eListas - My Lists: socialcredit: Messages

In terms of a central bank carrying out the function of a "national credit authority", we in NZ have long decided that it could do so here, with little or no legislative changes. Or that it could carry out the functions under the direction of a non-political authority, depending whether you are looking at policy or financial practice. Our Reserve Bank is a public institution, since the late 1930's. The central banks of Canada, Australia, and more recently, England, also are publicly owned.

Other nations, including the USA, would need to move theirs out of the private sector to do this. I am aware that the US President has some say in appointment of personnel etc., but nevertheless, the Federal Reserve is a private organisation. Which in turn probably has a lot of say in the political field.

Regards. John R.

From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Comments From Vic Bridger
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 14:31:31 -0800 (PST)
>The discussion titled "A brief outline of Social
>Credit" after the title of Victor's essay published a
>couple of years ago in Michael Journal, commenced with
>my posting of February 28. Our archives are open and
>may be accessed by anyone, regardless whether or not
>that person is a subscriber.
>
>The comments Victor is objecting to were written by
>me, Joe, and others.
>
>He says there is a completely one-sided obsession in
>discussing monetary matters to the exclusion of all
>else. Be that as it may, the majority of Victor's
>essay, which we are discussing, is concerned with
>monetary matters.
>
>He says he has never used the term, "call loans." He
>may in fact have never used the term, but this is the
>relevant statement from his outline:
>
>"It must be remembered that the banks have
>discretionary powers to call in loans and overdrafts
>even before the goods they brought into existence have
>been sold, and they sometimes exercise this power with
>disastrous effects on the community."
>
>The discretionary powers to which he is referring are
>named in the lexicon of banking, "call loans." Most
>bank credit today is most definitely not in the form
>of call loans, in an almost complete reversal of the
>situation existing before 1913.
>-
>
>Victor objects to my characterization of the concept
>of the National Credit Authority as already existing
>in the form of central banks. I have stated that
>every power possessed by the hypothetical National
>Credit Authority is already possessed by central
>banks, which are creatures of legislation. There is
>nothing, except policy inhibitions, preventing the
>central banks from crediting the account of any
>depositor, in any amount deemed appropriate, in their
>respective banking systems.
>
>If we must use the pained term, "debt-free money,"
>possibly Victor does not know that the central banks
>already inject money "debt-free" into their respective
>systems through their so-called "open market"
>operations. It is one of the important things that
>keeps the system going. The problem is that it is
>injected from the top down through Wall Street
>brokers, rather than percolating from the bottom up,
>through final consumers. So it is far less effective
>than would be the case with the Social Credit
>alternative.
>-
>
>He objects to my statement that "the monopoly derives
>mostly from the clearing function that requires a
>great deal of coordination between banks," but doesn't
>quite say why. He says, "on the contrary," but
>follows that with a statement that appears to me to
>complement rather than contradict my statement.
>-
>
>I'll simply say that this assertion is factually
>incorrect:
>
>"When a bank through the fractional reserve system
>lends $1,000,000 the cost is practically nothing more
>than if it lends out $100."
>
>The real cost difference between the two loans, as a
>statistical matter, in terms of the real cost of
>supplying financial services to the public, is on the
>order of ten thousand to one.
>-
>
>Perhaps there is a typo in this:
>
>"By the way, I did not say, 'Making loans is NOT
>'costless'."
>
>Did he not mean to say, "I did not say, 'making loans
>is costless.'"?
>
>Bill
>
>
>--- Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>Vic has e-mailed the following to me, with the request
>that it be posted to the "list"
>
>Joe
>
>Hi Joe,
>
>I am sending the following which you may wish to put
>up on the eListas site.
>
>To all participants on eListas,
>
>It has been drawn to my attention that discussions
>have been occurring in which I have been mentioned and
>quoted.
>
>I withdrew from the previous discussion group for
>reasons which I explained then and from what I have
>seen there has been no change in the attitude and
>waste of time involved in these discussions.
>
>For heavens sake it is no wonder that no progress has
>been made in promoting the positives of Social Credit.
>There is a completely one-sided obsession in
>discussing monetary matters to the exclusion of all
>else. I will say no more on this.
>
>As for references to what I said I shall make the
>following comments.
>
> 1. There has been a suggestion that used the term
>“call loans”. I would like someone to offer the exact
>place in which I used that term. Having suggested that
>I used the term there followed criticism and, as usual
>a tangent or digression completely away from the
>original alleged statement.
> 2. It has been stated that a National Monetary
>Authority exists in the form of Central Banks. In
>Social Credit terminology, that is a nonsense and to
>suggest that Central Banks are the same as a National
>Credit Authority as would exist under a Social Credit
>accounting system is not only incorrect but suggests
>that the writer has not done the proper homework.
>
>It has been suggested that on the Monopoly of Credit
>that “The monopoly derives mostly from the clearing
>function that requires a great deal of coordination
>between banks”. On the contrary, the Monopoly of
>Credit relates to the banking system as a whole, which
>exercises a monopoly through its ability to create the
>major portion (around 97% - and don’t hold me to a
>percentage or 2!) of what is accepted as the nation’s
>money supply and regards it as its own.
>
>3. It has been said by one that he is not in agreement
>100% with what I have said. As I am not a participant
>in this discussion group it is a pity that this was
>not relayed to me directly so that, perhaps, I may be
>able to clarify.
>
>There appears to be some consternation at my use of
>the expression that banks “create the means of payment
>out of nothing”. Then is added an “opinion” that I was
>suggesting a sense of “revulsion” at this and that
>what the banks do is “fraudulent. This argument is
>then extended again into a fruitless argument. Again I
>am criticised because I stated that “The actual
>creation of credit is an almost costless operation."
>Not only Sir could you “say” it is true” to put it
>into your words, but it is in fact it *is* true. To
>extend this statement to suggest that I have
>overlooked that banks have costs is quite
>unforgivable. I can assure you that in fifty years of
>accounting I am fully aware of business practices. To
>create a $100 currency note using the same material
>costs practically nothing more than to print a $5
>currency note. When a bank through the fractional
>reserve system lends $1,000,000 the cost is
>practically nothing more than if it lends out $100.
>Please stick to facts and not raise straw man
>arguments particularly when my name is involved. By
>the way, I did not say, “Making loans is NOT
>'costless'.
>
>Vic Bridger
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________________________
>Don't pick lemons.
>See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
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