| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] special attention jeff | | Date: | Thursday, March 23, 2006 14:49:43 (-0700) | | From: | Martin Hattersley <hattersleyjm @.........com>
|
| In reply to: | Message 3691 (written by John G Rawson) |
John R. -
Inflation sure is beginning to take off in Alberta - especially in oilsands boom
town Fort McMurray, where housing has almost doubled in price in the past five
years. Money is pouring into the city in wages for construction and oilfield
workers, financed by investors who presumably got their funds from a bank, and
the impact on prices, especially the price of labour, is very noticeable.
What concerns me is the amount of housing going up generally in Alberta,
financed by high ratio low interest mortgages. If the pace of house construction
slows, the amount of cash to be taken out of the local economy through mortgage
payments will be astronomical.
Martin Hattersley
1970-10123-99 St. Edmonton AB Canada
Phone (780)423-4081; Fax (780)425-5247
e-mail: jmartinh@shaw.ca
hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
----- Original Message -----
From: John G Rawson
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] special attention jeff
Would you care to give us one current example of "too much cash causing
inflation?". And if so, where did the cash come from and what effect will that
have on the econolmy in future?
The NZ experience was that inflation of prices was at its worst at a time when
the ratio of "cash" to goods was being reduced drastically. But interest rates
were highest.
Regards. John R.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jeffery Smith <jjs@geonomics.org>
Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] special attention jeff
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:37:41 -0800
>On Mar 21, 2006, at 7:34 AM, Triumphofthepast@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> "Can you give an example of an aspect of cultural [heritage] not
>>showing up as a site value somewhere?" (Jeff)
>>
>> Yes, a shovel.
>
>Try again. What was the value of land before the shovel? What was it
>after? What was the value of Egypt before the plow? What was it
>after? What was the value of Arizona before irrigation? What was it
>after? What was the value of suburbia before cars? What was it
>after? What was the value of Cape Canaveral before rocketry? What
>was it after? See?
>
>>Are there costs that go into the potatoes that are not included in
>>the rent? Obviously there are. It is true that the rent reflects
>>the fact that the ground is near civilization, where shovels are to
>>be had. But I still had to buy the shovel, not to speak of
>>fertilizer, etc. The rent alone, distributed, is not enough to buy
>>the potatoes.
>
>Nor should it be.
>
>> The Social Credit dividend is simple. Here are the potatoes,
>>here is the money - enough to cover all the costs that went into
>>the potatoes, including the rent.
>
>Even without the surplus cash or credit of SC, there can easily be
>enough money to represent the exchange value of all goods and
>services in exchange. Just legalize competing currencies. The bigger
>problem is too much excess cash creating inflation.
>
>> The rent TODAY, on the other hand, constitutes cost of a FUTURE
>>crop.
>
>Sort of. More precisely, it's how much people are willing to spend
>to call some site theirs, based on anticipated value, whether from a
>crop or a mine or a deep harbor or simply a lovely view.
>
>>You said, 'Rent is a natural phenomenon'; but there's nothing
>>natural about saying the cost of a future crop increases because
>>today's crop was good.
>
>What's natural is the market. Bidding on land is a market process.
>
>>to ask production to do double-duty as our money-distributing
>>machine is to hamstring it as far as its real purpose goes.
>
>Good point. Issue any needed new notes to newcomers, who'll consume
>then produce.
>
>>it is a mistake to make the Dividend, whose purpose is to
>>distribute goods already available,
>
>That's one "dividend", but the full array of income - wages,
>"interests" (returns on physical capital, not financial capital),
>and a share of "rent" (Earth's worth) - can do the job splendidly.
>
>> conditional on someone paying us rent-costs for future
>>production.
>
>Everyone pay rent for excluding others, sometimes based on expected
>output (as you explained above), sometimes on the mere anticipated
>psychic joy of a spectacular view.
>
>> P.S. You didn't take me up on my offer of a 20-page introductory
>>piece on social credit. Is that because you are not interested?
>
>It's because your explanations engage me while the longer piece is
>an unknown quantity. Some minds learn best engaged in exchange of
>ideas. Mine is one of them.
>
>SMITH, Jeffery J., President, Forum on Geonomics
>7536 SE Milwaukie Av, Portland Oregon 97202 USA
>503/232-1337; jjs@geonomics.org; www.geonomics.org
>Share Earth's worth to prosper and conserve.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
>at
>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>You're subscribed to this list with the email
>johngrawson@hotmail.com
>For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John R. -</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Inflation sure is beginning to take off in Alberta
- especially in oilsands boom town Fort McMurray, where housing has almost
doubled in price in the past five years. Money is pouring into the city in wages
for construction and oilfield workers, financed by investors who presumably got
their funds from a bank, and the impact on prices, especially the price of
labour, is very noticeable.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>What concerns me is the amount of housing going up
generally in Alberta, financed by high ratio low interest mortgages. If the pace
of house construction slows, the amount of cash to be taken out of the local
economy through mortgage payments will be astronomical.</FONT></DIV><FONT
face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><BR>Martin Hattersley<BR>1970-10123-99 St. Edmonton AB Canada<BR>Phone
(780)423-4081; Fax (780)425-5247<BR>e-mail: <A
href="mailto:jmartinh@shaw.ca">jmartinh@shaw.ca</A><BR>
<A href="mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun.com">hattersleyjm@interbaun.com</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
#000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=johngrawson@hotmail.com href="mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com">John G
Rawson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=socialcredit@elistas.com
href="mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:28
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [socialcredit] special
attention jeff</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<P>Would you care to give us one current example of "too much cash causing
inflation?". And if so, where did the cash come from and what effect will that
have on the econolmy in future?</P>
<P>The NZ experience was that inflation of prices was at its worst at a
time when the ratio of "cash" to goods was being reduced drastically.
