eListas Logo
   The Most Complete Mailing Lists, Groups and Newsletters System on the Net
      HOME    SERVICES    SOLUTIONS    COMPANY    
Home > My Lists > socialcredit > Messages

 Message Index 
 Messages from 3784 to 3843 
SubjectFrom
Re: [socialcredit] Kenneth
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
new breed Triumpho
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
RE: [socialcredit] Kenneth
"Funny Money" ~ Jo thomsonh
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Kenneth
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
NYTimes.com: Chris keithwil
NYTimes.com: Seizi keithwil
Scrip thomsonh
RE: [socialcredit] Kenneth
Re: [socialcredit] keith wi
RE: [socialcredit] keith wi
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
Questions for Mich Keith Wi
Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
rugby, racing, and Triumpho
Christ and Politic Triumpho
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
Guernsey's "magic MODERATO
Re: [socialcredit] Adavans
Re: [socialcredit] Rex Teag
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Steiner Triumpho
Re: [socialcredit] Jeffery
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
Re: [socialcredit] Rex Teag
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
Re: [socialcredit] Jeffery
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
Re: [socialcredit] Jeffery
Is an SC dividend Triumpho
Re: [socialcredit] Jeffery
Steiner Triumpho
Joe and Jeff Triumpho
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
Mike Gravel William
Re: [socialcredit] Jeffery
Re: [socialcredit] Jeffery
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
Re: [socialcredit] Kenneth
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
 << Prev. 60 | Next 60 >>
 
socialcredit
Main page    Messages | Post | Files | Database | Polls | Events | My Preferences
Message 3808     < Previous | Next >
Reply to this message
Subject:RE: [socialcredit] "Funny Money" ~ Joe replies to Ken (Repy to Wally)
Date:Sunday, April 9, 2006  09:42:23 (-0700)
From:thomsonhiyu <thomsonhiyu @....ca>
In reply to:Message 3805 (written by Wallace M. Klinck)

Hi Wally,

 

Many thanks for the additional information.  As you’re no doubt aware, political party ‘Social Credit’ here in BC also devolved into a cult of ‘leader worship’ as it grew old in office under WAC Bennett.  And that was about all it was under his son Bill, and then Bill Vander Zalm.  

 

Now I see there’s some talk that Preston Manning might become your new ‘Conservative’ premier.  And I couldn’t help thinking, in reading your comments below about how some viewed E C Manning’s penetration into the ‘inner circles’ of ‘high finance’ at the Canadian Imperial Bank as a great coup for ‘Social Credit’, how they’ll also probably tout son Preston as being the torch-bearer for ‘social credit’ into the ‘inner circle’ of  Alberta’s current governing  clique.  The more things change, the more they remain the same.

 

Best wishes,

 

Joe

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Wallace M. Klinck [mailto:wmklinck@shaw.ca]
Sent:
April 8, 2006 11:09 PM
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] "Funny Money" ~ Joe replies to Ken

 

Thanks, Joe, for this comprehensive review of the Alberta "Social Credit" Government flirtation with the Gesellist disappearing money "Prosperity Certificate" scheme.  It was certainly not Social Credit and reflected a policy which revealed a lack of understanding of genuine Social Credit with regard to both technical and philosophical aspects .  As Mr. H. E. Nichols, then Research Director for the Alberta "Social Credit" League privately, and correctly, observed to me one day, Douglas said that money disappears too rapidly already and the need is to slow down rather than accelerate its rate of cancellation.  Mr. Nichols was knowledgeable re Social Credit but the Party under the Manning leadership had abandoned its essential policies and Mr. Nichols, frail and elderly, was retained, and restrained from actively promoting Douglas's ideas, seemingly just to pacify League Members who might show tendencies of pursuing "difficult" enquiries as the the real nature of Social Credit and what was being done by the League to promote a wider understanding of it.  Elimination of meaningful the established study groups had effectively neutralized the possibility of promulgating genuine Social Credit ideas and this effectively destroyed the educational base required for their advancement.  Premier Manning, a man of little formal education, held an almost hypnotic psychological spell over much of the League membership who, being frequently of rather ill-informed fundamentalist "Christian" persuasion, were drawn into a personality cult relationship, making rational debate or criticism of the leadership quite futile in consideration of its rather naive political and religious power base.  Needless to say Manning became the enduring "darling" of the media for the wreckage which he and certain other allied interests brought to the Social Credit movement in Alberta and by extension to the country as a whole.  When in retirement he became a director of one of Canada's major banks, certain of his deluded supporters, or one might more correctly say worshippers, were heard to say that now that he had penetrated the centre of financial power he would change the system from within!  They waited in vain.

