eListas Logo
   The Most Complete Mailing Lists, Groups and Newsletters System on the Net
      HOME    SERVICES    SOLUTIONS    COMPANY    
Home > My Lists > socialcredit > Messages

 Message Index 
 Messages from 4244 to 4303 
SubjectFrom
Thirteen Years of MODERATO
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
Re: [socialcredit] keith wi
Real Wages Fail to MODERATO
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
Re: [socialcredit] Jim
The Higher Learnin Keith Wi
Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
Re: [socialcredit] Jim
Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
From The New Age MODERATO
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
These Present Disc MODERATO
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
The Control of Pro MODERATO
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
The Monopoly of Cr MODERATO
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
"What is Capitalis Wallace
A Mechanical View MODERATO
A+B as I C Jim
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Jim
The Delusion of Su MODERATO
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
Major Douglas repl MODERATO
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
The Mechanism of C MODERATO
Re: [socialcredit] William
Re: [socialcredit] William
Re: [socialcredit] william_
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
Re: [socialcredit] Peter Ha
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Jim
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] William
Messiah, Major, Mo MODERATO
The Question of Ex MODERATO
Unemployment and W MODERATO
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] William
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] William
Re: [socialcredit] William
 << Prev. 60 | Next 60 >>
 
socialcredit
Main page    Messages | Post | Files | Database | Polls | Events | My Preferences
Message 4266     < Previous | Next >
Reply to this message
Subject:Re: [socialcredit] Thirteen Years of Progress
Date:Wednesday, September 6, 2006  07:51:11 (-0400)
From:Keith Wilde <nschwartz @......ca>
In reply to:Message 4265 (written by Jim)

I haven't followed the Norts Spews very carefully since local newspapers stopped carrying Tank McNamara.  Thanks for the clarification re Normie Kwong.  I did recall hearing someting about him recently and thought it must have been an obituary!
 
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Thirteen Years of Progress

Hi Keith:
 
You don't know that Edmonton is the self-proclaimed "city of champions"?  They named it that after the five Grey Cups in a row, and the five Stanley Cups in 8 years.  I thought it was pretty lame at the time, because you can't win forever, and then it looks stupid.  However; we are the reigning Grey Cup champs - even if they won't make the playoffs this year.
 
I'm glad you had a good time in Alberta, if you're in Edmonton, let me know.
 
Normie Kwong?  Now that's going way back.  He's our Lieutenant Governor.
 
Take care,
 
Jim
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Thirteen Years of Progress

The weather was indeed great, Jim, but I avoided the cities--passed through Red Deer and Lethbridge briefly but took pains to skirt most of Calgary. The trip was pretty focused on family affairs, so I didn't get to see nearly as many people as I would have liked.  But so I won't be so ignorant on the next time round, tell me which is the "city of champions"?  About the last champ I can remember was Normie Kwong!
 
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Thirteen Years of Progress

Hi Keith:
 
How was your trip to Alberta?  We are getting awesome weather this summer.  Too bad you weren't in the "city of champions", because we could have got together for a coffee.
 
Take care,
 
Jim
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Thirteen Years of Progress

Hi Wally,
 
I just got back after midnight from two weeks in southern Alberta.  I see that you have not copied this to brother Bob, so perhaps you could forward for me.  I plan to go into the office for at least part of the day.  My number there is 613-990-8125.  The voice mail box will be full, but occasionally I can be caught at the desk.  Here in Aylmer the number is 595-6932, at 29 Rue de Brouage.
 
As you know, the document is quite long, and I wonder how much of it you need?  That is, you have indicated that you did have parts of the Committee hearings.  There is a significant break between appearances of Douglas, so you may in fact have all of it that would be of direct interest.  Do you want new photocopies of the whole because the ones you have are deteriorated by age to the point that scanning is difficult, or do you just want to verify that you have a "complete" text?
 
The volume containing the Committee hearings is in the main reading room at the National Library as distinct from the National Archives.  Perhaps Bob could meet me there later today and I could save him some time by walking with him to where I found the volume.
 
Keith
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 3:02 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Thirteen Years of Progress

Keith, yes I did receive your message but nothing further since that time.  Bob has tried to locate it in the Archives but without success.  He tried to contact you today in the hope that you might be able to direct him to the document's exact location.  I believe he will try to contact you again tomorrow.  I am looking for a quality photocopy from which to scan.

