>Street apoplexy :-)))
>>>
>>>Our experience here in the UK at that time was that Keynes
>>>invented a
>>form> of compulsory saving, euphemistically called "Post War
>>Credits". In
>>which> the high wages of the workers left at home, and not
>>unproductive
>>and in> uniform, were syphoned off from immediate purchasing power.
>>>
>>>So that cast iron "law" that we are all taught is not so cast iron
>>>after
>>>all :-))
>>>
>>>Ken.
>>>
>>>-------- Original Message --------
>>>
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>>>15 Feb 2006 02:22:35 -0700 (MST)
>>>Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 02:22:40 -0700
>>>From: "Wallace M. Klinck" <wmklinck@shaw.ca>
>>>To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>>>Message-id: <00a801c63211$5e7fbb60$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
>>>MIME-version: 1.0
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>>>References: <memo.703877@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>><001301c631a3$69b2e5c0$bad44246@cc.shawcable.net>
>>>Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>>X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
>>>X-UIDL: _1cD.M5y8DB.mta02.mx
>>>
>>>Precisely, Joe.
>>>
>>>I was in Russia (and the Ukraine) around 1980 prior to the "fall"
>>>of
>>>"communism." They did not even have refrigeration. There were
>>>only two
>>>bookstores in Moscow--with nothing displayed (although McGraw-Hill
>>>textbooks were being unpacked in the back!) other than the works
>>>of Marx,
>>>Lenin, and other communist authors. We flew on AeroFlot--but even
>>>our
>>>guide, Luba, was white-knuckled and admitted she didn't like
>>>flying..
>>The> food in the hotel was most unsavoury--and, although the paper
>>menu in
>>the> dining room was decidedly "gourmet", an attempt to order
>>revealed that
>>>only about two dishes could actually be obtained--Stroganoff and
>>>chicken
>>>which latter was so tough it was impossible to cut! I suggested
>>>to our
>>>guide that it must have been run over by a Russian tank! Oddly,
>>>caviar
>>>(which I can't stand) was served at a special dinner! Any
>>>building in
>>the> country-side looked like a dilapidated relic from out of a
>>previous
>>>century. Of course, I was aware that the state elite had special
>>>accommodation, imported food, special medical care, etc. The
>>distribution> of income was actually much more unequal than in the
>>West--with the> existence of the Nomenklatura, a more or less
>>secret class
>>of> millionaires. Sombre middle-aged men on aircraft pretended to
>>be
>>reading> newspapers while their eyes were trained on the back of
>>the seat
>>in front,> listening to whatever they could hear of other
>>passengers'
>>talk. A friend> of mine, raised to be sympathetic to communism,
>>assisted
>>in the conduct of> guided tours from Canada to the U.S.S.R. He was
>>picked
>>up and> interrogated at nights by the K.G.B. and shown extensive
>>scrapbooks
>>>listing people in Northern Alberta and asked what were their
>>>politics and
>>>activities. Needless to say, my friend did an about face when
>>>confronted
>>>with this priority given to "security" and "intelligence" by the
>>>"supreme
>>>state." The socialist Utopia was seen to have "feet of clay."
>>>
>>>The point is, the scarcity and lack of elementary freedom
>>>characteristic
>>>of the Soviet "system" represented inefficiency in delivering
>>>abundance
>>>and freedom to the consuming (or better, "working" or "slaving")
>>>public.
>>>The command economic (and political) system allocated resources
>>>according
>>>to "state" priorities and was heavily skewed toward capital vs
>>>consumer
>>>goods--and was grossly inefficient from the standpoint of
>>>delivering
>>>consumer satisfaction. Money was plentiful because of the Soviet
>>>system
>>>of accountancy and controlled or administered prices, but
>>>motivational
>>and> organizational problems resulted in shortages of real
>>consumer goods
>>and> services. The Soviet "economy" was more a mechanism designed
>>for
>>"people> control" than a genuine production system.
