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RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
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RE: [socialcredit] John G R
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Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
Re: [socialcredit] W. McGun
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
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RE: [socialcredit] John G R
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RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
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Re: Neo-Georgism William
RE: [socialcredit] thomsonh
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Re: Neo-Georgism-- William
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ecology of knowled Triumpho
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Subject:Re: [socialcredit] Neo-Georgism
Date:Wednesday, June 7, 2006  23:39:09 (+1200)
From:W. McGunnigle <wmcgunn @.........nz>
In reply to:Message 4132 (written by Triumphofthepast)

Hi Chris
             On the nuclear question I refer you to my comment in reply to John Rawson about nuclear technology. There is however another heavy element capable of being used in nuclear reactors and that is Thorium232. To the best of my knowledge this element has not been exploited at all by the nuclear industry to date, but proposals have been forwarded from time to time. Uranium was the original element of choice because of the ease with which it could be changed into a weapons-grade material either U235 or Pu239. Thorium does not lend itself to weapons manufacture so easily. However the world's Thorium reserves outweigh the Uranium reserves by a factor of about 10, and it can be used as a fuel in nuclear reactors. The technology to do so is available now.
    Personally I view nuclear power supplies with mixed feelings. It can supply immense amounts of energy properly utilised, but will always leave us with a radioactive waste disposal problem. It is also limited to areas of limited seismic activity, because no one has yet been able to design a nuclear reactor that can withstand a Richter scale 9, Mercali Intensity 12 earthquake. I don't believe that is possible. Nuclear reactors in New Zealand, for instance, would be some type of suicide pact for us.
     With respect to to present "energy crisis" I simply observe that most of the oil being used is being consumed by very few countries in which Western Europe and North America figure very prominently. Globally this is unstable, < 30% of the world's population simply cannot continue to hog the world's energy supplies of oil without expecting heavy retribution from everyone else. They are able to hog this supply simply because they control the world's money supplies. Eventually the bubble will burst with dire consequences for those countries.
       Bill McG
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 5:33 AM
Subject: [socialcredit] Neo-Georgism

Dear William

Addressing your first point, where you rightly take issue with my
rather sloppy and incomplete phrase.

>"... the economic growth necessary for the system to continue lacks
>the availability of energy supplies to maintain it."

><snip>
>It's an article of faith of monetary cranks that
>If replaced by plants utilizing the breeder process,
>existing reserves will last some 100 million years.

Although it is of course true that there are immense amounts of oil
and other non-renewables available my point is that - even leaving
the emissions point to one side - we have essentially reached the
limit in terms of the LEVEL of production of energy. eg in barrels of
oil or equivalent/day to feed higher levels of economic growth.

The febrile state of the energy market, with unprecedented levels of
volatility, is evidence of that. I believe that within 1 to 3 years
we will see a major "meltdown" in the energy markets as massive
speculative positions taken by hedge funds and investment banks go
wrong.

Simply put, William, unlike the LTCM debacle,the Fed cannot print oil
to bail the market out.

As for alternatives, you are clearly more optimistic than I about the
capability of nuclear energy, and particularly the availability of
uranium supplies, where I bow to your knowledge and expertise.

Clearly uranium is much more plentiful and easy to extract than I was
aware, and fast-breeder technology cheaper, more robust and
sustainable than I thought.

But my argument in favour of renewables and against nuclear is a
simple economic one based upon total cost of ownership over time.

Virtually any renewables project eg tidal, hydro, wind (and possibly
some new solar technology) is "self-funding" simply by selling a
proportion of its future production at today's price (or maybe a
discount). This is so, because its input is free.

That is not the case for non-renewables or nuclear, where oil/gas etc
and uranium costs are high and getting higher, with no upward limit.
And of course most proponents of nuclear simply ignore the costs of
decommissioning and waste disposal - after all that is someone else's
problem.

So if an "asset-based" model (which capitalises the total cost of
ownership over time)is used instead of the existing "deficit-based"
economic model for energy then renewables simply wipe the floor with
anything else.

You should get your head around investment in productive assets using
forms (such as Trusts or LLP's/LLC's) other than limited companies:
it will be time well spent.

Before addressing your next point I remind you of this one, which you
have entirely bypassed.

>I would be interested to know exactly what it is that
>William has against the principle underpinning
>Georgism that those who have exclusive private use of
>a "Commons" - such as Land - should compensate those
>they exclude.

Do you have an answer to this?

>"There are now entire generations with no prospect of
>ever owning a property because prices have inflated
>out of sight."
>------------------------------------------------------------
<snip>
>I append it below. It contradicts explicitly your assertion above.

I live in the UK, William, a small country with a mature and inflated
housing market where I doubt whether you would find more than 1% of
the population who disagreed with my statement.

As you well know, the article was written in the US about the US
market about six months ago and before several more rises in the Fed
rate. You are obviously a lot more sanguine about the future of the
US housing market than I am.

The current US speculative housing bubble will deflate to a level at
which prices are supported by property rentals. Hopefully that will
not be too painful a process.

My point is that it is simply not necessary to borrow to purchase
property when you can occupy it indefinitely and/or invest in it
using a simple new legal tool, the "Land Partnership".

I believe that borrowing from credit institutions is both sub-optimal
and obsolete. You don't, which is your privilege.

Best Regards

Chris Cook
>>



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