Wally

On 27-Aug-06, at 12:15 PM, keith wilde wrote:

Wally, I wonder if you (and others) failed to get my message of a few weeks ago about finding the 1923 testimeny of Douglas to the HofC Banking and Finance Committee? 
 
Keith Wilde

Wallace Klinck <wmklinck@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hello Bill!

Many thanks for this posting--I have used this article for many years as a helpful tool to assist in explaining Social Credit and recommend it heartily.  The same issue of The Social Crediter in which it appeared also carried a discussion between C. H. Douglas and Dr. Tudor Jones of Liverpool (then Deputy Chairman of the Social Credit Secretariat) re the excrescence upon the British landscape of the excessive industrialism which has been "necessitated", not to provide genuinely needed or desired consumer goods but, rather, by the need to keep up consumer financial demand in the context of a financial system which chronically and increasingly fails to place in the hands of the consuming public sufficient financial income to allow the liquidation of financial costs attached to each cycle of production.   This discussion has the advantage of emphasizing for the benefit of critics or sceptics, who imagine that the Social Credit policy of augmenting effective consumer income would result in a consumption frenzy and unsustainable, even destructive, demands upon the environment.  Most often, they do not seem to realize that it is the present financial system, which requires ever expanding capital production in order to continue "functioning",  which is the primary cause of useless, oppressive, wasteful and destructive demands upon the human and physical resources of society.   

The critics seem to be preoccupied with an assumed innate "weakness" or "evil" in essential human nature (a misguided concept of "Original Sin") and do not understand the self-regulating and balancing factors (e.g., homeostasis in physiology or sufficiency in physics, etc.) which are operative in nature when the latter is allowed to function in a normal manner.   They seem not to appreciate the role of insecurity deriving from a fear of life-threatening scarcity as a psychological factor in the realm of negative human behaviour.   Douglas said that we Social Crediters wish to create a new civilization based upon absolute economic security.  A ninety-three year old academic friend of mine, formerly a department head at the University of Saskatchewan,  has just completed for publication a three-hundred page manuscript on the subject of system feedback and balance as this applies to socio-economics in general--with emphasis on the destabilizing effect of  our existing unsound financial (banking) policy and institutions.  (Social Credit, of course, does not hold with established orthodoxy that a socio-economic system geared toward maintenance of full or near-full employment, rather than toward economic adequacy or even abundance with increasing leisure, is functioning properly in a benign or desirable and appropriate manner.) 

I have been highly occupied recently in making a move from the PC Windows platform to the iMac with Apple OS-X operating system.  The chore of setting up the new system, not to mention transferring my address book, e-mails and other data files has been considerable, requiring much time.

Your request for the  Canadian House of Commons "Seventh Report of the Select Committee on Banking and Commerce, 1923" has not been forgotten.  My younger brother said he would try to obtain a good copy within a few days and I hope then to be able to get a quality scan with the new version of my Iris OCR software for the iMac--provided it works without any problems.  Failing to obtain a better copy, I will proceed with what I now have at hand.

I have had some enquiries as to the status of the Elistas list from several people and I did not myself receive a return message to one sent recently as a test.  Anyway, it is good to know that everything now appears to be functioning and to receive this important posting from you.

Sincerely
Wally

On 26-Aug-06, at 12:03 PM, MODERATOR wrote:

Thirteen Years of Progress 
A Review of the Official Labour Party Publication,
"Socialism and Social Credit," 1935 
By A. HAMILTON McINTYRE, C.A. 

AUTHOR'S NOTE 

In writing this review of "Socialism and Social
Credit"--a Report issued by the Labour Party last year
and priced at twopence--I have had, first of all, to
consider whether the subject should be dealt with at
length or whether it should be disposed of in as short
a manner as possible. Was it worth while to deal with
the pamphlet, as it were, page by page, or should the
method to be adopted be one of putting down the
fundamental ideas of the authors of the pamphlet with
regard to the matters under consideration, and then,
shortly, contrasting these ideas with the fundamental
ideas of the Social Credit movement? 

