In-Reply-To: <BAY21-F14EFDA8409AA15B3ABBBC1BDF20@phx.gbl>
Hi John.
I have always been interested in the NZ goings on. And have regretted not
knowing more.
You tell me that your farmers are not subsidised. Now I know that the very
word raises hackles, and much misunderstanding amongst warring groups, but
will you tell me what YOU mean by it please.
I must tell you that I do not like the "Export or die" dogma. I think that
in general it denies ordinary people the fruits of their labours. The idea
that we are all persuaded to accept that this is how we live is nonsense.
It is mathematically impossible for all to achieve "a positive balance of
trade". And I think that NZ in particular has suffered from this delusion.
Particularly when the EU persuaded your biggest market for butter and meat
to suddenly buy elsewhere.
I think the hurt is still felt in NZ, is it not?
One bit of NZ history particularly interests me. And maybe you have
something to add. As I understand it NZ once had a central bank that
actually was under State control. Like the Aussi Commonwealth Bank. And
that this bank provided funds at half percent interest to fund the
creation of the dairy industry. What happened to this fabulous idea ?
Ken.
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From: "John G Rawson" <johngrawson@hotmail.com>
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
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FILETIME=[C1522980:01C638D3]Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Inflation and
Price ControlX-Envelope-To: kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk
X-UIDL: _lPF.Uao_DB.mta04.mx
<html><div style='background-color:'><P>Thanks. I do think we are on
the same wavelength.</P><P>I hadn't realised the control factor, but had
realised that American production, geared for war, would have collapsed
without some grand plan like that.</P><P>And I was referring to NZ being
able to export meat to the US because of their overspending. And in
passing, our farmers are not subsidised.</P><P>Regards.
<FONT color=#339933 size=4>John R.</FONT></P><BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 2px
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY:
tahoma,sans-serif"><HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1>
From: <I>kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Kenneth
Palmerton)</I><BR>Reply-To: <I>socialcredit@elistas.com</I><BR>To:
<I>socialcredit@elistas.com</I><BR>CC:
<I>kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk</I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: [socialcredit]
Inflation and Price Control</I><BR>Date: <I>Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:38 +0000
(GMT)</I><BR>>In-Reply-To:
<BAY21-F194E0911053FE0D8A1FC5FBDFD0@phx.gbl><BR>>Hi
John.<BR>><BR>>If we are to achieve anything like a full
understanding of the sort of<BR>>changes we propose to the monetary
order, we need, I think, to be careful<BR>>about the examples we quote,
and the conclusions we draw from them.<BR>><BR>>Take for instance
your Two references to the Marshal Plan, and the US<BR>>export of
meat.<BR>><BR>>Read any standard text about the Marshal plan, and we
will be faced with<BR>>statements about it being the salvation western
Europe.<BR>><BR>>It was nothing of the sort. It was the imposition
of control by the<BR>>existing financial order, preventing the
exhausted nations from creating<BR>>what was needed from their own
facilities. It was the next stage of<BR>>imperialism. And it set back
much needed advances in understanding of the<BR>>realities of aid and
international trade.<BR>><BR>>If this offends, May I suggest you
study the plans taken to Bretton Woods,<BR>>and
rejected.<BR>><BR>>As for exports of meat from the US. Other than
for emergency aid at times<BR>>of true famine, such exports do great
harm to the recipient. This drains<BR>>purchasing power from local
producers, and retards the very desirable self<BR>>sufficiency that
should be the aim.<BR>><BR>>International trade should be confined
to true surpluses. Or for items<BR>>that are not, or cannot be produced
or secured locally.<BR>><BR>>Ken.<BR>><BR>>-------- Original
Message
--------<BR>><BR>>X-Envelope-From:<BR>>socialcredit-return-3460-ke
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<000c01c6373b$dadf4020$056437d2@computer><BR>>From: "John G
Rawson" <johngrawson@hotmail.com><BR>>To:
socialcredit@elistas.com<BR>>Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 03:25:56
+0000<BR>>Mime-Version: 1.0<BR>>Content-Type: text/html;
format=flowed<BR>>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Feb 2006 03:25:57.0928
(UTC)<BR>>FILETIME=[B24A6A80:01C6375F]<BR>>Subject: Re:
[socialcredit] Inflation and Price Control<BR>>X-Envelope-To:
kenpalmerton@cixcouk.cix.co.uk<BR>>X-UIDL:
_DTC.TbF_DB.mta02.mx<BR>><BR>><html><div
style='background-color:'><P>Fair and correct, Bill, except
for<BR>>one thing. Production of armaments need not"divert"
manufacturing<BR>>effort when factories are already producing at less
than potential. <BR>>You are thinking of the all-out effort of
