eListas - My Lists: socialcredit: Messages

Gallipoli failed because of the vainglorious attempt by Churchill to force the straits with the Fleet, which alerted the Turks to the next stage.

The failure was helped by landing the Anzacs in the wrong place, and later because the British landing at Suvla was treated like a Sunday school picnic and not pushed forward.

And perhaps most of all because the Turks, while not very determined later, in Sinai and Palestine outside their home territory, fought like tigers on their own land.

But let's not get any further away from the subjects under discussion. We have both been trespassing no little.

Regards. John R.

From: "Peter Haines" <cymric@xtra.co.nz>
Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 19:50:36 +1300

Howdy John R,

The information re nocturnal plundering of British army storage dumps was in a non-fiction book on the Nth African campaign.

Gallipoli failed in the previous war because the Royal Navy, under Winston C failed to bombard the Turkish defences before the offensive. If I remember correctly they failed to arrive in time. An interesting aside to this is that the Western Powers had assigned Constantinople to Russia should the Western forces take it, ie if they had of achieved their goal at Gallipoli. I have no doubt that certain key persons knew of the 'Bolshevik' revolution to come a year or so later.

Yes, its a pity the first Labour govt has been lost to history that doesnt get repeated. However one needs to be realistic about the 'guns' of the bankers over politics and every 'party' that hopes to get control of the treasury benches needs a plan A and a plan B for when the real fight begins ( after winning an election), because if you dont have the people with you, you are soon rendered into dog meat, or never produce the real thing which then becomes the image of S.C.to more than one generation.

I have a friend who attended a Helen Clark campaign meeting about four years ago in Auckland. On the housing issue he raised the point that Labour had the best housing policy and got Clarks attention and then when he pushed the point referring to the first Labour govt she then said "Oh that was silly social credit ideas".

Cheers,

Peter H

----- Original Message -----

From: John G Rawson

To: socialcredit@elistas.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 12:45 PM

Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control

That is not a story I have heard from returned servicemen before.

I know our (then) excellent Government insisted that our Division was well equipped, and I know that it could not be committed without referral to Wellington. That was undoubtedly a reaction to the slaughter of the Auckland Infantry Regiment on Gallipoli by incompetent pommy officers and various similar incidents, there and in France.

I suggest that the whole approach of the first Labour government was humane, and that the proportion of monetary reformers and other moral leaders in it had a lot to do with that. Pity they now seem to have lost it.

Regards. John R.

From: "Peter Haines" <cymric@xtra.co.nz>
Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 21:59:06 +1300

Howdy John,

RE Kiwi forces in Nth Africa. We compensated our lack of equipment as the Aussies did by night time raids into British supply dumps. The only concern that there could have been on discovery at first, i would imagine, would have been as to whether it was Arabs. But it is hardly likely that the top brass Poms would make an issue and offend their compatriot officers by raising it. But no doubt a word of humour would have been passed under the influence on certain occasions in the Officers Mess between host and visitors.

I wouldnt expect these raids involved lifting 25 pounders or the like over the fence in the dark though.

Peter H

----- Original Message -----

From: John G Rawson

To: socialcredit@elistas.com

Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:40 AM

Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control

Thanks. Otto Niemeyer. The threats were, apparently, a year or two before the war, that if the policy was continued we would sell no more lamb in Britain. Some believe also that the British fleet would appearr in Wellington harbour, but I choose to discount that. As it turned out, wartime conditions let us sell every bit of production we could, later mainly to the west coast of the US, who sent their food from their other side. I believe we finished the period with no overseas public debt at all. And, of course, in the mean time our Division in the Middle East was equipped as well as any other in the war with its own artillery and light cavalry. And of course our airmen in the Battle of Britain used British arms. Probably got a good deal in the Pacific, too, particularly when the Yanks discovered they needed our trained navigators. Amazing what is available when politicians are able to say "Sorry, this is necessary". Pity we can't get a wider definition of what is necessary, to feed starving people in peacetime.

Probably like yours, our governments love and laud "overseas investment" in the country. What better? It helps with balance of payments in the short term and gives them grounds to criticise their successors as they become more difficult in future.

Yes, but the Central Banks are there to be used if we get a govewrnment with the guts to do it. But didn't Douglas warn that nationalisation of the banks could lead to "bankisation of the nation"?