My decision was taken in favour of dealing with the
matter at some length, following fairly strictly the
order of the Report. Whether or not the adoption of
such a method makes the review more interesting I
leave to the reader. The method obviously has
disadvantages, but these are possibly outweighed by
the ease with which the reader may deal with the
Report and this review concurrently. 

INTRODUCTORY 

It is stated that the Report was prepared by a
subcommittee at the request of the National Executive
Committee. Nothing is said about its submission to the
Labour Party Conference at Brighton early in October, 
1935, but it is understood that it was submitted to
that conference and was adopted. The following extract
is taken from the introductory note to the Report:- 

"The Report deals fully with Major Douglas's 'Social
Credit' proposals and the National Executive Committee
associates itself with the Subcommittee's conclusions
on this subject." (Page 3, line 4.) 

The subcommittee consisted of three members- E. F. M.
Durbin, Hugh Gaitskell, and W. R. Hiskett - each of
whom had, previous to their appointment, repeatedly
expressed their antagonism to the Social Credit
proposals. I think it is true to say, however, that no
one of them, in criticising Serial Credit, has ever
given much indication of having really studied the
main principles involved. Their criticisms have been
directed largely against what is known as the A + B
Theorem. 

Mr. Hiskett, from one point of view, might be called
the most logical critic of the Social Credit
contentions regarding the gap between purchasing power
and prices. He, at any rate, realises that if he is
not going to accept the A + B Theorem he is logically
compelled to postulate a condition of affairs where:- 

"The total volume of money is sufficient to purchase
at one time all final products awaiting sale or in
process of manufacture, all raw materials and
semi-manufactures and all the machinery for future
production at its present value after allowing for
depreciation." ("Social Credits or
Socialism."-Gollancz, 1935.) 

The committee state their purpose in the following
terms:- 

"What is the Douglas Scheme? How does it compare with
Labour's policy? Are there any points of agreement
between them? What are the points of disagreement, and
why?" (Page 6, line 4.) 

As to how far the committee have endeavoured to carry
out their avowed purpose I will leave the reader of
the Report to judge. It is probably agreed that they
have searched for all points of agreement; but have
they made any effort to find out and disclose in the
Report what the vital points of disagreement are, and
why? In view of the composition of the committee, one
naturally expects the Report to be an attack on Social
Credit, and so it is rather amusing to find that the
Report begins by setting forth the alleged "Points of
Agreement." 

FIRST POINT OF AGREEMENT? 

The first matter about which there is said to be some
agreement is connected with the deficiency in
purchasing power. It seems to me the committee suggest
that Douglas maintains that there is a chronic
deficiency between total purchasing power and RETAIL
PRICES, or prices of goods for immediate consumption.
This is illustrated by a statement in the Report that
in boom periods there is a surplus of purchasing power
over prices. This, the committee seem to think,
disposes of Douglas's case that the money system is
never self-liquidating. 

What the committee do not seem to grasp or,
alternatively, are quite determined to ignore, is that
the Social Credit case is that purchasing power is
never equal to TOTAL PRICES when both are regarded as
a flow. 

If purchasing power was chronically unequal to meet
the prices of consumable goods on the market at the
time, the system obviously would not last for very
long. 

The true position may be put thus:- 
(a) The rate of flow of purchasing power will be,
almost certainly, less than the rate of flow of prices
of CONSUMABLE GOODS when the rate of production of
intermediate and capital goods is slackened. 
(b) The rate of flow of purchasing rower will, almost
certainly, exceed the rate of flow of prices 0F
CONSUMABLE GOODS when the rate of production of
intermediate and capital goods is accelerated. 
(An inflationary rise of price and the investment of
excess profits must be mentioned here--it is embraced
in the A + B Theorem.) 
(c) The rate of flow of purchasing power will always
be less than the rate of flow of TOTAL PRICES. One
might possibly add here a proviso to the effect that
this may not be so during momentary periods of
wholesale bankruptcies and losses. Even then, however,
the deficiency will only be deferred. 

Industry must recover its bad debts out of future
prices, and losses must be restored by future profits.
In other words, bankruptcies and losses are themselves
a cost against the future. 