But interest rates were highest.</P>Regards. <FONT color=#339933
size=4>John R.</FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 2px solid;
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif">
<HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1>
From: <I>Jeffery Smith <jjs@geonomics.org></I><BR>Reply-To:
<I>socialcredit@elistas.com</I><BR>To:
<I>socialcredit@elistas.com</I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: [socialcredit] special
attention jeff</I><BR>Date: <I>Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:37:41 -0800</I><BR>>On
Mar 21, 2006, at 7:34 AM, Triumphofthepast@aol.com
wrote:<BR>>><BR>>> "Can you give an example of an aspect of
cultural [heritage] not <BR>>>showing up as a site value somewhere?"
(Jeff)<BR>>><BR>>> Yes, a shovel.<BR>><BR>>Try again. What
was the value of land before the shovel? What was it <BR>>after? What was
the value of Egypt before the plow? What was it <BR>>after? What was the
value of Arizona before irrigation? What was it <BR>>after? What was the
value of suburbia before cars? What was it <BR>>after? What was the value
of Cape Canaveral before rocketry? What <BR>>was it after?
See?<BR>><BR>>>Are there costs that go into the potatoes that are
not included in <BR>>>the rent? Obviously there are. It is
true that the rent reflects <BR>>>the fact that the ground is near
civilization, where shovels are to <BR>>>be had. But I still had
to buy the shovel, not to speak of <BR>>>fertilizer, etc. The
rent alone, distributed, is not enough to buy <BR>>>the
potatoes.<BR>><BR>>Nor should it be.<BR>><BR>>> The Social
Credit dividend is simple. Here are the potatoes, <BR>>>here is
the money - enough to cover all the costs that went into <BR>>>the
potatoes, including the rent.<BR>><BR>>Even without the surplus cash
or credit of SC, there can easily be <BR>>enough money to represent the
exchange value of all goods and <BR>>services in exchange. Just legalize
competing currencies. The bigger <BR>>problem is too much excess cash
creating inflation.<BR>><BR>>> The rent TODAY, on the other
hand, constitutes cost of a FUTURE <BR>>>crop.<BR>><BR>>Sort of.
More precisely, it's how much people are willing to spend <BR>>to call
some site theirs, based on anticipated value, whether from a <BR>>crop or
a mine or a deep harbor or simply a lovely view.<BR>><BR>>>You
said, 'Rent is a natural phenomenon'; but there's nothing
<BR>>>natural about saying the cost of a future crop increases because
<BR>>>today's crop was good.<BR>><BR>>What's natural is the
market. Bidding on land is a market process.<BR>><BR>>>to ask
production to do double-duty as our money-distributing <BR>>>machine
is to hamstring it as far as its real purpose goes.<BR>><BR>>Good
point. Issue any needed new notes to newcomers, who'll consume <BR>>then
produce.<BR>><BR>>>it is a mistake to make the Dividend, whose
purpose is to <BR>>>distribute goods already
available,<BR>><BR>>That's one "dividend", but the full array of
income - wages, <BR>>"interests" (returns on physical capital, not
financial capital), <BR>>and a share of "rent" (Earth's worth) - can do
the job splendidly.<BR>><BR>>> conditional on someone paying us
rent-costs for future <BR>>>production.<BR>><BR>>Everyone pay
rent for excluding others, sometimes based on expected <BR>>output (as
you explained above), sometimes on the mere anticipated <BR>>psychic joy
of a spectacular view.<BR>><BR>>> P.S. You didn't take me up
on my offer of a 20-page introductory <BR>>>piece on social
credit. Is that because you are not interested?<BR>><BR>>It's
because your explanations engage me while the longer piece is <BR>>an
unknown quantity. Some minds learn best engaged in exchange of
<BR>>ideas. Mine is one of them.<BR>><BR>>SMITH, Jeffery J.,
President, Forum on Geonomics<BR>>7536 SE Milwaukie Av, Portland Oregon
97202 USA<BR>>503/232-1337; jjs@geonomics.org;
www.geonomics.org<;BR>>Share Earth's worth to prosper and
conserve.<BR>><BR>>---------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>Some
introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
<BR>>at<BR>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;BR>>You're
subscribed to this list with the email
<BR>>johngrawson@hotmail.com<BR>>For more information, visit
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<;BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV><BR
clear=all>
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