And I can not recall one new Prime Minister of this country that hasn't done an overseas trip within months of taking office, including talks with the IMF etc. They have to get their orders.

Regards. John R.

From: kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Kenneth Palmerton)
Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
CC: kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 12:24 +0000 (GMT)
>In-Reply-To: <BAY21-F220A5FEE6C035CEAF72107BDF00@phx.gbl>
>Thank you John for that.
>
>So you say that now not only are you exporting your wealth, you are
>sending the money profits out of the community as well :-(((
>
>You speak of the involvement of Montagu Norman in the downfall of your
>federal Bank. I did know that he had sent his No. Two henchman, Nemeyer ?
>to the antipodes in panic immediately the SoCreds took power in Alberta in
>1935. But little leaked out as to what he had to say, and to whom.
>
>By the way. It is a grave mistake to think of the bank of england as
>Government controlled. It is as it has always been, a PRIVATE bank, like
>the US federal reserve. The "nationalisation" at the end of WW2 was a
>SHAM. A reading of the Act of Parliament concerned makes this VERY clear.
>
>Ken.
>
>
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>
>X-Envelope-From:
>socialcredit-return-3513-kenpalmerton=cix.co.uk@elistas.comReceived: from
>q53.elistas.net (q53.elistas.net [216.66.20.25]) by
>mta02.mx.cix.co.uk (8.13.4/CIX/8.13.4) with SMTP id k1PAx3pL029271
>for <kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk>; Sat, 25 Feb 2006 10:59:03 GMTReceived:
>(qmail 18775 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2006 12:52:26 +0100Received:
>from mail.e-listas.com (66.7.164.206) by q5.elistas.net with EMQP; 25 Feb
>2006 12:52:26 +0100Mailing-List: socialcredit@elistas.com
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post: <mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com>
>Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>List-Help: <mailto:socialcredit-help@elistas.com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:socialcredit-unsubscribe@elistas.com>
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:socialcredit-subscribe@elistas.com>
>Delivered-To: list socialcredit@elistas.com
>Delivered-To: moderator for socialcredit@elistas.com
>Received: (qmail 24351 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2006 03:41:20 +0100
>Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.233.111)
> by mail.egrupos.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2006 03:41:20 +0100
>Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
> Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:53:00 -0800
>Message-ID: <BAY21-F220A5FEE6C035CEAF72107BDF00@phx.gbl>
>Received: from 210.55.84.56 by by21fd.bay21.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;
> Sat, 25 Feb 2006 02:52:57 GMT
>X-Originating-IP: [210.55.84.56]
>X-Originating-Email: [johngrawson@hotmail.com]
>X-Sender: johngrawson@hotmail.com
>In-Reply-To: <memo.165886@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>From: "John G Rawson" <johngrawson@hotmail.com>
>To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 02:52:57 +0000
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/html; format=flowed
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Feb 2006 02:53:00.0321 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[96C8C910:01C639B6]Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Inflation and
>Price ControlX-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
>X-UIDL: _7JH.5hDAEB.mta02.mx
>
><html><div style='background-color:'>Thanks, Ken.  I'll try to
>work through the points.We once had some subsidies for agriculture,
>but now our farmers are completely not subsidised in any way.  They
>and our climate (not our soils) are efficient enough to send food to the
>other side of the world and compete.  I might add that there have
>been big changes over the years.  When our WW2 servicemen were being
>settled, a one-man dairy uinit was 35 cows.  Now farms with hundreds
>and even into the thousands are not uncommon. And corporatisation is
>coming in.Our cooperative Dairy Board was financed by the Reserve
>bank at 1%, as were some infrastructure projects. We led the world out of
>the slump, in our small way. The Labour Party was scared out of this
>sort of thing by Montagu Norman, head of the Bank of England, a few years
>pre-war. The first Labour Govt. had, I am told, 14 monetary reformers (not