That the committee hold, or pretend to hold, the idea
that Douglas alleges a chronic deficiency between
purchasing power and prices of goods for consumption,
is further illustrated by the following quotation:- 

"During the boom, he (Douglas) admits the gap is
temporarily filled, but only by the creation of
additional debt to the Banks. This is. to Major
Douglas, evidence of deficiency." (Page 9. line 2.) 

The above is rather an extraordinary comment.
Commonsense would indicate that industry does not get
into debt unless it is unable to pay its costs from
its income, so that the fact of a creation of an
additional debt to the banks should, in all
commonsense, be evidence of deficiency. Yet the
committee seem to think that this particular statement
of theirs strikes a mortal blow at Social Credit. 

SECOND POINT OF AGREEMENT? 

The second point of agreement is stated to be the
common objection to destruction and restriction
schemes as a cure for economic depression. This is a
point of agreement, without doubt, but the Report goes
on to say that "both Socialists and Social Crediters
recognise the schemes for what they are--monopolies
which aim at holding up prices and squeezing the
utmost from the consumer." (Page 9, line 31.) 

I should hesitate to say that this sentence expresses
a point of agreement. There is just a subtle
distinction which illustrates the difference in
.outlook between a Socialist and a Social Crediter.
The Socialist sees in the situation the results of
greed, extortion, profit, and so on. The Social
Crediter sees the results of faulty arithmetic. The
Socialist sees an evil Capitalist extorting money from
the worker. The Social Crediter sees a harassed
business man trying his best to square his accounts. 

THIRD POINT OF AGREEMENT? 

The third point of agreement is stated to be a common
attitude to certain moral aspects of the banking
system. Reference is made to bank credit functioning
as money and the power of the banks to create and
cancel money. The Report then goes on to say:- 

"These facts were not discovered by Major Douglas.
They are to be found in all orthodox writings on the
subject and are clearly stated in the pages of the
Macmillan Report, but Major Douglas and other monetary
reformers have certainly popularised them better than
the Text Books and have also pointed to certain
implications which tend to be slurred over in more
orthodox accounts." (Page 10. line 9.) 

I am sure this paragraph must have given the committee
much thought in its composition. Major Douglas, I am
certain, would make no claim to being the first man to
have discovered the facts, but he is entitled to claim
that he published the facts and drew certain
conclusions from them in 1918. The facts were
certainly contained in textbooks prior to that
date--for example, H. D. McLeod's--but the conclusions
from the facts had not, so far as I know, been drawn
until Major Douglas's first publications. To suggest
that the Macmillan Committee had any share in
pioneering is merely laughable. The phrase "certain
implications which tend to be slurred over" is, I
think, worth a second thought. Apparently the
committee have also "slurred over" them. 

THE NATIONALISATION COMPLEX 

The Report proceeds, at some length, to consider the
Socialist conclusions from these facts regarding our
banking system, and it is obvious that the committee's
whole outlook is coloured by the nationalisation
complex. There is no suggestion made at all that even
if the banks were nationalised the methods used in
accounting the public moneys would be changed. The
complaint, according to the Socialist outlook, is
entirely that such powers are in the hands of private
persons or institutions. That no change of method is
contemplated is evident, I think, from the following
extract:- 

"That such great powers--of special significance now
that the money system of this country is not tied to
others through the Gold Standard--should be exercised
by bodies which are legally beyond the control of the
Government, is an anachronism as dangerous as it is
absurd." (Page 10, line 32.) 

I am not at all sure what interpretation is intended
to be given to this sentence, but the only conclusion
I can come to is that the committee would not see so
much harm in the condition described if the Gold
Standard was in operation. This shows quite clearly, I
think, how much they have misunderstood the true
position. That the committee are suffering from the
complex I have suggested is further confirmed by the
concern they show over the profits which the Bank of
England makes. Pointing out that the profits of the
Issue Department fall to the Treasury, they seem to
think that so far as the Issue Department is concerned
that problem is disposed of; but they also point out
that since credit is not less money than cash and bank
credit is quantitatively of much more importance
"there is a strong moral case against the exploitation
of credit creation for the purpose of making private
profits." (Page II, line I.) 

