| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control - Douglas was biased | | Date: | Thursday, February 23, 2006 15:38:00 (+0000) | | From: | Kenneth Palmerton <kenpalmerton @................uk>
|
In-Reply-To: <001901c63795$90290520$fe6437d2@computer>
Hi Bill.
Like you I do not know why there are people who think that monetary reform
ideas, and the more detailed analysis of Social Credit are somehow
"Socialistic" in nature.
As a matter of interest, under the umbrella of the Forum for Stable
Currencies a meeting was held recently in a committee room of the House of
Lords here in London that included people from the far right Monday Club,
with their friends of Genghis Khan, right round the political spectrum,
through to the head bangers of the revolutionary Socialists.
All singing from the same hymn sheets :-)))
Certainly given a sane and sound monetary system there would be many many
suggestions from that group about how they would put it to use. But there
was universal agreement that non of their political plans, utopian or not,
could be implemented in a meaningful manner.
Ken.
-------- Original Message --------
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From: "W. McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
References: <NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHMEKNGNAB.dan@danmorin.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 22:51:31 +1300
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Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control - Douglas was
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Daniel
Your historical analysis of the USA the period mentioned is =
not strictly correct. The prosperty prior to the "War of Independence" =
only took place during the years when "Continental Script" was used as =
the medium of exchange. One of the immediate causes of that war was the =
imposition from England of the statute requiring all monetary =
transactions to be in coinage based on gold. This caused an immediate =
contraction of the money supply in the continental USA and a massive =
slump causing great hardship and poverty. Prosperity was restored to the =
continent when the newly formed US government issued its own money as =
paper script in the form of the dollar as well as minted coins. The =
prosperity continued while the US Treasury controlled the money supply =
throughout the 19th century. Problems began to arise when the control of =
the money supply was transfered to the Federal Reserve Bank in 1917 by a =
very dubious act of Congress pushed through by a number of comgress =
members in cooperation with prominent members of the US Banking =
fraternity. It was only from that point onwards that the USA began to =
accumulate extensive debts to the banking system. The USA would be =
running surplusses today if it was not for the indeptedness it has =
accumulated to the international banking system through the Federal =
Reserve. The Federal Reserve is a Private banking organisation not =
answerable to either the American People or the US government. Quite the =
reverse, the US government owes so much to the Federal Reserve that, =
that private bank can almost dictate to the American government what it =
can and cannot do in fiscal matters. The old story of "He that pays the =
piper calls the tune"
The Bank of England has a similiar stranglehold of the Pound =
Sterling. The complex and intimate relationship between the dollar and =
pound Sterling comes from the intimate relationship between these two =
reserve banks.=20
I believe your interpretation of extra rewards through extra =
endeavour do not clash with basic Socred principles, but you are =
confusing greed with necessity. There is nothing wrong with the =
principle that everyone should have the basic needs of life when we all =
know the resources of our society are quite capable of providing them. =
Douglas was simply analysing the situation of the 1920's and providing =
as explanation why, in the midst of plenty, people werwe starving and in =
want because there was no work for them to earn the necessary funds to =
do so. He did not state any socialist dogma that all should be equal. =
This is an impossibility however he did recognise that those with the =
greatest talent were entitled to as great a prosperous lifestyle as they =
couild afford. You also get the impression too that from those with the =
greatest gifts much is expected. My experience, as a senior army =
officer, held two essential criteria. Rank has its privileges and rank =
has its responsiblities. The two are interwoven. I also found that the =
higher the rank and the greater the power and consequent =
responsiblities, the less freedom you had in choices of alternatives. =
The present size of the global debt is so vast that I believe there are =
few, if any, human minds capable of solving the problem without a =
radical new approach to the whole mess. The solution our present system =
favours appears to be genocide i.e a drastic reduction in the human =
population of the world.
I would appreciate your view of the matter. You appear to have a =
slightly different background and world view to my own and such cross =
reference is always valuable to understanding.
