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"Funny Money" ~ Jo thomsonh

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Subject: Re: [socialcredit] "Funny Money" ~ Keith to Martin
Date: Monday, April 10, 2006 15:20:01 (-0600)
From: Martin Hattersley <hattersleyjm @.........com>

In reply to: Message 3818 (written by Keith Wilde)
Yes, you're right. I haven't got the book in front of me at the moment, but I believe the date was around 1969. Alberta Socreds were defeated as a government in 1972. Martin Hattersley 1970-10123-99 St. Edmonton AB Canada Phone (780)423-4081; Fax (780)425-5247 e-mail: jmartinh@shaw.ca hattersleyjm@interbaun.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Wilde To: socialcredit@elistas.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [socialcredit] "Funny Money" ~ Keith to Martin It's a trivial point, Martin, but surely you must have made a typo in the date of Preston Manning's book. In 1964 he was still an undergraduate at the U of A, and in 1956 he couldn't have been much older than 16. He may have been overly impressed by the "standard economics" dished out by our professors, but I somehow doubt that he would have been upsetting the applecart, especially in his father's name while the latter was still Premier (as I recall). Keith ----- Original Message ----- From: Martin Hattersley To: socialcredit@elistas.com Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [socialcredit] "Funny Money" ~ Joe replies to Ken (Repy to Wally) I think that there's no doubt that Preston Manning, in particular, was responsible for torpedoing the element of Social Credit in the whole Social Credit movement in Alberta. His 1956 book, issued under his father's name, essentially gave the idea that Social Crediters should abandon the party in favour of a new Conservatism. His "Reform" party stood for everything except monetary reform! Reminds me of the old saying that "Millions would rather die than think. Millions do." On Aberhart's adoption of Gesell type "stamped money" - I think you have to realize the need at that time for *any* type of circulating medium that could be created by a Provincial government. Of course Gesell isn't Douglas, but Aberhart following Gesell rather than Douglas at that time is perhaps following the precept that "I'd rather have my doing something badly, than you doing nothing at all." I may be a little biassed here, as I have in my papers a memo to Aberhart from my father, Marshall Hattersley, suggesting this type of Gesell money, argued more from a constitutional lawyer's standpoint to help Aberhart find a way to create credit at a time when the economy had more or less come to a full stop, raher than fully solving all the Province's liquidity problems at that time. In the end, the Treasury Branches proved a more viable solution - and somehow got away with what I would consider a completely illegal Provincial run banking enterprise that has been too popular to kill for now some seventy years. Martin Hattersley 1970-10123-99 St., EDMONTON AB CANADA Phone (780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247 e-mail: hattersleyjm@interbaun.com ----- Original Message ----- From: thomsonhiyu To: socialcredit@elistas.com Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: RE: [socialcredit] "Funny Money" ~ Joe replies to Ken (Repy to Wally) Hi Wally, Many thanks for the additional information. As you're no doubt aware, political party 'Social Credit' here in BC also devolved into a cult of 'leader worship' as it grew old in office under WAC Bennett. And that was about all it was under his son Bill, and then Bill Vander Zalm. Now I see there's some talk that Preston Manning might become your new 'Conservative' premier. And I couldn't help thinking, in reading your comments below about how some viewed E C Manning's penetration into the 'inner circles' of 'high finance' at the Canadian Imperial Bank as a great coup for 'Social Credit', how they'll also probably tout son Preston as being the torch-bearer for 'social credit' into the 'inner circle' of Alberta's current governing clique. The more things change, the more they remain the same. Best wishes, Joe -----Original Message----- From: Wallace M. Klinck [mailto:wmklinck@shaw.ca] Sent: April 8, 2006 11:09 PM To: socialcredit@elistas.com Subject: Re: [socialcredit] "Funny Money" ~ Joe replies to Ken Thanks, Joe, for this comprehensive review of the Alberta "Social Credit" Government flirtation with the Gesellist disappearing money "Prosperity Certificate" scheme. It was certainly not Social Credit and reflected a policy which revealed a lack of understanding of genuine Social Credit with regard to both technical and philosophical aspects . As Mr. H. E. Nichols, then Research Director for the Alberta "Social Credit" League privately, and correctly, observed to me one day, Douglas said that money disappears too rapidly already and the need is to slow down rather than accelerate its rate of cancellation. Mr. Nichols was knowledgeable re Social Credit but the Party under the Manning leadership had abandoned its essential policies and Mr. Nichols, frail and elderly, was retained, and restrained from actively promoting Douglas's ideas, seemingly just to pacify League Members who might show tendencies of pursuing "difficult" enquiries as the the real nature of Social Credit and what was being done by the League to promote a wider understanding of it. Elimination of meaningful the established study groups had effectively neutralized the possibility of promulgating genuine Social Credit ideas and this effectively destroyed the