All the above shows clearly that the committee have
not concerned themselves with the method of issue and
cancellation of money, but rather with the titular
right to create money and the profits accruing from
such right. It is quite fair to suggest that if the
committee had their way and the banks were
nationalised, the same methods of issuing and retiring
money would still be in operation and the essential
problem, therefore, would be no nearer a solution. An
admission is made in the Report that expenditure on
public works can be carried out only by incurring
further debt, thus burdening future taxpayers with
interest and sinking fund payments. The Report
states:- 

"Simply because the right of creating new money does
not belong to the State. the necessary impetus to
recovery cannot be given." (Page II, line 26.) 

One is left wondering how, if the right to create new
money belonged to the Labour Party, they would account
it. There is nothing in the Report, so far as I am
aware, to show that they would account it as anything
else but debt, nor that they would not insist on its
recovery via taxation. It is true that this point is
dealt with to a certain extent on page 32 of the
Report, but it is stated that where debt is not repaid
out of taxation it is only a temporary expedient and
the quantitative issues of such credit will not be
large. 

Before coming to their criticism of the Social Credit
analysis the committee make the following statement:- 

"It is most unlikely that the full Social Credit
proposals could be applied without either producing
inflation or making it impossible for the Banks to
exist in their present form." (Page II, line 34.) 

This statement is used as an argument for
nationalisation. It is quite carefully worded. If we
amend the terms of it a little, I think most Social
Crediters would agree with it as follows:- 

Social Credit proposals cannot be applied within the
present money system. They can be applied only in a
changed money system and such change involves a change
in the policy of the banks and the Treasury. 

It is merely childish at this time of day to say the
Social Credit methods would cause inflation. Social
Credit could not be applied within any system which
permits of inflation. 

The committee of the Labour Party is simply up to the
old game of criticising Social Credit in terms of
orthodox finance. 

THE A + B THEOREM 

The second division of the Report is stated to be a
criticism of the Social Credit analysis, and early in
this section the A + B Theorem is quoted. This
theorem, it is said, is the central argument on which
Major Douglas bases his conclusion. I would suggest
that this is entirely wrong, and that the A + B
Theorem is the method by which Major Douglas
illustrates his conclusion. 

According to the committee of the Labour Party, the
suggestion seems to be that one day Major Douglas
discovered the A + B Theorem and the rest of the
analysis followed. However pretty the mental picture
conjured up by such a suggestion, I am afraid that
idea must be discarded. 

The A + B Theorem is merely a condensed method of
stating facts which were discovered by independent
means. 

In Major Douglas's first published book, "Economic
Democracy ," the A + B Theorem does not appear. 

The committee having decided to deal with the A + B
Theorem, it is a pity, to my mind, that they could not
quote it correctly in their Report. They state:- 

"A factory, or other productive organisation, has,
besides its economic function as a producer of goods,
a financial object." (Page 12,line 34-my italics.) 

While it is true that productive organisations have a
financial object under the present system, that is
precisely what the Social Crediter says is wrong. The
correct statement of the A + B Theorem begins by
saying:- 

A factory, or other productive organisation, has,
besides its economic function as a producer of goods,
a financial aspect, which is an entirely different
matter. 

The Report proceeds to examine the A + B Theorem in
its different interpretations. I do not intend to deal
with these at length, as they have already, to my
mind, been ably dealt with by Mr. A. W. Joseph in a
pamphlet called "The A + B Theorem." 

Broadly speaking, the Report ignores the facts of
accumulation of financial capital and involuntary
investment and, therefore, its arguments against the
theorem are weak. I will, however, deal with a few of
the higher lights in this section of the Report. 

Under the division headed "Repayment of Bank Loans"
the Report says:- 

"Now it is certainly true that if on balance
throughout the whole of industry loans are repaid to
the Banks, a deficiency of purchasing power is bound
to arise...The question here is simply one of fact. Is
there a tendency for the total of Bank loans to
diminish? The answer is, that at certain times--during
depressions--this is the case, but at other times the
total of loans definitely expands." (Page 16, line 5.)

Further on in the Report it is stated:- 

"Equally, if a firm is voluntarily repaying a loan out
of profits, and the Banks do not immediately create
another loan to another producer, then again
deficiency is bound to arise, but as we have already
said, the question here is really one of fact and the
facts show no general and chronic tendency for the
total of Bank loans to diminish." (page 17, line 9.) 