Bill McGunnigle
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Daniel Morin=20
To: socialcredit@elistas.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 4:41 AM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control - Douglas was =
biased
Douglas was obviously biased since he was earning his living from =
government spending on warfare material. It is easy to show and/or =
prove anything, even something that does no make any sense. I can show =
you the sun is raising because the roosters are signing in the morning =
because every day, there are thousand of instances roosters signing =
proving it.
Question: How do you explain the great prosperity of the US during the =
late 1700s and 1800s with treasury surpluses? During long time periods, =
the US Government was running abundant treasury surpluses and the =
economy was soaring. If government debt was the key to prosperity, then =
people should have been starving during that time.
I am always fascinating how people project their own reality onto =
others. I am not emotional at all, but a rational individual capable to =
have any conversation without ever going emotional. My stake in this =
"emotional claptrap" is you are biased yourself. I would be curious to =
see what is your job and your source of funding. I would speculate you =
are receiving money from government funding and/or somehow dreaming of =
receiving money from the government in the future. As a result, you =
support a theory fitting your own agenda, that is, government spending =
is essential [for you].
What do you mean by "fair distribution"? Who decides what is "fair"? =
You? Any politician? To me, the concept of "fair distribution" is more =
emotional than intellectual. Remember that fairness and equality are =
antonyms. If you treat everyone equal, then you are not fair because =
some individuals do work more than others and are entitled to have more.
-----Original Message-----
From: John G Rawson [mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 6:47 PM
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control
Wonderful, sdoppy, emotional claptrap!
As Douglas showed, if governments didn't go into debt to produce =
completely useless non-consumer items of this type, those who are hungry =
would go hungrier and the naked even more naked.
Were there a shortage of resources, the statement would be true, but =
while the controlling factor is not production but its fair =
distribution, i.e. the money system, it is absolute rubbish.
Regards. John R.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
From: "Daniel Morin" <dan@danmorin.com>
Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:10:56 -0500
>Hi Ken,
>
> > " Every warship, every tank, and every military aircraft built =
is in the
> > final sense a theft from those who are hungry and are not =
fed., and those
> > who are naked, and not clothed."
>
>Amen!
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kenneth Palmerton =
[mailto:kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk]
> > Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 12:50 PM
> > To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> > Cc: kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk
> > Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control
> >
> >
> > In-Reply-To:
<NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHKEDDGLAB.dan@danmorin.com>
> > Hi Dan.
> >
> > "The Soviet economy was based on military expenditures" :-)))
> >
> > Beware of living in glass houses :-)
> >
> > " Every warship, every tank, and every military aircraft built =
is in the
> > final sense a theft from those who are hungry and are not =
fed., and those
> > who are naked, and not clothed."
> >
> > Dwight D. Eisenhower. One time President of this worlds most =
deeply
> > indebted nation. The United States of America.