 

Sincerely

Wally

----- Original Message -----

From: thomsonhiyu

Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 11:50 PM

Subject: [socialcredit] "Funny Money" ~ Joe replies to Ken

 

 

 

(Ken wrote:- )  Aberhart may well have attracted ridicule from the

ignorant, or the discomforted for his stamped money.

but the citizens of Worgle in Austria, and

Shwanenkirchen in Bavaria most certainly did not.

 

The effects of their enlightened actions were there

for all to see. In fact so successful were they that

it drew down the wrath of their respective Central

(Private ) banks, as a contravention of their monopoly

rights :-(((

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

(Joe replies:- ) Aberhart, and political party ‘Social Credit’ everywhere, attracted lasting ridicule for imposing that “Gesellist” based ideology. Which has precious little in common with ‘real’ Social Credit.  And that well-deserved ridicule came  from people who were far from ‘ignorant’, or ones, (bankers), supposedly ‘discomforted’ in the manner you infer, Ken.

 

If anything is clear, that whole episode is a perfect demonstration of the folly of any ‘politician’ elected to ‘represent’ the ‘common will’ believing he has been selected for his ‘uncommon intelligence’ in deciding what detailed ‘technique’ could best be used to achieve an objective. Rather than concentrating on his proper purview, clearly describing the ‘results’ that are desired by his constituents.  ‘Technique’ is for the ‘tecnician’. 

 

Especially when the ‘elected politician’ can generally demonstrate  neither the technical training nor detail knowledge necessary to determine the ‘means’ to the desired ‘end’. Additionally, in the case of Premier Aberhart, there is little doubt he initially understood neither the ‘philosophy’ nor the ‘principles’ behind the ‘policy’ called ‘social credit’.   

 

It is believed that Aberhart, on becoming Alberta Premier, and after failing to avail himself almost completely of Douglas’s many recommendations and advice; details the “Government” of Alberta had hired him as “Chief Reconstruction Advisor” to provide, (to the point where Douglas sought early  release from the two year contract retaining his services), was influenced by the earlier, seemingly successful issue of ‘scrip’ by the town of Raymond, as a temporary ‘cure’ for the then prevailing shortage of ‘money’.   And later, the additional hired advice of a ‘Gesellist’, E S. Woodward, induced him to go the ‘Prosperity Certificate’ route. 

 

The Alberta town of Raymond, initially in an effort to keep their school open in the cash-strapped days of the Depression when its residents couldn’t pay their taxes, resorted to issuing ‘scrip’.  This local ‘paper’ came to serve the same purpose of the then unavailable ‘banknotes’ comprising official Canadian currency.  But only because the whole town was willing to ‘accept’ this scrip as a Canadian ‘money’ substitute.  Taxes to the Town itself, and municipal water bills, could be paid in it. 

 

And those working for that municipality, teachers, etc., would ‘accept’ it as their wages. (Rather than being laid off, and getting nothing.) Local commerce, which would have otherwise been more seriously impacted by the nation wide ‘contraction of credit’ still manifesting itself in a local ‘cash’ shortage, was able to carry on using this ‘scrip’. Which was always ‘backed’ by local ‘goods and services’. The entire scheme rested on the ‘faith’ Raymond’s residents had that they could overcome their problems.  Aberhart came to believe this success could be emulated on a larger scale, to restore ‘trade’ in the Province as a whole, ‘backed’ by its ‘resources’.  All it took was ‘faith’.