>>>
>>>Social Credit recognizes that excess and unnecessary production of
>>capital> (and wasteful consumer) goods, merely to provide
>>purchasing-power
>>for> purchase of earlier production, and so to "keep the system
>>going", is
>>>inefficiency in terms of the Social Credit objective of a
>>>consumer-motivated economy. In both "capitalism" and "communism"
>>>an
>>>increasing and unwarranted
>>>emphasis is given to capital production--as a means of "people
>>>control."
>>>So although prices were controlled in a system of central
>>>state-administered "production" in communist U.S.S.R., this was
>>>merely a
>>>masking of inflation by arbitrary means. The price to be paid in
>>>real
>>>terms was scarcity, misdirection of resources and political
>>>tyranny.
>>>Thus, according to the Social Credit concept of "inflation" as a
>>>measure
>>>or reflection of inefficiency, the U.S.S.R. was characterized by a
>>>very
>>>high level of "inflation."
>>>
>>>The inefficiency and misdirection of resources toward wasteful and
>>>destructive (e.g. war) ends in the West is a measure of the real
>>>"inflation" in this part of the world. Because the consumer is
>>>charged
>>in> prices with capital depreciation but not credited with capital
>>>appreciation the consumer is robbed of the real benefits of modern
>>>technology by being allowed to access the results which flow from
>>>it only
>>>by increasing work. The citizenry is, thereby, denied the
>>>increased
>>>potential leisure by which to enjoy not only the actual, but also
>>>the
>>>potential, real abundance which does, and which might, flow from
>>>the ever
>>>modernizing productive system. All existing systems which employ
>>>tools to
>>>produce goods and services are "capitalist." They merely vary in
>>>degree
>>>of centralized control and administration. They all are firmly
>>>based
>>upon> the concept of work as the essential requisite and
>>justification for
>>>consumption--as I have previously noted, upon the unChristian (and
>>>un-Social Credit) notion of Salvation through Works, as opposed to
>>>the
>>>concept of Salvation through Grace.
>>>
>>>Social Credit is distributist and offers a very different
>>>dispensation,
>>>where access to wealth is increasingly based upon right by general
>>>inheritance and increasingly less upon industrial, commercial or
>>>institutional "work", now essentially forced upon the individual
>>>by the
>>>necessity of survival in the context of excess overall financial
>>>costs--"payable" only by means of exponentially expanding debt
>>>claims
>>>against the future.
>>>
>>>Wally
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Thomson"
>>><thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
>>>To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:15 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>>
>>>
>>>>Who wants to live in any of those Russian apartments and have a
>>lifelong>> diet of only one kind of bread?
>>>>
>>>>Joe
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>>>To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>>>Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>>>Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 12:56 PM
>>>>Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In-Reply-To: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHIEFGGIAB.dan@danmorin.com>
>>>>>Hi Dan.
>>>>>
>>>>>If Webster is to be elevated to the rank of biblical truth, then
>>>>>maybe
>>>>>you
>>>>>can offer me an explanation of why it was that in the USSR
>>>>>between 1917
>>>>>and 1970 the price of a loaf of bread, and the rent of a Moscow
>>>>>flat
>>did>>> not increase.
>>>>>
>>>>>Despite the working population having huge amounts of
>>>>>un-spendable
>>>money>> in their bank accounts.
>>>>>
>>>>>This was a classic case of increasing money supply, with
>>>>>inadequate
>>>goods>> for sale.
>>>>>
>>>>>Why no price rise ?
>>>>>
>>>>>Ken.