The argument here is not very clearly stated, but I
think it is fair to assume that the committee admit
that repayment of bank loans charged into prices and
appearing, therefore, as profit, do create a
deficiency of purchasing power, but that such
deficiency is corrected by the banks issuing further
loans to other producers, and, therefore, so long as
total bank loans do not show any sign of diminishing,
there is no deficiency. 

In my opinion, this illustrates the fundamental
difference between the views of the committee and the
views of the Social Crediter. Social Crediters
realise, as the committee apparently does not, that
these further bank loans to other producers have got
to be repaid, and, therefore, do not correct the
admitted deficiency--they merely postpone it. 

The committee evidently do not see that bank loans
repaid may undergo a metamorphosis and become
securities or reserves which still remain a charge
against the ultimate consumer. 

It is surely obvious that industrial debt and national
debt, requiring ultimately to be met and forming a
charge against the consumers (admittedly unpayable
under the present system), are not to be measured by
the increase in bank loans. While bank loans have on
balance probably diminished since 1920, Government,
municipal, and industrial debt has increased in
fantastic proportions. The committee's failure to see
this arises from the fact that they ignore
accumulations of financial capital in considering the
A+B Theorem. 

A little later in the Report it is stated:- 

"It is, in fact, the policy of the Labour Party to
stabilise prices; and prices can only be stabilised,
when production is increasing, if there is an adequate
increase in the quantity of money." (Page 17, line
3B.) 

It seems to be clear from this statement that the
committee look on stabilisation as having some
miraculous quality, and it is also clear that they
regard the volume of money as being something which
should control prices which again goes to show that
they have not understood the principal Social Credit
contention, which is that the money system must no
longer be used to control prices through the so-called
law of supply and demand. Prices should be controlled
by the real cost of production. 

THE ILLUSIVE INVESTMENT 

In three paragraphs under the sub-heading of
"Investment," the committee go on to record their
criticism of an aspect of the deficiency. They record
the views of the Social Crediter in the following
terms:- 

"The act of saving withdraws money from the market for
finished commodities and makes it impossible to sell a
part of the product. The money which is saved is
invested and paid out eventually in wages, and so
passes into consumers' income; but in the meanwhile,
it is argued, the process of investment has led to the
production of new capital goods and there is no
purchasing power available to purchase these." (Page
IB, line 15.) 

The above statement of the Social Credit case is a
reasonably fair one, but it does emphasise the problem
as if it was entirely one of individual consumers or
workers saving actual cash from their incomes and
buying new investments. It ignores, or at any rate
does not make it clear, that the processes of saving
and investing are going on all through the industrial
system and are being carried on by producers of all
kinds in the form of reserves and undistributed
profits. 

The Report goes on to say that the above stated
argument is quite unsound, for the reason that if
investment takes place concurrently with saving the
deficiency caused by the saving is balanced by the
money spent on the investment. 

"It is true that if saving increases, some finished
commodities cannot be sold at their old prices, but at
the same time some investment goods, machinery,
buildings, raw materials, etc., will be sold at more
than cost prices. There will be depression in certain
industries and boom in others; less money will be
distributed in some, and more in others. Consumers'
income as a whole will be unchanged." (Page 18, line
36.) 

One is left wondering what on earth the committee
meant when they wrote this. Investment goods,
machinery, buildings, raw materials, etc., are not
sold in the sense that their costs are defrayed. They
are merely transferred from one ownership to another,
the financial costs attaching to thein still remaining
to be defrayed by the only person who can defray
costs, namely, the consumer. 

The following quotation, I think, shows clearly the
wrong ideas on which the committee are working. It
occurs shortly after the previously quoted extract:- 

"As the new capital goods are produced, they will
continue to be bought by the savings of consumers.
They will then be used in production. This will lead
to an increase in the output of industry. If there is
to be no fall in prices, it is necessary that the
quantity of purchasing power and the incomes of
consumers should now be increased. This is, of course,
implicit in the Labour Party policy of stabilising
prices. A failure to increase purchasing power at this
point might be said to constitute a deficiency; but it
is certain that this is not the main deficiency to
which Major Douglas refers." (Page 19, line 12.) 