>all SC) in its original caucus of about 50.  When they ratted on
>these ideas there was a split and the socialist wing took over. One of
>their former Ministers ran for S.C. in an Auckland suburb in our early
>days.  The Dairy Board has now become Fonterra, big by world
>standards, but still a cooperative, despite the New Right Labour govt. of
>the 80's doing everything it could to destroy coops. Some of us feel it is
>moving towards saleability of shares and loss of its status. 
>Originally farmers were allocated shares according to their
>production.  Now young sharemilkers hoping to graduate to independent
>farming have to buy shares as well as a farm.Like Australia, Canada
>and recently the UK, our R. Bank is state-owned, but of course it works
>for the financial institutions, not the Govt.  The present Leader of
>the National Party, opposing the Labout Govt., is an ex head of the R
>B.  Sincere, nice guy too.The "export or die" syndrome is a
>natural extension of the shortage of purchasing power postulated by
>Douglas. Yes, NZ was hurt when Britain turned her back on the Commonwealth
>and went into the EU, and a somewhat bitter about it after our war effort
>on her behalf, possibly greater per capita than any other nation. 
>But the greatest drain on our resources now seems to be the remittance of
>profits overseas by our almost totally foreign-owned banking system. 
>Needless to say, the propaganda is all aimed at making the populace feel
>guilty about buying too much, which is a standard ploy by those who wish
>to control and obscure.Regards.    color=#339933 size=4>John R.<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT:
>5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT:
>0px"><HR
>color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1>From: kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Kenneth
>Palmerton) Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com To:
>socialcredit@elistas.com CC:
>kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk Subject: Re: [socialcredit]
>Inflation and Price Control Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:50 +0000
>(GMT) >In-Reply-To:
><BAY21-F14EFDA8409AA15B3ABBBC1BDF20@phx.gbl> >Hi
>John. > >I have always been interested in the NZ goings on.
>And have regretted not >knowing more. > >You tell me
>that your farmers are not subsidised. Now I know that the very >word
>raises hackles, and much misunderstanding amongst warring groups,
>but >will you tell me what YOU mean by it please. > >I
>must tell you that I do not like the "Export or die" dogma. I think
>that >in general it denies ordinary people the fruits of their
>labours. The idea >that we are all persuaded to accept that this is
>how we live is nonsense. >It is mathematically impossible for all to
>achieve "a positive balance of >trade". And I think that NZ in
>particular has suffered from this delusion. >Particularly when the
>EU persuaded your biggest market for butter and meat >to suddenly
>buy elsewhere. > >I think the hurt is still felt in NZ, is it
>not? > >One bit of NZ history particularly interests me. And
>maybe you have >something to add. As I understand it NZ once had a
>central bank that >actually was under State control. Like the Aussi
>Commonwealth Bank. And >that this bank provided funds at half
>percent interest to fund the >creation of the dairy industry. What
>happened to this fabulous idea
>? > >Ken. > >-------- Original Message
>-------- > >X-Envelope-From: >socialcredit-return-3500-ke
>npalmerton=cix.co.uk@elistas.comReceived: from >q53.elistas.net
>(q53.elistas.net [216.66.20.25]) by >mta04.mx.cix.co.uk
>(8.13.4/CIX/8.13.4) with SMTP id k1O47kov021453 >for
><kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk>; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 04:07:47
>GMTReceived: >(qmail 1789 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006
>06:00:36 +0100Received: >from mail.e-listas.com (66.7.164.206) by
>q5.elistas.net with EMQP; 24 Feb >2006 06:00:36 +0100Mailing-List:
>socialcredit@elistas.com >X-No-Archive: yes >List-Post:
><mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com> >Reply-To:
>socialcredit@elistas.com >List-Help:
><mailto:socialcredit-help@elistas.com> >List-Unsubscribe:
><mailto:socialcredit-unsubscribe@elistas.com> >List-Subscribe:
><mailto:socialcredit-subscribe@elistas.com> >Delivered-To:
>list socialcredit@elistas.com >Delivered-To: moderator for
>socialcredit@elistas.com >Received: (qmail 13211 invoked from
>network); 24 Feb 2006 00:37:40 +0100 >Received: from unknown (HELO