>>>>>
>>>>>-------- Original Message --------
>>>>>
>>>>>X-Envelope-From:
>>>>>socialcredit-return-3390-kenpalmerton=cix.co.uk@elistas.comReceived:
>>>from>> q4.elistas.net (q4.elistas.net [216.66.20.202]) by
>>>mta02.mx.cix.co.uk>> (8.13.4/CIX/8.13.4) with SMTP id
>>>k1D3KbTF030724
>>>>> for <kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk>; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 03:20:37
>>>>>GMT
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>>>>>04:30:40 +0100
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>>>>> by q4.elistas.net with EMQP; 13 Feb 2006 04:30:40 +0100
>>>>>Mailing-List: socialcredit@elistas.com
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>>+0100>>> Received: from unknown (HELO fep3.cogeco.net)
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>>>>> by fep3.cogeco.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F8D019F10
>>>>> for <socialcredit@elistas.com>; Sun, 12 Feb 2006
>>>>>20:54:20 -0500
>>>>>(EST)From: "Daniel Morin" <dan@danmorin.com>
>>>>>To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>>>>Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 21:01:58 -0500
>>>>>Message-ID: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHIEFGGIAB.dan@danmorin.com>
>>>>>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>>>>>In-Reply-To: <BAY21-F27F9B18DD2F90F8C2C9A6BD040@phx.gbl>
>>>>>Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Definition of inflation
>>>>>X-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
>>>>>X-UIDL: _egH.Hs_7DB.mta02.mx
>>>>>
>>>>>------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90
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>>>>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>>
>>>>>Before making your own definition of inflation to fit your A+B
>>>>>model,
>>>>>here
>>>>>is the definition of Inflation according to my Webster
>>>>>Dictionary:
>>>>>
>>>>>"An increase in the volume of money and credit relative to
>>>>>available
>>>>>goods
>>>>>and services resulting in a continuing rise in the general price
>>level.">>>
>>>>>Source: Webster Collegial Dictionary, 1996.
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: John G Rawson [mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:02 PM
>>>>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and
>>>>>related
>>>>>issues
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> First, define inflation. Invariably, it is measured as
>>>>>"rising
>>>>>prices",
>>>>>which therefore that is my, and I think our Party's, definition
>>>>>of it.
>>>>>It
>>>>>may be caused by "too much money ...", when it is "demand-pull
>>>>>inflation",
>>>>>or by other factors (e.g. rising oil prices or higher interest
>>>>>rates)
>>>>>when
>>>>>it is "cost-push inflation".
>>>>>
>>>>> And, once again, the A+B model postulates as a corollary that
>>>>>we have
>>>>>cost-push inflation more than demand-pull. "There are factors
>>>>>in the
>>>>>economy (B costs) that push the cost of goods above the level of
>>>consumer>> purchasing power." So of course economists who deny the
>>Douglas> analkysis>> don't understand where inflation is coming
>>from.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards. John R.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------->
>>>-
>>>>>-
>>>>> From: "W. McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
>>>>> Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>>>>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and
>>>>>Inflation--and
>>related>>> issues
>>>>> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 23:04:53 +1300
>>>>> >Hi Kenneth
>>>>> > I had not really considered that question of "inflation"
>>>>> >as it operated in our economy, but was intrigued by your
>>>>>comment
>>>>>that
>>>>> >socalled "economic experts" have never produced a really
>>>>>satisfactory
>>>>>answer
>>>>> >as to why it happens. I find that, on reflection, all
>>>>>their
>>>>>"explanations"
>>>>> >appear to be waffle with little or no substance to back up
>>>>>their
>>>>>comments.
>>>>> >They are very good at manipulating figures, but very short
>>>>>on
>>>>>statisdtical
>>>>> >analysis of those figures. They always have an excuse as
>>>>>to why
>>>>>their
>>>>> >forecasts are incorrect. My youngest brother has a theory
>>>>>that
>>>>>inflation has
>>>>> >nothing to do with money or product availablity, but is
>>>>>the direct
>>>>>result of
>>>>> >propaganda perpetrated by banking organisations who
>>>>>encourage
>>price>>> >increases by simply stating that inflation is
>>increasing and
>>prices>>> must
>>>>> >increase to compensate for it. They don't have to state
>>>>>any
>>>reasons,>> but
>>>>> >simply create an atmosphere whereby price increases are
>>>>>accepted.
>>>>>Inflation,
>>>>> >i.e. increased costs for goods and services, follows on as
>>>>>a
>>>>>self-induced,
>>>>> >self-fullfilling prophesy. Effectively "inflation" is a
>>>>>mind set
>>>>>rather >than an economic consequence. I cannot see how this
>>>>>can be
>>>>>quantified,but I
>>>>> >can see the logic in his argument. It certainly explains
>>>>>the
>>>>>"stagflation"
>>>>> >phenomena where costs still increased despite falling
>>>>>industrial
>>>>>production
>>>>> >and increasing unemployment.