educational base required for their advancement. Premier Manning, a man of little formal education, held an almost hypnotic psychological spell over much of the League membership who, being frequently of rather ill-informed fundamentalist "Christian" persuasion, were drawn into a personality cult relationship, making rational debate or criticism of the leadership quite futile in consideration of its rather naive political and religious power base. Needless to say Manning became the enduring "darling" of the media for the wreckage which he and certain other allied interests brought to the Social Credit movement in Alberta and by extension to the country as a whole. When in retirement he became a director of one of Canada's major banks, certain of his deluded supporters, or one might more correctly say worshippers, were heard to say that now that he had penetrated the centre of financial power he would change the system from within! They waited in vain. Sincerely Wally ----- Original Message ----- From: thomsonhiyu To: socialcredit@elistas.com Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 11:50 PM Subject: [socialcredit] "Funny Money" ~ Joe replies to Ken (Ken wrote:- ) Aberhart may well have attracted ridicule from the ignorant, or the discomforted for his stamped money. but the citizens of Worgle in Austria, and Shwanenkirchen in Bavaria most certainly did not. The effects of their enlightened actions were there for all to see. In fact so successful were they that it drew down the wrath of their respective Central (Private ) banks, as a contravention of their monopoly rights :-((( ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (Joe replies:- ) Aberhart, and political party 'Social Credit' everywhere, attracted lasting ridicule for imposing that "Gesellist" based ideology. Which has precious little in common with 'real' Social Credit. And that well-deserved ridicule came from people who were far from 'ignorant', or ones, (bankers), supposedly 'discomforted' in the manner you infer, Ken. If anything is clear, that whole episode is a perfect demonstration of the folly of any 'politician' elected to 'represent' the 'common will' believing he has been selected for his 'uncommon intelligence' in deciding what detailed 'technique' could best be used to achieve an objective. Rather than concentrating on his proper purview, clearly describing the 'results' that are desired by his constituents. 'Technique' is for the 'tecnician'. Especially when the 'elected politician' can generally demonstrate neither the technical training nor detail knowledge necessary to determine the 'means' to the desired 'end'. Additionally, in the case of Premier Aberhart, there is little doubt he initially understood neither the 'philosophy' nor the 'principles' behind the 'policy' called 'social credit'. It is believed that Aberhart, on becoming Alberta Premier, and after failing to avail himself almost completely of Douglas's many recommendations and advice; details the "Government" of Alberta had hired him as "Chief Reconstruction Advisor" to provide, (to the point where Douglas sought early release from the two year contract retaining his services), was influenced by the earlier, seemingly successful issue of 'scrip' by the town of Raymond, as a temporary 'cure' for the then prevailing shortage of 'money'. And later, the additional hired advice of a 'Gesellist', E S. Woodward, induced him to go the 'Prosperity Certificate' route. The Alberta town of Raymond, initially in an effort to keep their school open in the cash-strapped days of the Depression when its residents couldn't pay their taxes, resorted to issuing 'scrip'. This local 'paper' came to serve the same purpose of the then unavailable 'banknotes' comprising official Canadian currency. But only because the whole town was willing to 'accept' this scrip as a Canadian 'money' substitute. Taxes to the Town itself, and municipal water bills, could be paid in it. And those working for that municipality, teachers, etc., would 'accept' it as their wages. (Rather than being laid off, and getting nothing.) Local commerce, which would have otherwise been more seriously impacted by the nation wide 'contraction of credit' still manifesting itself in a local 'cash' shortage, was able to carry on using this 'scrip'. Which was always 'backed' by local 'goods and services'. The entire scheme rested on the 'faith' Raymond's residents had that they could overcome their problems. Aberhart came to believe this success could be emulated on a larger scale, to restore 'trade' in the Province as a whole, 'backed' by its 'resources'. All it took was 'faith'. But the 'faith' that worked in Raymond on a limited, local basis was not so certain to work on a larger scale. In a more complex, broader economy. The Alberta Government was basically 'broke'; it had no accumulated 'foreign (Canadian, or any other national) exchange reserves' to purchase imports; there was no indication the Banks would accept 'Provincial' scrip, (especially after the Aberhart Government had already defaulted on Provincial bonds), and there was no indication any 'wholesalers' bringing in goods from out-of-Province would accept it either. Douglas had earlier advised how the prevailing shortage of money in circulation could be alleviated using a system of 'cheques' drawn on 'a creation of credit' administered by the Banks in a way that would not have affected their operations or 'cash reserves'. While still enabling restoration of adequate 'effective demand', and also simultaneously establishing a very important principle as to the public 