>hotmail.com) (65.54.233.103) > by mail.egrupos.com with SMTP; 24 Feb
>2006 00:37:40 +0100 >Received: from mail pickup service by
>hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; > Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:49:15
>-0800 >Message-ID:
><BAY21-F14EFDA8409AA15B3ABBBC1BDF20@phx.gbl> >Received: from
>210.54.108.171 by by21fd.bay21.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; > Thu, 23
>Feb 2006 23:49:11 GMT >X-Originating-IP:
>[210.54.108.171] >X-Originating-Email:
>[johngrawson@hotmail.com] >X-Sender:
>johngrawson@hotmail.com >In-Reply-To:
><memo.124898@cix.compulink.co.uk> >From: "John G Rawson"
><johngrawson@hotmail.com> >To:
>socialcredit@elistas.com >Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 23:49:11
>+0000 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/html;
>format=flowed >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Feb 2006 23:49:15.0928
>(UTC) >FILETIME=[C1522980:01C638D3]Subject: Re: [socialcredit]
>Inflation and >Price ControlX-Envelope-To:
>kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk >X-UIDL:
>_lPF.Uao_DB.mta04.mx > ><html><div
>style='background-color:'>Thanks.&nbsp; I do think we are
>on >the same wavelength.I hadn't realised the
>control factor, but had >realised that American production, geared
>for war, would have collapsed >without some grand plan like
>that.And I was referring to NZ being >able to
>export meat to the US because of their overspending.&nbsp; And
>in >passing, our farmers are not
>subsidised.Regards.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt
>;John
>R.<BLOCKQUOTE >style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px;
>MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 2px >solid; MARGIN-RIGHT:
>0px">FONT-FAMILY: >tahoma,sans-serif"><HR color=#a0c6e5
>SIZE=1> >From: kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk
>(Kenneth >Palmerton) Reply-To:
>socialcredit@elistas.com To: >so
>cialcredit@elistas.com CC: >kenpalmerton@
>cix.compulink.co.uk Subject: Re:
>[socialcredit] >Inflation and Price Control Date:
>Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:38
>+0000 >(GMT) &gt;In-Reply-To: >&lt;B
>AY21-F194E0911053FE0D8A1FC5FBDFD0@phx.gbl&gt; &gt;Hi &g
>t;John. &gt; &gt;If we are to achieve anything
>like a full >understanding of the sort of &gt;changes
>we propose to the monetary >order, we need, I think, to be
>careful &gt;about the examples we quote, >and the
>conclusions we draw from them. &gt; &gt;Take for
>instance >your Two references to the Marshal Plan, and the
>US &gt;export
>of >meat. &gt; &gt;Read any standard text
>about the Marshal plan, and we >will be faced
>with &gt;statements about it being the salvation
>western >Europe. &gt; &gt;It was nothing
>of the sort. It was the imposition >of control by
>the &gt;existing financial order, preventing
>the >exhausted nations from creating &gt;what was
>needed from their own >facilities. It was the next stage
>of &gt;imperialism. And it set back >much needed
>advances in understanding of the &gt;realities of aid
>and >international trade. &gt; &gt;If this
>offends, May I suggest you >study the plans taken to Bretton
>Woods, &gt;and >rejected. &gt; &am
>p;gt;As for exports of meat from the US. Other than >for emergency
>aid at times &gt;of true famine, such exports do
>great >harm to the recipient. This
>drains &gt;purchasing power from local >producers, and
>retards the very desirable self &gt;sufficiency
>that >should be the
>aim. &gt; &gt;International trade should be
>confined >to true surpluses. Or for items &gt;that are
>not, or cannot be produced >or secured
>locally. &gt; &gt;Ken. &gt;<BR&gt
>;&gt;--------
>Original >Message >-------- &gt; &gt;
>X-Envelope-From: &gt;socialcredit-return-3460-ke >npalme
>rton=cix.co.uk@elistas.comReceived:
>from &gt;q53.elistas.net >(q53.elistas.net
>[216.66.20.25])
>by &gt;mta02.mx.cix.co.uk >(8.13.4/CIX/8.13.4) with
>SMTP id k1MCJTtJ009383 &gt;
>for >&lt;kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk&gt;; Wed, 22 Feb 2006
>12:19:30 >GMT &gt;Received: (qmail 5588 invoked from
>network); 22 Feb 2006 >14:12:07 +0100 &gt;Received:
>from mail.e-listas.com >(66.7.164.206) &gt; by
>q5.elistas.net with EMQP; 22 Feb 2006
>14:12:07 >+0100 &gt;Mailing-List:
>socialcredit@elistas.com &gt;X-No-Archive: >yes<BR&gt
>;&gt;List-Post: >&lt;mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com&gt;&
>lt;BR>&gt;Reply-To: >socialcredit@elistas.com &gt
>;List-Help: >&lt;mailto:socialcredit-help@elistas.com&gt;<