>>>>> > Bill Mc Gunnigle
>>>>> >----- Original Message -----
>>>>> >From: "Kenneth Palmerton"
>>>>><kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>>>> >To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>>>> >Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>>>>> >Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 5:40 AM
>>>>> >Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and
>>>>>Inflation--and
>>>related>> issues
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > > In-Reply-To:
>>>>><00aa01c62844$b0b3d320$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny>
>>>>> > > Hi Wallace.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > For a very long time I have been of the opinion that
>>>>>economists
>>>>>do
>>>>>NOT
>>>>> > > understand "inflation". Even their attempts to describe
>>>>>it, and
>>>>>offer a
>>>>> > > definition leave me much less than convinced of their
>>>competence.>> > >
>>>>> > > They seem to offer no logical explanation of why prices
>>>>>rise.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > I have sat with fellow directors of a manufacturing
>>>>>company
>>>>>around
>>>>>our
>>>>> > > board room table looking at each other wondering if our
>>>>competitors
>>>>>would
>>>>> > > let us get away with a price rise of our products.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > This was not so much an exercise in maximising our
>>>>>profits, as
>>>>>trying
>>>>> > > desperately to cover our costs. This I believe is a
>>>>>common
>>>>>scenario, > > common to most companies in mature markets.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Coming to understand later the rightness of A+B has
>>>>>helped,
>>with>>> its > > reference to purchasing power, which was the
>>other
>>thing we>>> Directors
>>>>> > > agonised over. Would our customers have the money in
>>>>>their
>>>>>pockets
>>>>>when
>>>>> > > they chose our products ?
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > This enlightenment came too late for me and mine I fear
>>>>>:-))
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Ken.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> >Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of
>>>>>this list
>>>are>> at >http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>>> >You're subscribed to this list with the email
>>>>>johngrawson@hotmail.com
>>>>> >For more information, visit
>>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------->
>>>-
>>>>>-
>>>>>--
>>>>> Shop 'til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping
>>>>>
>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>>>>are at
>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>>>You're subscribed to this list with the email dan@danmorin.com
>>>>>For more information, visit
>>>>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>>>>are at
>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>>>You're subscribed to this list with the email
>>>>>kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>>>>>For more information, visit
>>>>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>>>
>>>>>------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90
>>>>>Content-Type: text/html;
>>>>> charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>>>>
>>>>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>>>><HTML><HEAD>
>>>>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>>>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>>>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2604"
>>>name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
>>>>><BODY>
>>>>><DIV>>>>>color=3D#0000ff =
>>>>>size=3D2>Before=20
>>>>>making your own definition of inflation to fit your A+B model,
>>>>>here is
>>=>>> the=20
>>>>>definition of Inflation according to my Webster=20
>>>>>Dictionary:</DIV>
>>>>><DIV>>>>>color=3D#0000ff =
>>>>>
>>>>>size=3D2> </DIV>
>>>>><DIV>"An increase in the volume
>>>>>of =
>>>>>money and=20
>>>>>credit relative to available goods and services resulting in a =
>>>>>continuing rise=20
>>>>>in the general price level.>>>>class=3D703295401-13022006>"</DIV>
>>>>><DIV> </DIV>
>>>>><DIV>>>>>color=3D#0000ff =
>>>>>
>>>>>size=3D2>Source: Webster Collegial Dictionary,
>>1996.</DIV>>>> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>>>>>style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
>>>>>#0000ff
>>>2px
>>>>>=
>>>>>solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>>>> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr
>>>>>align=3Dleft>>>>>face=3DTahoma=20
>>>>> size=3D2>-----Original Message----- From: John G
>>>>>Rawson=20
>>>>> [mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday,
>>>>>February 12,
>>>=
>>>>>2006=20
>>>>> 3:02 PM To:
>>>>>socialcredit@elistas.com Subject:
>>>>>Re:=20
>>>>> [socialcredit] Social Credit and Inflation--and related=20
>>>>> issues </DIV>
>>>>> <DIV>
>>>>> First, define inflation.  Invariably, it is measured
>>>>>as =
>>>>>"rising=20
>>>>> prices", which therefore that is my, and I think our
>>>>>Party's, =
>>>>>definition=20
>>>>> of it.  It may be caused by "too much money ...", when
>>>>>it is =
>>>>>"demand-pull=20
>>>>> inflation", or by other factors (e.g. rising oil prices or
>>>>>higher =
>>>>>interest=20
>>>>> rates) when it is "cost-push inflation".