> >
> >
>
=
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list =
are at
>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>You're subscribed to this list with the email =
johngrawson@hotmail.com
>For more information, visit =
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
Find the coolest online games at XtraMSN Games=20
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
You're subscribed to this list with the email dan@danmorin.com
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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You're subscribed to this list with the email wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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You're subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Daniel</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>
Your =
historical=20
analysis of the USA the period mentioned is not strictly correct. The =
prosperty=20
prior to the "War of Independence" only took place during the years when =
"Continental Script" was used as the medium of exchange. One of the =
immediate=20
causes of that war was the imposition from England of the statute =
requiring all=20
monetary transactions to be in coinage based on gold. This caused an =
immediate=20
contraction of the money supply in the continental USA and a massive =
slump=20
causing great hardship and poverty. Prosperity was restored to the =
continent=20
when the newly formed US government issued its own money as paper script =
in the=20
form of the dollar as well as minted coins. The prosperity continued =
while the=20
US Treasury controlled the money supply throughout the 19th century. =
Problems=20
began to arise when the control of the money supply was transfered to =
the=20
Federal Reserve Bank in 1917 by a very dubious act of Congress pushed =
through by=20
a number of comgress members in cooperation with prominent members of =
the US=20
Banking fraternity. It was only from that point onwards that the USA =
began to=20
accumulate extensive debts to the banking system. The USA would be =
running=20
surplusses today if it was not for the indeptedness it has accumulated =
to the=20
international banking system through the Federal Reserve. The Federal =
Reserve is=20
a Private banking organisation not answerable to either the American =
People or=20
the US government. Quite the reverse, the US government owes so much to =
the=20
Federal Reserve that, that private bank can almost dictate to the =
American=20
government what it can and cannot do in fiscal matters. The old story of =
"He=20
that pays the piper calls the tune"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
=
The Bank of=20
England has a similiar stranglehold of the Pound Sterling. The complex =
and=20
intimate relationship between the dollar and pound Sterling comes from =
the=20
intimate relationship between these two reserve banks. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
I =
believe your=20
interpretation of extra rewards through extra endeavour do not clash =
with basic=20
Socred principles, but you are confusing greed with necessity. There is =
nothing=20
wrong with the principle that everyone should have the basic needs of =
life when=20
we all know the resources of our society are quite capable of providing =
them.=20
Douglas was simply analysing the situation of the 1920's and providing =
as=20
explanation why, in the midst of plenty, people werwe starving and in =
want=20
because there was no work for them to earn the necessary funds to do so. =
He did=20
not state any socialist dogma that all should be equal. This is an =
impossibility=20
however he did recognise that those with the greatest talent were =
entitled to as=20
great a prosperous lifestyle as they couild afford. You also get the =
impression=20
too that from those with the greatest gifts much is expected. My =
experience, as=20
a senior army officer, held two essential criteria. Rank has its =
privileges and=20
rank has its responsiblities. The two are interwoven. I also found that =
the=20
higher the rank and the greater the power and consequent =
responsiblities, the=20
less freedom you had in choices of alternatives. The present size of the =
global=20
debt is so vast that I believe there are few, if any, human minds =
capable of=20
solving the problem without a radical new approach to the whole mess. =
The=20
solution our present system favours appears to be genocide i.e a drastic =
reduction in the human population of the world.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I would appreciate your view of =
the matter.=20
You appear to have a slightly different background and world view to my =
own and=20
such cross reference is always valuable to understanding.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> &nb
sp;&nbs=
p; =20
Bill McGunnigle</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Ddan@danmorin.com href=3D"mailto:dan@danmorin.com">Daniel =
Morin</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dsocialcredit@elistas.com=20
href=3D"mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 22, =
2006 4:41=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [socialcredit] =
Inflation and=20
Price Control - Douglas was biased</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D109571415-21022006>Douglas was obviously biased since he was =
earning his=20
living from government spending on warfare material. It is easy =
to show=20
and/or prove anything, even something that does no make any =
sense. I can=20
show you the sun is raising <STRONG>because</STRONG> the roosters are =
signing=20
in the morning because every day, there are thousand of instances =
roosters=20