>BR>&gt;List-Unsubscribe: >&lt;mailto:socialcredit-unsubscr
>ibe@elistas.com&gt; &gt;List-Subscribe: >&lt;mai
>lto:socialcredit-subscribe@elistas.com&gt; &gt;Delivered-T
>o: >list socialcredit@elistas.com &gt;Delivered-To:
>moderator for >socialcredit@elistas.com &gt;Received:
>(qmail 27769 invoked from >network); 22 Feb 2006 04:14:30
>+0100 &gt;Received: from unknown (HELO >hotmail.com)
>(65.54.233.108) &gt; by mail.egrupos.com with SMTP; 22
>Feb >2006 04:14:30 +0100 &gt;Received: from mail pickup
>service by >hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; &gt;
>Tue, 21 Feb 2006
>19:25:57 >-0800 &gt;Message-ID: >&lt;BAY21-F19
>4E0911053FE0D8A1FC5FBDFD0@phx.gbl&gt; &gt;Received:
>from >210.54.103.103 by by21fd.bay21.hotmail.msn.com with
>HTTP; &gt; Wed, 22 >Feb 2006 03:25:56
>GMT &gt;X-Originating-IP: >[210.54.103.103] &am
>p;gt;X-Originating-Email: >[johngrawson@hotmail.com] &gt
>;X-Sender: >johngrawson@hotmail.com &gt;In-Reply-To: 
>>&lt;000c01c6373b$dadf4020$056437d2@computer&gt; &g
>t;From: "John G >Rawson"
>&lt;johngrawson@hotmail.com&gt; &gt;To: >socialc
>redit@elistas.com &gt;Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006
>03:25:56 >+0000 &gt;Mime-Version:
>1.0 &gt;Content-Type:
>text/html; >format=flowed &gt;X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22
>Feb 2006
>03:25:57.0928 >(UTC) &gt;FILETIME=[B24A6A80:01C6375F]&lt
>;BR>&gt;Subject: Re: >[socialcredit] Inflation and Price
>Control &gt;X-Envelope-To: >kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.
>uk &gt;X-UIDL: >_DTC.TbF_DB.mta02.mx &gt;&l
>t;BR>&gt;&lt;html&gt;&lt;div >style='background-co
>lor:'&gt;&lt;P&gt;Fair and correct, Bill,
>except >for &gt;one thing.&amp;nbsp; Production of
>armaments need not"divert" >manufacturing &gt;effort
>when factories are already producing at less >than
>potential.&amp;nbsp; &gt;You are thinking of the all-out
>effort of >wartime, I an talking about &gt;situations
>like the present one in the >US, where the economy is kept
>going &gt;by armament production, or the >space effort,
>or etc.&amp;nbsp; It was one of &gt;the main functions
>of >Marshall Aid after WW2, which also happened to
>help &gt;a lot of other >nations too. Just as America's
>deficit spending helps us to &gt;export >meat to
>them.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;It can all be tied back to the
>fault
>in >the &gt;financial >system.&lt;/P&gt;&a
>mp;lt;P&gt;Regards.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;
>&lt;FONT >color=#339933 &gt;size=4&gt;John &g
>t;R.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;BLOCKQUOTE
>style="PADDING-LEFT: >5px; &gt;MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
>BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 2px solid; >MARGIN-RIGHT:
>0px"&gt;&lt;FONT &gt;style="FONT-SIZE: 11px;
>FONT-FAMILY: >tahoma,sans-serif"&gt; &gt;&lt;HR
>color=#a0c6e5
>SIZE=1&gt; &gt;From: >&lt;I&gt;"W.
>McGunnigle" >&amp;lt;wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz&amp;gt;&lt;/I&a
>mp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;Reply-To: &gt;&l >t;I&gt
>;socialcredit@elistas.com&lt;/I&gt;&lt;BR&gt;To: &
>amp;gt;&lt;I&gt;&amp >;lt;socialcredit@elistas.com&am
>p;gt;&lt;/I&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Subject: >&lt;I&gt;R
>e: [socialcredit] &gt;Inflation
>and Price >Control&lt;/I&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Date:
>&lt;I&gt;Wed, 22 Feb
>2006 >12:09:22 &gt;+1300&lt;/I&gt;&lt;BR&amp
>;gt;&lt;BR&gt; &gt;&lt;META >content="Micros
>oft
>SafeHTML" >name=Generator&gt; &gt;&lt;STYLE&
>gt; &gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt; &gt; &amp
>;g >t;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=Arial
>size=2&gt;Despite the somewhat histrionic >reply
>from &gt;John, his analysis is correct. 'Stagflation"
>always >seems to coincide with &gt;supremely high
>interest rates. It seems >logical to me therefore that
>the &gt;bulk of the money supply at such >times has
>been subverted into debt &gt;servicing and hence
>the >necessary financial wherewithall to conduct
>normal &gt;business is >being removed from circulation
>at an ever increasing rate. &gt;This >explains the
>rapid slow down in commercial and
>manufacturing >activity &gt;and the stagnation of the
>economy. Normality only returns >when
>interest &gt;rates decrease thereby allowing sufficient
>finance to >become available for &gt;"normal"
>commercial activity. We are assuming, >of course, that
>debt &gt;servicing is NOT a normal activity.