>>>>> And, once again, the A+B model postulates as a corollary
>>>>>that we =
>>>>>have=20
>>>>> cost-push inflation more than demand-pull.  "There are
>>>>>factors
>>>in >> =
>>>>>the=20
>>>>> economy (B costs) that push the cost of goods above the level
>>>>>of =
>>>>>consumer=20
>>>>> purchasing power." So of course economists who deny the
>>>>>Douglas =
>>>>>analkysis=20
>>>>> don't understand where inflation is coming from.
>>>>> Regards.   John =
>>>>>R.
>>>>> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
>>>>> style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
>>>>>#a0c6e5
>>>>>2px =
>>>>>solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20
>>>>> style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif">
>>>>> <HR color=3D#a0c6e5 SIZE=3D1>
>>>>> From: "W. McGunnigle" =
>>>>><wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz> Reply-To:=20
>>>>> socialcredit@elistas.com To:=20
>>>>> <socialcredit@elistas.com> Subject: Re:
>>>>>=
>>>>>[socialcredit]=20
>>>>> Social Credit and Inflation--and related
>>>>>issues Date:
>>>Sun, >> =
>>>>>12 Feb=20
>>>>> 2006 23:04:53 +1300 >Hi Kenneth > I had not
>>>really=20>> considered that question of "inflation" >as
>>>it
>>>operated in our >> =
>>>>>
>>>>> economy, but was intrigued by your comment
>>>>>that >socalled =
>>>>>"economic=20
>>>>> experts" have never produced a really satisfactory
>>>>>answer >as
>>>=>> to why=20
>>>>> it happens. I find that, on reflection, all their=20
>>>>> "explanations" >appear to be waffle with little or no
>>>>>=
>>>>>substance to=20
>>>>> back up their comments. >They are very good at
>>>>>manipulating =
>>>>>figures,=20
>>>>> but very short on statisdtical >analysis of those
>>>>>figures. =
>>>>>They always=20
>>>>> have an excuse as to why their >forecasts are
>>>>>incorrect. My =
>>>>>youngest=20
>>>>> brother has a theory that inflation has >nothing to
>>>>>do with =
>>>>>money or=20
>>>>> product availablity, but is the direct result
>>>of >propaganda=20>> perpetrated by banking organisations
>>>who
>>>encourage =>> price >increases by=20
>>>>> simply stating that inflation is increasing and prices =
>>>>>must >increase=20
>>>>> to compensate for it. They don't have to state any
>>>>>reasons,=20
>>>>> but >simply create an atmosphere whereby price
>>>>>increases are
>>=>>> accepted.=20
>>>>> Inflation, >i.e. increased costs for goods and
>>>>>services, =
>>>>>follows on as=20
>>>>> a self-induced, >self-fullfilling prophesy.
>>>>>Effectively =
>>>>>"inflation" is=20
>>>>> a mind set rather >than an economic consequence. I
>>>>>cannot see
>>>=>> how this=20
>>>>> can be quantified, but I >can see the logic in his
>>>>>argument.