signing proving it.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D109571415-21022006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D109571415-21022006>Question: How do you explain the great =
prosperity of=20
the US during the late 1700s and 1800s with treasury =
surpluses? =20
During long time periods, the US Government was running=20
<STRONG>abundant</STRONG> treasury surpluses =
<STRONG>and</STRONG> the=20
economy was soaring. If government debt was the key to =
prosperity,=20
then people should have been starving during that=20
time.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D109571415-21022006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D109571415-21022006>I am=20
always fascinating how people project their own reality onto =
others. I=20
am not emotional at all, but a rational individual capable to have any =
conversation without ever going emotional. =
</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D109571415-21022006>My stake in=20
this "emotional claptrap" is you are biased yourself. =
I would=20
be curious to see what is your job and your source of funding. I =
would=20
speculate you are receiving money from government funding=20
and/or somehow dreaming of receiving money from the =
government in=20
the future. As a result, you support a theory fitting your =
own=20
agenda, that is, government spending is essential [for=20
you].</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D109571415-21022006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D109571415-21022006>What=20
do you mean by "fair distribution"? Who decides what is =
"fair"? =20
You? Any politician? To me, the concept of "fair =
distribution" is=20
more emotional than intellectual. Remember that fairness and =
equality=20
are antonyms. If you treat everyone equal, then you are not fair =
because=20
some individuals do work more than others and are entitled to have=20
more.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px
=
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> John G Rawson=20
[mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February =
20, 2006=20
6:47 PM<BR><B>To:</B> socialcredit@elistas.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
RE:=20
[socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<P>Wonderful, sdoppy, emotional claptrap!</P>
<P>As Douglas showed, if governments didn't go into debt to produce=20
completely useless non-consumer items of this type, those who are =
hungry=20
would go hungrier and the naked even more naked.</P>
<P>Were there a shortage of resources, the statement would be true, =
but=20
while the controlling factor is not production but its fair =
distribution,=20
i.e. the money system, it is absolute rubbish.</P>
<P>Regards. <FONT color=3D#339933 size=3D4>John =
R.</FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 =
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif">
<HR color=3D#a0c6e5 SIZE=3D1>
From: <I>"Daniel Morin" <dan@danmorin.com></I><BR>Reply-To:=20
<I>socialcredit@elistas.com</I><BR>To:=20
<I><socialcredit@elistas.com></I><BR>Subject: <I>RE: =
[socialcredit]=20
Inflation and Price Control</I><BR>Date: <I>Sun, 19 Feb 2006 =
19:10:56=20
-0500</I><BR>>Hi Ken,<BR>><BR>> > " Every warship, =
every tank,=20
and every military aircraft built is in the<BR>> > final =
sense a=20
theft from those who are hungry and are not fed., and =
those<BR>> >=20
who are naked, and not =
clothed."<BR>><BR>>Amen!<BR>><BR>> >=20
-----Original Message-----<BR>> > From: Kenneth Palmerton=20
[mailto:kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk]<BR>> > Sent: =
Sunday,=20
February 19, 2006 12:50 PM<BR>> > To:=20
socialcredit@elistas.com<BR>> > Cc:=20
kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk<BR>> > Subject: RE: =
[socialcredit]=20
Inflation and Price Control<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > =
In-Reply-To: =
<NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHKEDDGLAB.dan@danmorin.com><BR>>=20
> Hi Dan.<BR>> ><BR>> > "The Soviet economy was =
based on=20
military expenditures" :-)))<BR>> ><BR>> > Beware of =
living in=20
glass houses :-)<BR>> ><BR>> > " Every warship, every =
tank,=20
and every military aircraft built is in the<BR>> > final =
sense a=20
theft from those who are hungry and are not fed., and =
those<BR>> >=20
who are naked, and not clothed."<BR>> ><BR>> > Dwight =
D.=20
Eisenhower. One time President of this worlds most deeply<BR>> =
>=20
indebted nation. The United States of America.<BR>> =
><BR>>=20
=
><BR>><BR>>-----------------------------------------------------=
----------------<BR>>Some=20
introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are=20
=
at<BR>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR>>You're=20
subscribed to this list with the email =
johngrawson@hotmail.com<BR>>For=20
more information, visit=20
=
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR
=
=20
clear=3Dall>
<HR>
Find the coolest online games at <A=20
href=3D"http://g.msn.com/8HMBENNZ/2746??PS=3D47575"; =
target=3D_top>XtraMSN=20
Games</A>=20
=
<P><PRE>-----------------------------------------------------------------=
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You're subscribed to this list with the email dan@danmorin.com
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
<P></P></PRE>
<P></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
=
<P><PRE>-----------------------------------------------------------------=
----
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<P></P></PRE>
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<p><pre>-------------------------------------------------------------------
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