wartime, I an talking about<BR>>situations like the present one in the
US, where the economy is kept going<BR>>by armament production, or the
space effort, or etc. It was one of<BR>>the main functions of
Marshall Aid after WW2, which also happened to help<BR>>a lot of other
nations too. Just as America's deficit spending helps us to<BR>>export
meat to them.</P><P>It can all be tied back to the fault in
the<BR>>financial
system.</P><P>Regards. <FONT
color=#339933<BR>>size=4>John
R.</FONT></P><BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT:
5px;<BR>>MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 2px solid;
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT<BR>>style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY:
tahoma,sans-serif"><BR>><HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1><BR>>From:
<I>"W. McGunnigle"
<wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz></I><BR>Reply-To:<BR>>&l
t;I>socialcredit@elistas.com</I><BR>To:<BR>><I>&
;lt;socialcredit@elistas.com></I><BR>Subject:
<I>Re: [socialcredit]<BR>>Inflation and Price
Control</I><BR>Date: <I>Wed, 22 Feb 2006
12:09:22<BR>>+1300</I><BR><BR><BR>><META
content="Microsoft SafeHTML"
name=Generator><BR>><STYLE><BR>></STYLE><BR>><BR>&g
t;<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Despite the somewhat histrionic
reply from<BR>>John, his analysis is correct. 'Stagflation" always
seems to coincide with<BR>>supremely high interest rates. It seems
logical to me therefore that the<BR>>bulk of the money supply at such
times has been subverted into debt<BR>>servicing and hence the
necessary financial wherewithall to conduct normal<BR>>business is
being removed from circulation at an ever increasing rate.<BR>>This
explains the rapid slow down in commercial and manufacturing
activity<BR>>and the stagnation of the economy. Normality only returns
when interest<BR>>rates decrease thereby allowing sufficient finance to
become available for<BR>>"normal" commercial activity. We are assuming,
of course, that debt<BR>>servicing is NOT a normal activity. This
assumption is valid because all<BR>>normal people do not normally
willingly accept large debts over long<BR>>periods of time.
</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT
face=Arial<BR>>size=2> &nb
sp; Government<BR>>spending however obeys different
rules. Governments can and do accept<BR>>large debt burdens for all
sorts of different political reasons. This<BR>>enables them to expend
considerable amounts of the nations wealth on<BR>>projects like
armaments. The wages and salaries paid out to the workers in<BR>>this
industry plus the subcontracting to smaller firms boosts the
money<BR>>supply and creates a financial atmosphere of affluence and
well-being<BR>>among the general population. Diversion of effort into
armaments removes<BR>>consumer goods production from circulation and
hence a dearth of consumer<BR>>goods. This creates an artificial
shortage in certain areas of the<BR>>financial market, and consequently
price increases as greedy entrepenuers<BR>>take advantage of the
situation. "War time
expediency<BR>>mentality".</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT
face=Arial<BR>>size=2> &nb
sp; I have not done an exhaustive<BR>>analysis of
this situation yet, but I am sure that mechanism operating
our<BR>>present financial system operates along this type of line.
Shortages of<BR>>vital commodities like food, shelter, fuel
and clothing can and are<BR>>deliberately created simply by
manipulating the money supply to prevent<BR>>sections of the community
having access to these important commodities.<BR>>Most of the "poor "
in the USA are actually fully and gainfully employed,<BR>>but "the
Market" has been twisted so that virtually all their income
is<BR>>diverted into providing the necessities of life. In NZ
maintaining a<BR>>household now necessitates two incomes. Both NZ and
USA have resources<BR>>enough to provide a basis living standard well
above subsistence level,<BR>>but many still live below that level. The
only factor preventing proper<BR>>distribution of those resources is an
adequate debt-free money supply.<BR>>Debt servicing has become a major
stumbling block to human<BR>>developement in the world. Banks
and financiers are only interested in<BR>>exploitation of individuals
for their benefit. Until this is changed the<BR>>present unstable world
financial situation will continue. I hope that some<BR>>madman doesn't
plunge us all into a final internecine conflict before
our<BR>>international financial system is totally
reformed.</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT
face=Arial size=2>
Bill<BR>>McGunnigle</FONT></DIV><BR>><BLOCKQUOTE
dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px;<BR>>MARGIN-LEFT:
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><BR>><DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
</DIV><BR>><DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial;
font-color:<BR>>black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=johngrawson@hotmail.com<BR>>href="mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com"&