 

But the ‘faith’ that  worked in Raymond on a limited, local basis was not so certain to work on a larger scale.   In a more complex, broader economy.  The Alberta Government was basically ‘broke’; it had no accumulated ‘foreign (Canadian, or any other national) exchange reserves’ to purchase imports; there was no indication the Banks would accept ‘Provincial’ scrip, (especially after the Aberhart Government had already defaulted on Provincial bonds), and there was no indication any ‘wholesalers’ bringing in goods from out-of-Province would accept it either. 

 

Douglas had earlier advised how the prevailing shortage of money in circulation could be alleviated using a system of ‘cheques’ drawn on ‘a creation of credit’ administered by the Banks in a way that would not have affected their operations or ‘cash reserves’.  While still enabling restoration of adequate ‘effective demand’, and also simultaneously establishing a very important principle as to the public ‘ownership’ of credit.

 

But Aberhart had obviously not understood the concept, and/or rejected the underlying importance of it out of hand.  Instead, after Douglas had ceased to issue advice to him (that was seldom followed in any case), he proposed to issue his Government’s own ‘money’ in the form of ‘Prosperity Certificates’.  And to ensure this Provincial ‘scrip’ would ‘circulate’ and be used to ‘stimulate trade’, he followed the inane Gesellist proposal of putting a tax on it of 1% per week.  Which had to be paid, if it could be paid, in already short Canadian currency.  This was a necessary expense each week the ‘Certificate’ was held to maintain its ‘par value’, and accomplished by buying another ‘stamp’ each week to affix to  it.

 

The ‘problems’ with this proposal should be quite obvious. First, there is no scope using this type of ‘disappearing money’ for any ‘savings’ or ‘investment’.  It’s a ‘hot potato’.  It has to be spent quickly or it loses its purchasing power. Hardly a ‘cure’ in any area already suffering a ‘shortage of purchasing power’.

 

Second, to get any business to ‘accept’ them at all, the ‘Certificates’ needed to be ‘backed’ by Canadian currency.  For which they could be exchanged after a certain period had elapsed. ‘Resources’ just wouldn’t do in the middle of a Depression. 

 

Third, the ‘Certificates’ couldn’t be used to make liquor purchases at Alberta Government Liquor Stores, (virtually ensuring their unpopularity with a great many who might’ve been otherwise more favourably disposed to them!, nor could they be used to pay any Alberta Provincial taxes, except the sales tax. 

 

Fourth, many ‘Social Credit’ Alberta MLAs and Cabinet Ministers were reluctant to accept them even in ‘partial’ payment of their salaries. (Such a ‘public’ demonstration of ‘faith’ that didn’t go un-noticed!) 

 

Fifth, and probably the most serious problem of all, ‘consumers’ deeply resented having to pay the ‘stamp tax’. And who could blame them?

 

 Rather than being the popular precursor to Aberhart’s more comprehensive, but apparently also hugely flawed form of ‘Alberta’ Social Credit, well over half the first issue of “Prosperity Certificates” were cashed in for Canadian currency at the earliest possible moment.  Only a minute fraction were ever re-issued.  It was an ill-conceived, (though no doubt well-intentioned), scheme right from the start.  And has had the lasting effect of making the ‘political’ name ‘Social Credit’ synonomous with “funny money” ever since.

 

  

 

 

 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
You're subscribed to this list with the email wmklinck@shaw.ca
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/305 - Release Date: 4/8/2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at 
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium 
You're subscribed to this list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca 
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit 

Services:  HomeList Hosting ServicesIndustry Solutions
Your Account:  Sign UpMy ListsMy PreferencesStart a List
General:  About UsNewsPrivacy PolicyNo spamContact Us

eListas Seal
eListas is a registered trademark of eListas Networks S.L.
Copyright © 1999-2006 AR Networks, All Rights Reserved
Terms of Service