eListas Logo
   The Most Complete Mailing Lists, Groups and Newsletters System on the Net
      HOME    SERVICES    SOLUTIONS    COMPANY    
Home > My Lists > socialcredit > Messages

 Message Index 
 Messages from 4078 to 4137 
SubjectFrom
capital Triumpho
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
Peter/Joe Triumpho
Control of Policy MODERATO
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
RE: [socialcredit] Henry Ra
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: Neo-Georgism William
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
ecology of knowled Triumpho
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
nature and capital Triumpho
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
Re: Neo-Georgism-- William
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
ecology of knowled Triumpho
Neo-Georgism Triumpho
Re: [socialcredit] William
Neo-Georgism Triumpho
Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
Forwarded from Kev William
Re: [socialcredit] keith wi
RE: 'Tendering" thomsonh
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
help! Triumpho
ecology of knoweld Triumpho
human nature Triumpho
Re: [socialcredit] Adavans
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
 << Prev. 60 | Next 60 >>
 
socialcredit
Main page    Messages | Post | Files | Database | Polls | Events | My Preferences
Message 4133     < Previous | Next >
Reply to this message
Subject:Re: [socialcredit] nature and capital
Date:Tuesday, June 6, 2006  14:34:26 (-0400)
From:Keith Wilde <nschwartz @......ca>
In reply to:Message 4120 (written by Triumphofthepast)

Yes, raw materials can be capital.  In fact, to the extent that they have been assembled by human action they inevitably are, by definitions of capital that I prefer.  So, I agree that raw materials do not equate to Nature. When I objected to Michael's usage I must have been thinking "natural resources", which is quite a differentiable concept.  Mixing the two together was doubtless conditioned by my recent and ongoing disagreement with environmentalists who have latched onto the the notion of "natural capital"--which is a distortion of the meaning supplied in classical economics, in the passages from Douglas supplied by Wally and in the exposition below, following Ruskin. 
 
Now that I have conceded Michael's point, I hope that someone will offer a similarly well-reasoned commentary on how natural capital can or cannot be accommodated in a Social Credit concept of capital.
 
Keith
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 11:10 AM
Subject: [socialcredit] nature and capital

The word "capital" is derived from Latin "caput," "head," and is defined by Ruskin as "head, or source, or root material; material by which some derivative or secondary good is produced."  This would include raw materials.  Or what else would you call something like seed-corn?  What else would you call a woodpile?  Neither of these are tools even in the widest sense.  Seed-corn derives from ancient materials of nature that have been modified by man continuously for thousands of years.  A woodpile consists of materials collected direct from nature (let us generously assume), but even then, the very act of collecting it is to expend labor on it and so turn it into "capital." 

Indeed, the very term "raw material" is quite different from "nature."  "Raw material" is an economic term and implies material from nature directed toward production.  Maybe Keith would agree with me that rocks of Pluto are not raw materials in any sense.  Nor are wild edible berries in a forest raw materials in and of themselves.  If I pick them to eat, they become consumer goods.  If I pick them to bake in a pie, they are capital.

Douglas in the passage quoted by Wally doesn't follow Ruskin's paradigm, quite.  He distinguished two "agencies" (i.e., actors) of production -- labor and capital (the latter including the Cultural Heritage) and three "factors" of production -- the two actors plus raw materials, considered to be passive.  So Douglas uses the term "capital" more narrowly, but this does not mean a substantive difference.  Both call for WISE USE of nature.

Michael

--------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at 
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium 
You're subscribed to this list with the email nschwartz@cogeco.ca 
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit 

Services:  HomeList Hosting ServicesIndustry Solutions
Your Account:  Sign UpMy ListsMy PreferencesStart a List
General:  About UsNewsPrivacy PolicyNo spamContact Us

eListas Seal
eListas is a registered trademark of eListas Networks S.L.
Copyright © 1999-2006 AR Networks, All Rights Reserved
Terms of Service