gt;John G Rawson</A> </DIV><BR>><DIV style="FONT: 10pt
arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=socialcredit@elistas.com<BR>>href="mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com
">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> </DIV><BR>><DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 21,
2006<BR>>12:46 PM</DIV><BR>><DIV style="FONT: 10pt
arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [socialcredit]
Inflation<BR>>and Price
Control</DIV><BR>><DIV><BR></DIV><BR>><DIV
><BR>><P>Wonderful, sdoppy, emotional
claptrap!</P><BR>><P>As Douglas showed, if governments
didn't go into debt to produce<BR>>completely useless non-consumer
items of this type, those who are hungry<BR>>would go hungrier and the
naked even more naked.</P><BR>><P>Were there a shortage of
resources, the statement would be true, but<BR>>while the controlling
factor is not production but its fair distribution,<BR>>i.e. the money
system, it is absolute
rubbish.</P><BR>><P>Regards. <FONT
color=#339933 size=4>John
R.</FONT></P><BR>><BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;<BR>>BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT:
0px"><FONT<BR>>style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY:
tahoma,sans-serif"><BR>><HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1><BR>>From:
<I>"Daniel Morin"
<dan@danmorin.com></I><BR>Reply-To:<BR>><I&
gt;socialcredit@elistas.com</I><BR>To:<BR>><I><
socialcredit@elistas.com></I><BR>Subject: <I>RE:
[socialcredit]<BR>>Inflation and Price Control</I><BR>Date:
<I>Sun, 19 Feb 2006
19:10:56<BR>>-0500</I><BR>>Hi
Ken,<BR>><BR>> > " Every warship, every
tank,<BR>>and every military aircraft built is in the<BR>>
> final sense a<BR>>theft from those who are hungry and are not
fed., and those<BR>> ><BR>>who are naked, and not
clothed."<BR>><BR>>Amen!<BR>><BR&
gt;> ><BR>>-----Original Message-----<BR>>
> From: Kenneth
Palmerton<BR>>[mailto:kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk]<BR>>
; > Sent: Sunday,<BR>>February 19, 2006 12:50
PM<BR>> >
To:<BR>>socialcredit@elistas.com<BR>> >
Cc:<BR>>kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk<BR>> >
Subject: RE: [socialcredit]<BR>>Inflation and Price
Control<BR>> ><BR>>
><BR>> ><BR>>In-Reply-To:
<NCBBKCEMIKELNEFLLFEHKEDDGLAB.dan@danmorin.com><BR>&
;gt;<BR>>> Hi Dan.<BR>> ><BR>>
> "The Soviet economy was based on<BR>>military expenditures"
:-)))<BR>> ><BR>> > Beware of
living in<BR>>glass houses :-)<BR>>
><BR>> > " Every warship, every
tank,<BR>>and every military aircraft built is in the<BR>>
> final sense a<BR>>theft from those who are hungry and are not
fed., and those<BR>> ><BR>>who are naked, and not
clothed."<BR>> ><BR>> > Dwight
D.<BR>>Eisenhower. One time President of this worlds most
deeply<BR>> ><BR>>indebted nation. The United
States of America.<BR>>
><BR>><BR>>><BR>><BR>&
gt;-------------------------------------------------------<BR>>---------
-----<BR>>So<BR>>me introductory materials to the
discussion topic of this list
are<BR>>at<BR>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
<BR>>You're<BR>>subscribed to<BR>>this list with the
email johngrawson@hotmail.com<BR>>For
more<BR>>information,
visit<BR>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR></FONT>
;</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR<BR>>clear=all><BR>><HR&g
t;<BR>>Find the coolest online games at
<A<BR>>href="http://g.msn.com/8HMBENNZ/2746??PS=47575";>XtraMSN
Games</A><BR>><P><PRE>--------------------------------
-----------------------------------<BR>>--<BR>>Some introductory
materials to the discussion topic of this list are
at<BR>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR>>You're
subscribed to this list with the email wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz<BR>>For
more information, visit
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR>><P></P></PRE
><BR>><P></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>><P><PRE&
gt;-------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&
gt;--<BR>>Some introductory materials to the
discussion topic of this list are
at<BR>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR>>You're
subscribed to this list with the email johngrawson@hotmail.com<BR>>For
more information, visit
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR>><P></P></PRE
><BR>><P><BR></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>&l
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</html><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><p><pre>----------
---------------------------------------------------------<BR>>--<BR>>
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
at<BR>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR>>You're
subscribed to this list with the email kenpalmerton@cix.co.uk<BR>>For
more information, visit
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR>><p></pre><p&
gt;<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></div><br
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<p><pre>-------------------------------------------------------------------
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