'ownership' of credit. But Aberhart had obviously not understood the concept, and/or rejected the underlying importance of it out of hand. Instead, after Douglas had ceased to issue advice to him (that was seldom followed in any case), he proposed to issue his Government's own 'money' in the form of 'Prosperity Certificates'. And to ensure this Provincial 'scrip' would 'circulate' and be used to 'stimulate trade', he followed the inane Gesellist proposal of putting a tax on it of 1% per week. Which had to be paid, if it could be paid, in already short Canadian currency. This was a necessary expense each week the 'Certificate' was held to maintain its 'par value', and accomplished by buying another 'stamp' each week to affix to it. The 'problems' with this proposal should be quite obvious. First, there is no scope using this type of 'disappearing money' for any 'savings' or 'investment'. It's a 'hot potato'. It has to be spent quickly or it loses its purchasing power. Hardly a 'cure' in any area already suffering a 'shortage of purchasing power'. Second, to get any business to 'accept' them at all, the 'Certificates' needed to be 'backed' by Canadian currency. For which they could be exchanged after a certain period had elapsed. 'Resources' just wouldn't do in the middle of a Depression. Third, the 'Certificates' couldn't be used to make liquor purchases at Alberta Government Liquor Stores, (virtually ensuring their unpopularity with a great many who might've been otherwise more favourably disposed to them!, nor could they be used to pay any Alberta Provincial taxes, except the sales tax. Fourth, many 'Social Credit' Alberta MLAs and Cabinet Ministers were reluctant to accept them even in 'partial' payment of their salaries. (Such a 'public' demonstration of 'faith' that didn't go un-noticed!) Fifth, and probably the most serious problem of all, 'consumers' deeply resented having to pay the 'stamp tax'. And who could blame them? Rather than being the popular precursor to Aberhart's more comprehensive, but apparently also hugely flawed form of 'Alberta' Social Credit, well over half the first issue of "Prosperity Certificates" were cashed in for Canadian currency at the earliest possible moment. Only a minute fraction were ever re-issued. It was an ill-conceived, (though no doubt well-intentioned), scheme right from the start. And has had the lasting effect of making the 'political' name 'Social Credit' synonomous with "funny money" ever since. ---------------------------------------------------------------------Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are athttp://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendiumYou're subscribed to this list with the email wmklinck@shaw.caFor more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit ------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/305 - Release Date: 4/8/2006 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email hattersleyjm@interbaun.com For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit -------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 - Release Date: 09/04/2006 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email keithwilde@sympatico.ca For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 - Release Date: 09/04/2006 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email keithwilde@sympatico.ca For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email hattersleyjm@interbaun.com For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date: 4/10/2006 ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C65CB2.3CB70800 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"; xmlns:v = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content=Word.Document name=ProgId> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR> <META content="Microsoft Word 10" name=Originator><LINK href="cid:filelist.xml@01C65BB9.E6AE5560" rel=File-List><LINK href="cid:editdata.mso@01C65BB9.E6AE5560" rel=Edit-Time-Data><o:SmartTagType name="country-region" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="City" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="time" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="date" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="State" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="place" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType> <STYLE>  </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY lang=EN-CA style="tab-interval: .5in" vLink=purple link=blue bgColor=white> <DIV>Yes, you're right. I haven't got the book in front of me at the moment, but I believe the date was around 1969. Alberta Socreds were defeated as a government in 1972.</DIV> <DIV> Martin Hattersley 1970-10123-99 St. Edmonton AB Canada Phone (780)423-4081; Fax (780)425-5247 e-mail: <A href="mailto:jmartinh@shaw.ca">jmartinh@shaw.ca</A> <A href="mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun.com">hattersleyjm@interbaun.com</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: <A title=keithwilde@sympatico.ca href="mailto:keithwilde@sympatico.ca">Keith Wilde</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A title=socialcredit@elistas.com href="mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 11:09 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: Re: [socialcredit] "Funny Money" ~ Keith to Martin</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's a trivial point, Martin, but surely you must have made a typo in the date of Preston Manning's book. In 1964 he was still an undergraduate at the U of A, and in 1956 he couldn't have been much older than 16. He may have been overly impressed by the "standard economics" dished out by our professors, but I somehow doubt that he would have been upsetting the applecart, especially in his father's name while the latter was still Premier (as I recall).