>This >assumption is valid because all &gt;normal people
>do not normally >willingly accept large debts over
>long &gt;periods of
>time. >&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&a
>mp;lt;FONT >face=Arial &gt;size=2&gt;&amp;nbsp;&
>amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nb >sp;&amp;nbs
>p;&amp;nbsp;Government &gt;spending however obeys
>different >rules. Governments can and do
>accept &gt;large debt burdens for all >sorts of
>different political reasons. This &gt;enables them to
>expend >considerable amounts of the nations wealth
>on &gt;projects like >armaments. The wages and salaries
>paid out to the workers in &gt;this >industry plus the
>subcontracting to smaller firms boosts
>the >money &gt;supply and creates a financial
>atmosphere of affluence and >well-being &gt;among the
>general population. Diversion of effort into >armaments
>removes &gt;consumer goods production from circulation
>and >hence a dearth of consumer &gt;goods. This creates
>an artificial >shortage in certain areas of
>the &gt;financial market, and consequently >price
>increases as greedy entrepenuers &gt;take advantage of
>the >situation. "War
>time >expediency &gt;mentality".&lt;/FONT&gt;&am
>p;lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT >face=Arial<BR&gt
>;&gt;size=2&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;n
>bsp;&amp;nb >sp;&amp;nbsp; I have not done an
>exhaustive &gt;analysis of >this situation yet, but I
>am sure that mechanism operating >our &gt;present
>financial system operates along this type of line. >Shortages
>of &gt;vital commodities like food,
>shelter,&amp;nbsp;fuel >and clothing can and
>are &gt;deliberately created simply by >manipulating
>the money supply to prevent &gt;sections of the
>community >having access to these important
>commodities. &gt;Most of the "poor " >in the USA are
>actually fully and gainfully employed, &gt;but
>"the >Market" has been twisted so that virtually all their
>income >is &gt;diverted into providing the necessities
>of life. In NZ >maintaining a &gt;household now
>necessitates two incomes. Both NZ and >USA have
>resources &gt;enough to provide a basis living standard
>well >above subsistence level, &gt;but many still live
>below that level. The >only factor preventing
>proper &gt;distribution of those resources is
>an >adequate debt-free money supply. &gt;Debt servicing
>has become a major >stumbling block
>to&amp;nbsp;human &gt;developement in the world.
>Banks >and financiers are only interested
>in &gt;exploitation of individuals >for their benefit.
>Until this is changed the &gt;present unstable
>world >financial situation will continue. I hope that
>some &gt;madman doesn't >plunge us all into a final
>internecine conflict before >our &gt;international
>financial system is
>totally >reformed.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt; 
>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT
>face=Arial >size=2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;
>/DIV&gt; &gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT >face=A
>rial
>size=2&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; >Bill<BR&
>gt;&gt;McGunnigle&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt; &am
>p;gt;&lt;BLOCKQUOTE >dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px;
>PADDING-LEFT: 5px; &gt;MARGIN-LEFT: >5px; BORDER-LEFT:
>#000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT:
>0px"&gt; &gt;&lt;DIV >style="FONT: 10pt
>arial"&gt;----- Original Message
>----- >&lt;/DIV&gt; &gt;&lt;DIV
>style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt
>arial; >font-color: &gt;black"&gt;&lt;B&gt;F
>rom:&lt;/B&gt;
>&lt;A >title=johngrawson@hotmail.com &gt;href="mailt
>o:johngrawson@hotmail.com"& >gt;John G Rawson&lt;/A&gt;
>&lt;/DIV&gt; &gt;&lt;DIV style="FONT:
>10pt >arial"&gt;&lt;B&gt;To:&lt;/B&gt;
>&lt;A >title=socialcredit@elistas.com &gt;href="mail
>to:socialcredit@elistas.com >"&gt;socialcredit@elistas.com&lt
>;/A&gt;
>&lt;/DIV&gt; &gt;&lt;DIV >style="FONT: 10pt
>arial"&gt;&lt;B&gt;Sent:&lt;/B&gt; Tuesday, February
>21, >2006 &gt;12:46
>PM&lt;/DIV&gt; &gt;&lt;DIV style="FONT:
>10pt >arial"&gt;&lt;B&gt;Subject:&lt;/B&gt; RE:
>[socialcredit] >Inflation &gt;and
>Price >Control&lt;/DIV&gt; &gt;&lt;DIV&g
>t;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt; &gt;&lt;DIV &g
>t;&gt; &gt;&lt;P&gt;Wonderful, sdoppy,
>emotional >claptrap!&lt;/P&gt; &gt;&lt;P&amp
>;gt;As Douglas showed, if governments >didn't go into debt to
>produce &gt;completely useless non-consumer >items of