This extract is, I think, worth a little careful
study. Take the first sentence. The suggestion that
new capital goods are bought by the savings of
consumers is nonsense if it is intended to suggest, as
I think it quite clearly is, that the costs incurred
in making these new capital goods are thereby wiped
out. If new capital goods are paid for by the savings
of consumers, the consumers who did pay for them are
now investors holding shares, mortgages, or
debentures, in the form of scrip. They look to this
scrip to bring them a return in the way of income and
ulrimately to repay to them the money originally paid
for the scrip. If consumers, as a whole, have invested
in capital goods, then they can only look to
themselves as the source out of which their dividends
are to come and out of which their capital is to be
repaid to them. 

Consider the sentence above, beginning "If there is to
be no fall in prices." This again shows quite clearly
that the committee of the Labour Party think that the
volume of money should control price. One can only
assume from the next sentence that the official Labour
Party policy of stabilisation recognises that in these
circumstances there would be a deficiency of
purchasing power and that they have a remedy for such
deficiency. This remedy can take only one of two
forms. It can take the form of encouraging still
further increased production of capital goods, or it
can take the form of distributing free credit either
to the consumer or to the producer for reduction of
prices. 

There seems to be no doubt whatever which of the above
two forms would be adopted by the Labour Party. It
must be the former, through which schemes of public
works or the encouragement of production of still
further capital goods would provide an agency by means
of which an increased total volume of wages would
serve the purpose of preventing too severe a fall in
the prices of finished goods. 

STATIONARY EQUILIBRIUM? 

The committee's arguments under the heading of
"Depreciation" are a re-hash of the old argument that
while depreciation is being charged on one factory,
there would, or should, be another factory in the
process of erection, the wages paid on the
construction of which would meet the depreciation
charged on the first factory. 

It is merely another aspect of the argument about
industry being in a state described by Professor
Robbins as "Stationary Equilibrium," or, if one
prefers it, "A steady state of self-repeating
movement." 

The argument takes no account whatever of the fact
that although a factory may take only one year to
build, it may take fifty years to wear out, and seeing
such an argument in print, or listening to it in
conversation, has always conjured up a vision before
my eyes in which the erection of the second factory is
carefully scheduled to take fifty years to build, in
order that the money distributed in course of its
erection will correspond to the depreciation charged
on factory number one. 

SUBTLETY 

The opponents of Social Credit have often said, as
indeed the Labour Party's Report suggests, that Major
Douglas in his writings is very obscure. What, then,
are we to make of the clarity of the following extract
from the Report?-- 

"A more subtle form of this argument maintains that
the actual change-over from labour to machines causes
a diminution of the actual monetary circulation. Since
cost reduction, it is maintained, is the stimulus to
replace labour with machines, the new costs will be
less than the old, and hence the amount of money used
by industry will be less. There are doubtless
occasions when this will be so, but it seems equally
probable that since the reduction of costs offers the
prospect of higher profits, more, rather than less,
will be borrowed by industry. Because a firm reduces
its unit costs, it does not necessarliy reduce the
total amount which it spends, i.e., its aggregate
costs." (Page 20, line 25.) 

The last sentence in the above extract is, of course,
a clear statement of fact, but what the meaning, or
intention, of the paragraph as a whole is, I must
confess I do not know. Presumably this "subtle form of
the argument" is being fathered on to the Social
Credit movement, but Social Crediters will have no
hesitation in disowning it. 

LABOUR SAVING 

This particular section of the Report finishes up by
saying that "the real objection to the replacement of
labour by machinery" is that it "generally throws
certain workers out of employment," and that:- 

"in any case it continually tends to reduce the
relative share of labour in the product and increase
the share of capital." (Page 20, line 40.) 

The Social Credit proposal, as we all know, is to give
every citizen of the country a share in the capital of
the country in the form of a National Dividend, or, if
you like to look on it in that way, to make everybody
a capitalist. 

But the Labour Party committee say:- 

"The method of dealing with this evil is not monetary
policy, but Socialism. The community must, itself, own
the machines." (Page 20, line 41.) 

It is evident, therefore, that the committee are still
unable to distinguish between titular ownership and
administration. 

Incidentally, no Social Crediter has any objection,
real or fancied, to the displacement of labour by
machinery, but, on the contrary, welcomes it. 

