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capital Triumpho
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
Peter/Joe Triumpho
Control of Policy MODERATO
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
RE: [socialcredit] Henry Ra
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: Neo-Georgism William
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
ecology of knowled Triumpho
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
nature and capital Triumpho
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
Re: Neo-Georgism-- William
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
ecology of knowled Triumpho
Neo-Georgism Triumpho
Re: [socialcredit] William
Neo-Georgism Triumpho
Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
Forwarded from Kev William
Re: [socialcredit] keith wi
RE: 'Tendering" thomsonh
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
help! Triumpho
ecology of knoweld Triumpho
human nature Triumpho
Re: [socialcredit] Adavans
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
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Message 4097     < Previous | Next >
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Subject:Re: [socialcredit] capital
Date:Friday, June 2, 2006  10:57:46 (-0400)
From:Keith Wilde <nschwartz @......ca>
In reply to:Message 4095 (written by Wallace M. Klinck)

My comments to Michael were prompted more by surprise and puzzlement than objection.  The Douglas text supplied by Wally is the kind of definition I would have expected. As may be inferred from my initial comments, I would be quite content to equate capital to Cultural Inheritance, for that would embrace expansions of the concept such as financial, human (intellectual) and social capital--all of which imply a residue of human action and interaction with raw nature.  I do resist the extension to nature, however, as inconsistent with the Cultural Inheritance concept of capital.  My objection to "natural capital" is current, as I see it used, promoted and defended by agencies of government (resources and environment protection) and by members of my social circle here in Ottawa.  Part of their excuse (rationale) for the practice is that it is used by World Bank.  That is consistent with my impression that the term was introduced by Herman Daly and John Cobb in their 1989 book, For the Comon Good.  I paid little or no attention to it at the time, and my objection when the term was introduced very recently by an relentlessly rigorous engineer-ecologist to our local discussion was doubtless sharpened by my introduction to Social Credit themes in the past few years. I remain unpersuaded by the promoters (although I do understand the appeal of the concept to those who view human behavior toward Nature as analogous to dissipating a financial inheritance). 
 
The congeniality of Social Credit to my habitual ways of thinking was probably conditioned by my lengthy acquaintance with an engineer-turned-philosopher of science who devoted most of his professional career to explaining the human predicament as a consequence of the growth of knowledge.  The exponentially increasing complexity of human relationships and existence impels a desire for some core simplification and a consequent means of addressing the compound of problems.  The quest (and lust) for power (over nature and over other humans) seems to be widely recognized as principal source of the problems.  Monetary and financial systems are the paramount expressions of this relentless quest. Governments, especially democratic ones, are an attempt to constrain the impacts of financial power, but they are ultimately subservient to it.  That is the trajectory or thought process which brings me to focus my last years of vitality on the institutions of money and finance as key to the welter of challenges to a humane future. 
 
So far, in the discussions of Social Credit that have caught my eye, there has been acknowledgement of resource and environment issues, as Michael says, with affirmations that Douglas' general approach would solve them.  But I have not seen explicit and persuasive consideration of the mechanisms by which this would be achieved.  I would like to get some discussion of Social Credit analysis going among my social club of rigorous gloomsayers, by the back door.  That is, by avoiding the knee-jerk reactions of inflation and Jewish conspiracy theory that are invited by mentioning the term.  To do so, I need some help.  A good way to provide it would be a response by Douglas enthusiasts to a recent call for papers that I relayed to my Ottawa colleagues.  In particular, how does ecology of knowledge impact Cultural Inheritance?
 
[A re-edited version of my mailing to local colleagues:] 
 
Quite a few of the Dissenters are acquainted with Prof. Jerzy Wojciechowski and have heard him make presentations invoking his theory that humankind is in an ecological relationship with knowledge.
 