>this type, those who are hungry &gt;would go hungrier and
>the >naked even more
>naked.&lt;/P&gt; &gt;&lt;P&gt;Were there a
>shortage of >resources, the statement would be true,
>but &gt;while the controlling >factor is not production
>but its fair distribution, &gt;i.e. the
>money >system,&amp;nbsp; it is
>absolute >rubbish.&lt;/P&gt; &gt;&lt;P&g
>t;Regards.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;FONT >color=#339933
>size=4&gt;John >R.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;<BR&g
>t;&gt;&lt;BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT:
>5px; >MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; &gt;BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 2px
>solid;
>MARGIN-RIGHT: >0px"&gt;&lt;FONT &gt;style="FONT-
>SIZE: 11px;
>FONT-FAMILY: >tahoma,sans-serif"&gt; &gt;&lt;HR
>color=#a0c6e5
>SIZE=1&gt; &gt;From: >&lt;I&gt;"Daniel
>Morin" >&amp;lt;dan@danmorin.com&amp;gt;&lt;/I&gt;&am
>p;lt;BR&gt;Reply-To: &gt;&lt;I& >gt;socialcr
>edit@elistas.com&lt;/I&gt;&lt;BR&gt;To: &gt;&a
>mp;lt;I&gt;&amp;lt; >socialcredit@elistas.com&amp;gt;&amp
>;lt;/I&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Subject:
>&lt;I&gt;RE: >[socialcredit] &gt;Inflation and
>Price
>Control&lt;/I&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Date: >&lt;I&gt;Su
>n, 19 Feb
>2006 >19:10:56 &gt;-0500&lt;/I&gt;&lt;BR&amp
>;gt;&amp;gt;Hi >Ken,&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&
>gt;&amp;gt; &amp;gt; " Every warship,
>every >tank, &gt;and every military aircraft built is
>in the&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; >&amp;gt; final sense
>a &gt;theft from those who are hungry and are
>not >fed., and those&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;
>&amp;gt; &gt;who are naked, and
>not >clothed."&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&am
>p;gt;Amen!&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR& >gt;&amp;
>gt; &amp;gt; &gt;-----Original
>Message-----&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; >&amp;gt; From:
>Kenneth >Palmerton &gt;[mailto:kenpalmerton@cix.compulin
>k.co.uk]&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt >;
>&amp;gt; Sent: Sunday, &gt;February 19, 2006
>12:50 >PM&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;
>&amp;gt; >To: &gt;socialcredit@elistas.com&lt;BR
>&gt;&amp;gt;
>&amp;gt; >Cc: &gt;kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk&a
>mp;lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; &amp;gt; >Subject: RE:
>[socialcredit] &gt;Inflation and
>Price >Control&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;
>&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; >&amp;gt;&lt;BR&am
>p;gt;&amp;gt;
>&amp;gt; &gt;In-Reply-To: >&amp;lt;NCBBKCEMIKELN
>EFLLFEHKEDDGLAB.dan@danmorin.com&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp &
>gt;;gt; &gt;&amp;gt; Hi
>Dan.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;
>&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; >&amp;gt; "The Soviet
>economy was based on &gt;military
>expenditures" >:-)))&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;
>&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; &amp;gt; Beware
>of >living in &gt;glass houses
>:-)&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; >&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp
>;amp;gt; &amp;gt; " Every warship,
>every >tank, &gt;and every military aircraft built is
>in the&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; >&amp;gt; final sense
>a &gt;theft from those who are hungry and are
>not >fed., and those&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;
>&amp;gt; &gt;who are naked, and
>not >clothed."&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;
>&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; &amp;gt;
>Dwight >D. &gt;Eisenhower. One time President of this
>worlds most >deeply&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;
>&amp;gt; &gt;indebted nation. The United >States of
>America.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; >&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt
>;&amp;gt; &gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&a
>mp;lt;BR&gt;&amp; >gt;---------------------------------------
>---------------- &gt;--------- >-----&lt;BR&gt;&
>amp;amp;gt;So &gt;me introductory materials to
>the >discussion topic of this
>list >are &gt;at&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;http://www
>.geocities.com/socredus/compendium >&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;You