>>=>>> It=20
>>>>> certainly explains the "stagflation" >phenomena where
>>>>>costs =
>>>>>still=20
>>>>> increased despite falling industrial production >and
>>>>>=
>>>>>increasing=20
>>>>> unemployment. > Bill Mc Gunnigle >-----
>>>>>Original
>>>Message >> =
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- >From: "Kenneth Palmerton"=20
>>>>> <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk> >To:=20
>>>>> <socialcredit@elistas.com> >Cc:=20
>>>>> <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk> >Sent:
>>>>>Friday, =
>>>>>February 10,=20
>>>>> 2006 5:40 AM >Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social
>>>>>Credit
>>and=20>>> Inflation--and related issues > > >
>>> =
>>>>>In-Reply-To:=20
>>>>>
>>>>><00aa01c62844$b0b3d320$6400a8c0@cdv73pbgpo6eny> >
>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>Hi=20
>>>>> Wallace. > > > > For a very long time I
>>>>>have been
>>>=>> of the=20
>>>>> opinion that economists do NOT > > understand
>>>>>"inflation".
>>>=>> Even=20
>>>>> their attempts to describe it, and offer a > >
>>>>>definition
>>=>>> leave me=20
>>>>> much less than convinced of their competence. >
>>>>>> >
>>=>>> > They=20
>>>>> seem to offer no logical explanation of why prices
>>>>>rise. >=20
>>>>> > > > I have sat with fellow directors of a =
>>>>>manufacturing=20
>>>>> company around our > > board room table looking at
>>>>>each =
>>>>>other=20
>>>>> wondering if our competitors would > > let us get
>>>>>away
>>>with >> =
>>>>>a price=20
>>>>> rise of our products. > > > > This was
>>>>>not so
>>>much >> =
>>>>>an=20
>>>>> exercise in maximising our profits, as trying > >
>>>>>=
>>>>>desperately to=20
>>>>> cover our costs. This I believe is a common
>>>>>scenario, > >
>>=>>> common to=20
>>>>> most companies in mature markets. > > > >
>>>>>Coming
>>=>>> to=20
>>>>> understand later the rightness of A+B has helped, with
>>>>>its >
>>=>>> >=20
>>>>> reference to purchasing power, which was the other thing
>>>>>we=20
>>>>> Directors > > agonised over. Would our customers
>>>>>have the
>>=>>> money in=20
>>>>> their pockets when > > they chose our products
>>? >=20>>> > > > This enlightenment came too
>>late for
>>me and mine> I >> =
>>>>>fear=20
>>>>> :-)) > > > > Ken. > > >=20
>>>>> =
>>>>>
>>>
>>> > > >---------------------------------------------=>
>>>>------------------------ >Some=20
>>>>> introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>>>>are=20
>>>>>
>>>at >http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium >You're
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>> subscribed to this list with the email =
>>>>>johngrawson@hotmail.com >For=20
>>>>> more information, visit=20
>>>>> =
>>>>>
>>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> >>>>=
>>>>>=20
>>>>> clear=3Dall>
>>>>> <HR>
>>>>> Shop =91til you drop at <A =
>>>>>href=3D"http://g.msn.com/8HMAENNZ/2743??PS=3D47575"=20
>>>>> target=3D_top>XtraMSN Shopping</A>=20
>>>>> =
>>>>>
>>>
>><PRE>-----------------------------------------------------------------=>
>>>>----
>>>>>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>>>>are at
>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>>>You're subscribed to this list with the email dan@danmorin.com
>>>>>For more information, visit
>>>>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>>></PRE>
>>>>> </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>><pre>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>--
>>>>>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>>>>are at
>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>>>You're subscribed to this list with the email
>>>>>kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>>>>>For more information, visit
>>>>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>>></pre>
>>>>>
>>>>>------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C63017.90412F90--
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>>>are at
>>>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>>You're subscribed to this list with the email wmklinck@shaw.ca
>>>>For more information, visit
>>>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.8/260 - Release Date:
>>2/14/2006>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>>are at
>>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>You're subscribed to this list with the email
>>>kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>>>For more information, visit
>>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.8/260 - Release Date:
>>14/02/2006>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
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>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.8/260 - Release Date:
>>14/02/2006
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>are at
>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>You're subscribed to this list with the email
>>kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>>For more information, visit
>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
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>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.8/260 - Release Date:
>>14/02/2006
>>
>
>
>
>--
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>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.8/260 - Release Date:
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>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
>at
>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>You're subscribed to this list with the email
>johngrawson@hotmail.com
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