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Keith</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: <A title=hattersleyjm@interbaun.com href="mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun.com">Martin Hattersley</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A title=socialcredit@elistas.com href="mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 7:18 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: Re: [socialcredit] "Funny Money" ~ Joe replies to Ken (Repy to Wally)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think that there's no doubt that Preston Manning, in particular, was responsible for torpedoing the element of Social Credit in the whole Social Credit movement in Alberta. His 1956 book, issued under his father's name, essentially gave the idea that Social Crediters should abandon the party in favour of a new Conservatism. His "Reform" party stood for everything except monetary reform!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Reminds me of the old saying that "Millions would rather die than think. Millions do."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On Aberhart's adoption of Gesell type "stamped money" - I think you have to realize the need at that time for *any* type of circulating medium that could be created by a Provincial government. Of course Gesell isn't Douglas, but Aberhart following Gesell rather than Douglas at that time is perhaps following the precept that "I'd rather have my doing something badly, than you doing nothing at all."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I may be a little biassed here, as I have in my papers a memo to Aberhart from my father, Marshall Hattersley, suggesting this type of Gesell money, argued more from a constitutional lawyer's standpoint to help Aberhart find a way to create credit at a time when the economy had more or less come to a full stop, raher than fully solving all the Province's liquidity problems at that time. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the end, the Treasury Branches proved a more viable solution - and somehow got away with what I would consider a completely illegal Provincial run banking enterprise that has been too popular to kill for now some seventy years.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Martin Hattersley 1970-10123-99 St., EDMONTON AB CANADA Phone (780)423-4081;Fax(780)425-5247 e-mail: <A href="mailto:hattersleyjm@interbaun.com">hattersleyjm@interbaun.com</A></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: <A title=thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca href="mailto:thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca">thomsonhiyu</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A title=socialcredit@elistas.com href="mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 10:42 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: [socialcredit] "Funny Money" ~ Joe replies to Ken (Repy to Wally)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=Section1> Hi Wally,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Many thanks for the additional information. As you’re no doubt aware, political party ‘Social Credit’ here in BC also devolved into a cult of ‘leader worship’ as it grew old in office under WAC Bennett. And that was about all it was under his son Bill, and then Bill Vander Zalm. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Now I see there’s some talk that Preston Manning might become your new ‘Conservative’ premier. And I couldn’t help thinking, in reading your comments below about how some viewed E C Manning’s penetration into the ‘inner circles’ of ‘high finance’ at the Canadian Imperial Bank as a great coup for ‘Social Credit’, how they’ll also probably tout son Preston as being the torch-bearer for ‘social credit’ into the ‘inner circle’ of Alberta’s current governing clique. The more things change, the more they remain the same.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Best wishes,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Joe<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> -----Original Message----- From: Wallace M. Klinck [mailto:wmklinck@shaw.ca] Sent: <st1:date Year="2006" Day="8" Month="4">April 8, 2006</st1:date> <st1:time Minute="9" Hour="23">11:09 PM</st1:time> To: socialcredit@elistas.com Subject: Re: [socialcredit] "Funny Money" ~ Joe replies to Ken <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> Thanks, Joe, for this comprehensive review of the <st1:State><st1:place>Alberta</st1:place></st1:State> "Social Credit" Government flirtation with the Gesellist disappearing money "Prosperity Certificate" scheme. It was certainly not Social Credit and reflected a policy which revealed a lack of understanding of genuine Social Credit with regard to both technical and philosophical aspects . As Mr. H. E. Nichols, then Research Director for the <st1:State><st1:place>Alberta</st1:place></st1:State> "Social Credit" League privately, and correctly, observed to me one day, <st1:place>Douglas</st1:place> said that money disappears too rapidly already and the need is to slow down rather than accelerate its rate of cancellation. Mr. Nichols was knowledgeable re Social Credit but the Party under the Manning leadership had abandoned its essential policies and Mr. Nichols, frail and elderly, was