The editor of The Trumpeter Journal of Ecosophy has invited papers to address the "ecology of knowledge" concept from the perspective of deep ecology. A descriptive exposition of Wojciechowski’s thesis [by Wilde and Caley] was published in the journal some months ago. It may be viewed at http://trumpeter.athabascau.ca/content/v20.1/ .
 
The journal is refereed and is published in electronic format only. Details about it may be consulted at the home page, http://trumpeter.athabascau.ca/ .
 
After several years of effort to present his main ideas in compact form, Wojchiechowski devised a series of pictographs in chart form, which he would present visually while talking about concepts. We obtained hand-drawn copies of the charts and engaged a sympathetic assistant with the appropriate software to make them easy on the eyes. Each chart is accompanied by a brief explanatory text. There are eleven of them in all, and they comprise the latter part of the article—more than half of the space. Which is to say that it is not a long article even if there seem to be quite a few pages.
 
[The latter half of the paper, the pictographs, is my own contribution to the paper, in which I was assisted by my son for the technical part.  My commentary emphasizes the problem aspect of knowledge, and that is the theme to which I particularly solicit applications of Cultural Inheritance.]
 
Information about the call for papers came to me last week from my co-author, who is also on the editorial board. He didn’t tell me where to have papers sent, but that info will doubtless be available before you can get your paper written!
 
Keith Wilde
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 2:26 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] capital

Major Douglas in The Monopoly of Credit, Fourth Edition, 1979:
 
Chapter IX, "Dividends for All"
 
"In a physical sense then we should be living in a world in which economic processes were carried out by two agencies, one, as heretofore, the agency of individual effort and from an economic point of view of decreasing importance, and the other, as the result of the plant, organisation, and knowledge which are the cumulative result of the effort not only of the present generation, but of the pioneers and inventors of the past.  This second agency can, of course, be collectively described as real (as distinct from financial) capital....
 
"Production is far more dependent upon real capital than it is upon labour, although without labour there is no production.  More and more the position of labour, using, of course, this word in its widest possible sense, tends to become the catalyst in an operation impossible without its presence, but carried on with a decreasing direct contribution from labour itself...."
 
Appendix I, Argument, Section I
 
"..the ostensible objective of industry is the production for use of goods and services to an extent rendered possible by the progress of the industrial arts.  The physical factors in the attainment of this objective consist of what are commonly called raw materials, which may reasonably defined as materials in the state in which they are found in nature, the application to these raw materials of a process involving, in the broad sense, tools, and thirdly, the expenditure of energy.  The distinguishing characteristic of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries is the rapid advance of process together with the rendering available of large amout of energy, which may be considered as derived for the sun.... for a given process the rate of production is proporionate to the rate of the use of energy....  The physical effect of these factors has therefore been to increase the rate of production of a given article per human unit of labour."
 
Comment:
 
It has been observed that Douglas added to the classic factors of production, i.e., "land, labour and capital," the concept of the "Cultural Heritage."  Real capital derives from the interaction of labour and raw materials .  The Cultural Heritage increases the efficiency of the productive process, which involves the interaction between labour and real capital.  Typically and historically this effect has been exponential.
 
Sincerely
Wally
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:26 PM
Subject: [socialcredit] capital

Keith objects to my including "raw materials" as "capital."  For one thing, I didn't say HOW raw.  Steel is a raw material, but it is not "just there." Ruskin's example is bulbs and tulips.  A bulb is a more natural form than steel, but I for one would never dare say a bulb was "just there."  I'm not sure where one can draw a line, or really what is the need to draw a line. 

"Economics is finally being applied to conserving nature as contrasted to merely consuming and exploiting it."  Social credit anticipated environmentalism (Douglas complaining of polution and the destruction of beautiful rural landscapes by mining and chemical industries).  The only difference is that Douglas regarded this as a higher form of EFFICIENCY, a careful stewardship of the natural world given us by God.  The conservation of nature can always be referred back to ultimate benefit to human beings of this or future generations.

Michael

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