| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Rent for everyone | | Date: | Tuesday, March 7, 2006 08:10:01 (-0800) | | From: | Jeffery Smith <jjs @.........org>
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| In reply to: | Message 3571 (written by Peter Haines) |
On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:59 PM, Peter Haines wrote:
> Howdy Jeffery,
>
> Your dividend is based on a community pooling of a tax.
Can be. Not necessarily. If it's Hong Kong, where land is public, it's
based on a lease. Same in Alaska.
> The only difference between this and the basic wage is that the
> central bureaucracy is not included in the loop and is replaced by a
> local beaucracy.
Perhaps the only apparent difference. But look a little deeper.
Consider the Aspen CO example. How much bureaucracy would you say is
involved there?
> It also smacks a little of the communist philosophy in that the
> natural world belongs to everyone and so any given piece of land will
> incur a penalty on the occupant for excluding the rest of the owners
> use of the same.
While you may be more familiar with communism than I, it also smacks
quite a bit of Christianity and most moral traditions (see quotes at
our website). "Penalty" is a poor choice of terminology, unless you'd
refer to any price as a penalty.
> Obviously prime commercial and industrial real estate will pay the
> highest penalty
Is a mortgage a penalty, too, or is this mere propaganda?
> and they being good business people will extract it from those who
> will get it back in the dividend
They'll want to, they'll try to, but will they be able to? You've left
out that land dues creates competition between dues payers, which is
why in every real world example, land prices don't rise but fall.
> which is really localising the present system of govt taking with one
> hand and giving back with the other.
"Really"? Please, site just one real world example.
> So if the King or Baron of yester-age had to pay a community tax for
> his lands we know where the tax money would come from.
What we know seems quite tenuous.
> Now how do you suppose you can persuade Social Crediters to throw the
> baby ( we produced) out and keep the bath water ( we didnt produce)
> since we propose a dividend of new debt free money not from tax,
Not debt free exactly but interest free.
> representing common ownership ( property of the type that cant be
> occupied) in the ever enhancing social development we as society
> produced collectively, of all kinds over time, rather than the natural
> world which we didnt produce?
Could you make that sentence any longer? But to answer anyway, new
money is needed relative to growth of the economy. Any more than that
is inflationary. The small amount needed does not amount to much of a
dividend, and it should go to only the young adults representing the
growth of the economy. A dividend from the socially generated value of
nature would be much bigger.
> Your proposal doesnt compete.
Not with closed minds.
> You recognise the hierarchical and democracy issues of the past but
> dont recognise common ownership represented in the S.C. dividend
Oh? Please site the source of your belief.
> which is usurped by both govt and private hierarchies of today and
> thus violates a very crucial aspect of practical every day democracy
> when people would vote and enjoy freedom by their wallets.
Usurped less where rent is shared, usurped more where rent is hoarded.
> The current system is still based on a privileged hierarchy who
> dominate property, the advantage of legal sanction associated with it
> and access to credit. The state enjoys its share in this game. The
> system is unjust because it is upside down to what it should be. Your
> proposal doesnt turn this the right side up as the advantage of
> property and the associated legal power would remain dominant.
Maybe not everywhere at every instant, but wherever tried, to the
degree tried, it has always worked, unlike every other ideology,
including yours. Unless you have real world example? Community currency
(which I've helped start).
SMITH, Jeffery J., President, Forum on Geonomics
7536 SE Milwaukie Av, Portland Oregon 97202 USA
503/232-1337; jjs@geonomics.org; www.geonomics.org
Share Earth's worth to prosper and conserve.
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