retained, and restrained from actively promoting Douglas's ideas, seemingly just to pacify League Members who might show tendencies of pursuing "difficult" enquiries as the the real nature of Social Credit and what was being done by the League to promote a wider understanding of it. Elimination of meaningful the established study groups had effectively neutralized the possibility of promulgating genuine Social Credit ideas and this effectively destroyed the educational base required for their advancement. Premier Manning, a man of little formal education, held an almost hypnotic psychological spell over much of the League membership who, being frequently of rather ill-informed fundamentalist "Christian" persuasion, were drawn into a personality cult relationship, making rational debate or criticism of the leadership quite futile in consideration of its rather naive political and religious power base. Needless to say Manning became the enduring "darling" of the media for the wreckage which he and certain other allied interests brought to the Social Credit movement in <st1:State><st1:place>Alberta</st1:place></st1:State> and by extension to the country as a whole. When in retirement he became a director of one of <st1:country-region><st1:place>Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region>'s major banks, certain of his deluded supporters, or one might more correctly say worshippers, were heard to say that now that he had penetrated the centre of financial power he would change the system from within! They waited in vain.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Sincerely<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Wally<o:p></o:p></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> <DIV> ----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV style="font-color: black"> From: <A title=thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca href="mailto:thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca">thomsonhiyu</A> <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> To: <A title=socialcredit@elistas.com href="mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com">socialcredit@elistas.com</A> <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Sent: <st1:date Year="2006" Day="7" Month="4">Friday, April 07, 2006</st1:date> <st1:time Minute="50" Hour="23">11:50 PM</st1:time><o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Subject: [socialcredit] "Funny Money" ~ Joe replies to Ken<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <o:p> </o:p></DIV> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> (Ken wrote:- ) Aberhart may well have attracted ridicule from the<o:p></o:p> ignorant, or the discomforted for his stamped money.<o:p></o:p> but the citizens of Worgle in <st1:country-region><st1:place>Austria</st1:place></st1:country-region>, and<o:p></o:p> Shwanenkirchen in <st1:State><st1:place>Bavaria</st1:place></st1:State> most certainly did not. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> The effects of their enlightened actions were there<o:p></o:p> for all to see. In fact so successful were they that<o:p></o:p> it drew down the wrath of their respective Central<o:p></o:p> (Private ) banks, as a contravention of their monopoly<o:p></o:p> rights :-(((<o:p></o:p> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> (Joe replies:- ) Aberhart, and political party ‘Social Credit’ everywhere, attracted lasting ridicule for imposing that “Gesellist” based ideology. Which has precious little in common with ‘real’ Social Credit. And that well-deserved ridicule came from people who were far from ‘ignorant’, or ones, (bankers), supposedly ‘discomforted’ in the manner you infer, Ken. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> If anything is clear, that whole episode is a perfect demonstration of the folly of any ‘politician’ elected to ‘represent’ the ‘common will’ believing he has been selected for his ‘uncommon intelligence’ in deciding what detailed ‘technique’ could best be used to achieve an objective. Rather than concentrating on his proper purview, clearly describing the ‘results’ that are desired by his constituents. ‘Technique’ is for the ‘tecnician’. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Especially when the ‘elected politician’ can generally demonstrate neither the technical training nor detail knowledge necessary to determine the ‘means’ to the desired ‘end’. Additionally, in the case of Premier Aberhart, there is little doubt he initially understood neither the ‘philosophy’ nor the ‘principles’ behind the ‘policy’ called ‘social credit’. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> It is believed that Aberhart, on becoming Alberta Premier, and after failing to avail himself almost completely of Douglas’s many recommendations and advice; details the “Government” of Alberta had hired him as “Chief Reconstruction Advisor” to provide, (to the point where Douglas sought early release from the two year contract retaining his services), was influenced by the earlier, seemingly successful issue of ‘scrip’ by the town of Raymond, as a temporary ‘cure’ for the then prevailing shortage of ‘money’. And later, the additional hired advice of a ‘Gesellist’, E S. Woodward, induced him to go the ‘Prosperity Certificate’ route. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> The <st1:State><st1:place>Alberta</st1:place></st1:State> town of <st1:City><st1:place>Raymond</st1:place></st1:City>, initially in an effort to keep their school open in the cash-strapped days of the Depression when its residents couldn’t pay their taxes, resorted to issuing ‘scrip’. This local ‘paper’ came to serve the same purpose of the then unavailable ‘banknotes’ comprising official Canadian currency. But only because the whole town was willing to ‘accept’ this scrip as a Canadian ‘money’ substitute. Taxes to the Town itself, and municipal water bills, could be paid in it. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> And those working for that municipality, teachers, etc., would ‘accept’ it as their wages. (Rather than being laid off, and getting nothing.) Local commerce, which would have otherwise been more seriously impacted by the nation wide ‘contraction of credit’ still manifesting itself in a local ‘cash’ shortage, was able to carry on using this ‘scrip’. Which was always ‘backed’ by local ‘goods and services’. The entire scheme rested on the ‘faith’ Raymond’s residents had that they could overcome their problems. Aberhart came to believe this success could be emulated on a larger scale, to restore ‘trade’ in the Province as a whole, ‘backed’ by its ‘resources’. All it took was ‘faith’.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> But the ‘faith’ that worked in Raymond on a limited, local basis was not so certain to work on a larger scale. In a more complex, broader economy. The Alberta Government was basically ‘broke’; it had no accumulated ‘foreign (Canadian, or any other national) exchange reserves’ to purchase imports; there was no indication the Banks would accept ‘Provincial’ scrip, (especially after the Aberhart Government had already defaulted on Provincial bonds), and there was no indication any ‘wholesalers’ bringing in goods from out-of-Province would accept it either. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Douglas had earlier advised how the prevailing shortage of money in circulation could be alleviated using a system of ‘cheques’ drawn on ‘a creation of credit’ administered by the Banks in a way that would not have affected their operations or ‘cash reserves’. While still enabling restoration of adequate ‘effective demand’, and also simultaneously establishing a very important principle as to the public ‘ownership’ of credit. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> But Aberhart had obviously not understood the concept, and/or rejected the underlying importance of it out of hand. Instead, after <st1:place>Douglas</st1:place> had ceased to issue advice to him (that was seldom followed in any case), he proposed to issue his Government’s own ‘money’ in the form of ‘Prosperity Certificates’. And to ensure this Provincial ‘scrip’ would ‘circulate’ and be used to ‘stimulate trade’, he followed the inane Gesellist proposal of putting a tax on it of 1% per week. Which had to be paid, if it could be paid, in already short Canadian currency. This was a necessary expense each week the ‘Certificate’ was held to maintain its ‘par value’, and accomplished by buying another ‘stamp’ each week to affix to it. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> The ‘problems’ with this proposal should be quite obvious. First, there is no scope using this type of ‘disappearing money’ for any ‘savings’ or ‘investment’. It’s a ‘hot potato’. It has to be spent quickly or it loses its purchasing power. Hardly a ‘cure’ in any area already suffering a ‘shortage of purchasing power’. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Second, to get any business to ‘accept’ them at all, the ‘Certificates’ needed to be ‘backed’ by Canadian currency. For which they could be exchanged after a certain period had elapsed. ‘Resources’ just wouldn’t do in the middle of a Depression. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Third, the ‘Certificates’ couldn’t be used to make liquor purchases at Alberta Government Liquor Stores, (virtually ensuring their unpopularity with a great many who might’ve been otherwise more favourably disposed to them!, nor could they be used to pay any Alberta Provincial taxes, except the sales tax. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Fourth, many ‘Social Credit’ Alberta MLAs and Cabinet Ministers were reluctant to accept them even in ‘partial’ payment of their salaries. (Such a ‘public’ demonstration of ‘faith’ that didn’t go un-noticed!) <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Fifth, and probably the most serious problem of all, ‘consumers’ deeply resented having to pay the ‘stamp tax’. And who could blame them?<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Rather than being the popular precursor to Aberhart’s more comprehensive, but apparently also hugely flawed form of ‘<st1:State><st1:place>Alberta</st1:place></st1:State>’ Social Credit, well over half the first issue of “Prosperity Certificates” were cashed in for Canadian currency at the earliest possible moment. Only a minute fraction were ever re-issued. It was an ill-conceived, (though no doubt well-intentioned), scheme right from the start. And has had the lasting effect of making the ‘political’ name ‘Social Credit’ synonomous with “funny money” ever since. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">---------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium<;o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">You're subscribed to this list with the email wmklinck@shaw.ca<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit<o:p></o:p></PRE> <DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center> <HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </DIV> No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. 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