WHEN DOCTORS DIFFER 

The third section of the Report is devoted to a
consideration of the Social Credit cure, and the
Report admits that this cure follows, for the most
part, quite logically from the analysis. It is
therefore rather extraordinary that, having to their
mind completely disposed of the analysis, they should
be at any trouble at all to deal with the cure.
However, actually almost seven pages of the Report
concern themselves with exposing the "fallacies" of
the cure. 

This particular aspect of the matter is dealt with by
the committee in the following terms:- 

"Before proceeding to consider this scheme, we must
emphasise that disagreement with Major Douglas's
analysis is not in itself an adequate reason for
rejecting his proposals entirely. It has already been
pointed out that at a time when resources are not
fully employed an increase in the quantity of money is
required. Major Douglas does, in fact, suggest one way
by which this might be provided. It remains to be seen
how far this is the best way, and also how far the
Social Credit proposals can secure not only the
achievement but also the maintenance of a high level
of production." (Page 22, line 1.) 

The above paragraph confirms my previous contention
that the committee had, at the back of their mind,
some faint hope or fear--whichever way you like to put
it--that the Social Credit proposals might possibly be
operated within the present system. Having failed
altogether to consider in any adequate way the basis
on which the Social Credit proposals are founded, the
committee naturally adopt the above outlook. If the
committee had really examined the basic ideas which
are fundamental to the Social Credit proposals, and
rejected them, then there would have been no necessity
whatever for them to deal with the remedial proposals
at all. 

The Social Credit proposals fall under three heads:- 
(I) The setting up of a National Credit Account: This
proposal is based on a conception of Real Credit. 
(2) The compensated price, sometimes referred to as
the just price, or the national discount: This is
based on the axiom that the real cost of production is
consumption, together with a realisation of the uses
to which financial credit can be put. 
(3) The issue of a National Dividend: This is based on
the previous conceptions together with a realisation
of the part played in production by what is called
"The Cultural Inheritance." 

The astonishing thing about the whole Report is that
nowhere in it is there any sign that the committee
have considered either:- 
(a) The distinction between Real Credit and Financial
Credit. 
(b) The axiom that the real cost of production is
consumption, or 
(c) The idea of The Cultural Inheritance. 

Nowhere in the Report are any of these three things
mentioned, and yet, as I have said, these three things
are the fundamentals of Social Credit. 

With regard to (b), namely, the axiom that the real
cost of production is consumption, it is not
surprising that the Labour Party committee do not deal
with this, because, so far as I know, no critic of
Social Credit has ever dealt with this. They have all
considered it much wiser to ignore it. 

STRANGE SILENCE 

Assuming, for the moment, that the present mqney
system works as the committee seem to think it does:-
In any one year let us suppose that the financial
figures attaching themselves to the total production
of the country are as follow:- 

Consumable goods                      £3,000 million 
Capital goods and development     £1,000 Total
production                                 £4,000
million 

Then, presumably, the committee's conception of what
happens is that people as a whole get £4,000 millions,
out of which they spend £3,000 and invest £1,000. The
question is, have the community been fairly charged? 

If it is true that the real cost of production is
consumption, then. the real cost of this year's
production is only £3,000 million, not £4,000 million,
and the correct price at which the £3,000 million of
consumable goods should have been charged was-£3,ooo x
- 3,000/4,000 or £2,250 million; so that on a question
which suggests that the community as a whole are
possibly being overcharged £750 million per annum, the
Report is curiously silent. 

THE DIVIDEND 

The section of the Report which deals with the
National Dividend is very small. Its value as
effective criticism is even smaller. Reference in it
is made to the Draft Scheme for Scotland which should,
at any rate, suggest that the committee have studied
that scheme.  On the other hand, the paragraph goes on
to suggest that it is proposed to distribute
purchasing power equal to the total capital value of
all assets. 

There is, of course, no such proposal in the Draft
Scheme for Scotland. The initial National Dividend in
the scheme is suggested at one per cent. of such
capitalised value, so that to the mind of the
committee one per cent. must be equal to the total.
This short paragraph on the National Dividend
illustrates also the previous contention that the
committee have made no study whatever of the question
of Real Credit and Financial Credit. The following
extract will make this clear:- 

"An obvious fallacy here lies in the fact that