>'re &gt;subscribed to &gt;this list with
>the >email
>johngrawson@hotmail.com&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;For >more<BR&
>gt;&gt;information, >visit &gt;http://www.eListas.co
>m/list/socialcredit&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt >;&lt;/
>BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;BR &gt;clear=all
>&gt; &gt;&lt;HR&g >t; &gt;Find
>the coolest online games
>at >&lt;A &gt;href="http://g.msn.com/8HMBENNZ/2746??
>PS=47575"&gt;XtraMSN >Games&lt;/A&gt; &gt;&a
>mp;lt;P&gt;&lt;PRE&gt;-------------------------------- >-
>---------------------------------- &gt;-- &gt;Som
>e introductory >materials to the discussion topic of this list
>are >at &gt;http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> &gt;You're >subscribed to this list
>with the email wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz &gt;For >more
>information,
>visit >http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit &gt;&amp
>;lt;P&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;/PRE >&gt; &g
>t;&lt;P&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; &
>amp;gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;PRE& >gt;------------------------
>------------------------------------------- & >gt;--<
>BR>&gt;Some introductory materials to the >discussion topic
>of this list
>are >at &gt;http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> &gt;You're >subscribed to this list with the email
>johngrawson@hotmail.com &gt;For >more information,
>visit >http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit &gt;&amp
>;lt;P&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;/PRE >&gt; &g
>t;&lt;P&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt
>;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&l >t;/div&gt;&lt;br
>clear=all&gt;&lt;hr&gt;Need more &gt;speed? Get
>&lt;a >href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENNZ/2740??PS=47575" &
>amp;gt;target="_top"&gt;Xtr >a
>Broadband!&lt;/a&gt; >&lt;/html&gt; &gt;
> &gt; &gt; &gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp
>;lt;pre&gt;---------- >------------------------------------------
>--------------- &gt;-- &gt; >Some
>introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>are >at &gt;http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> &gt;You're >subscribed to this list with the email
>kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk &gt;For >more information,
>visit >http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit &gt;&amp
>;lt;p&gt;&lt;/pre&gt;&lt;p& >gt; &gt
>; &gt; &gt; </BLOCKQUOTE
>></div><br >clear=all><hr>Find the coolest
>online games at
><a >href="http://g.msn.com/8HMBENNZ/2746??PS=47575"
>target="_top">XtraMSN >Games</a>
></html> > > > ><pre>----------
>--------------------------------------------------------- >-- >
>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
>at >http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium >You're
>subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk >For
>more information, visit
>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit ></pre><p&
>gt; > > > </BLOCKQUOTE></div> clear=all><hr>Need more speed? Get <a
>href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENNZ/2755??PS=47575" target="_top">Xtra
>Broadband!</a> </html>
>
>
>
><pre>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>You're subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
>For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
></pre>
>
>
>

Check out the latest video at Xtra Broadband
--------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email cymric@xtra.co.nz For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit

--------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email johngrawson@hotmail.com For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit

Check out the latest video at Xtra Broadband
--------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email cymric@xtra.co.nz For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit

--------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email johngrawson@hotmail.com For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit

Services:	Home, List Hosting Services, Industry Solutions
Your Account:	Sign Up, My Lists, My Preferences, Start a List
General:	About Us, News, Privacy Policy, No spam, Contact Us


The Most Complete Mailing Lists, Groups and Newsletters System on the Net

HOME SERVICES SOLUTIONS COMPANY