| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] A brief outline of Social Credit | | Date: | Sunday, March 11, 2007 16:15:05 (-0500) | | From: | Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu @....ca>
|
| In reply to: | Message 4553 (written by Martin Hattersley) |
Thanks, Martin. I wouldn't disagree with that at all.
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Hattersley" <hattersleyjm@interbaun.com>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] A brief outline of Social Credit
> Joe -
>
> I believe one answer is that under a Social Credit regime, much more of
> production will be self financed by investors, who do not necessarily have
> to establish a line of credit with a bank in order to go into business. In
> other words, the publisher can tell the banks to go to hell, and raise
funds
> as necessary from like minded investors. It's known as "Economic
Democracy".
>
> Martin Hattersley
> 5929 - 189 St.,
> EDMONTON AB CANADA T6M 2J1
>
> e-mail:----- jmartinh@shaw.ca
>
> Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 7:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] A brief outline of Social Credit
>
>
> (Wally wrote:-) "Does the banking system have the ethical right to
dictate
> the use to which these resources are planned to be directed?"
>
> (Joe asks:-) I would say, as a general matter, "No." The banking system
> doesn't really have the 'ethical right' to do that. Douglas made that
> clear, I believe, in one of his 'railway ticket, bank as the ticket
office'
> analogies. But it seems to me that there might be a bit of a 'grey area'
> here, too.
>
> To use the example you gave, of the 'publishing company' that had its
credit
> terminated because it printed a series of articles critical of banks, (and
> I'm not saying such things don't happen), how would the Social Credit
> financial proposals, which are applied to the economy as a whole, correct
> that?
>
> We have prevented a 'credit contraction' in that economy as a whole, and
> eliminated that as a business risk. But aside from that, how does that
> change the relationship between the bank, or banks, and its individual
> customer? The errant publisher, in this case?
>
> If the publisher's financials indicated his firm was otherwise sound, and
> that the banks conspired to 'put him under' by withdrawing needed credit,
> and prevented him from obtaining it elsewhere, in order to enforce their
> 'will' over him, then surely he would have recourse at law? How else
would
> the Social Credit proposals deal with such a situation?
>
> Lets take it beyond that, hypothetically. Suppose in the publiher's
> critical articles on banking there had been references to certain members
of
> the usual 'group' that's long been associated with all things 'financial'.
>
> Suppose that some members of that certain 'group' took exception to the
> tone of the articles, which we'll assume were mild enough to not be
branded
> 'hate literature', (If that's still possible nowadays), and so couldn't be
> dealt with that way..
>
> But they were still annoying enough to them that they decided to teach
that
> publisher a lesson. Only rather than withdrawing his credit, which they
may
> not be in any position to directly do, they passed the word amongst
members
> of their 'group' to effectively 'boycott' that publisher's products. At
the
> 'upper levels' of it, first, perhaps.
>
> Perhaps one of those receiving that word was the owner of a major
bookstore
> chain. Which then declined to renew any orders for any of that
publisher's
> products.
>
> Now this would surely affect the publisher's financials, if he had
> previously been selling any quantity of his product through them, would it
> not? . And if he were a puiblisher, as I would imagine a lot of
publishers
> these days may be, with his loan based primarily on 'earnings' and without
a
> lot of collateral security behind it, could the bank then be faulted for
> withdrawing his credit?
>
> For surely they couldn't be expected to continue to provide credit to a
firm
> which had just lost much of its ability to repay it? How would the Social
> Credit proposals deal with a situation such as this, which is completely
> hypothetical, of course, but still perhaps within the realm of
possibility?
>
>
>
>
> From: Wallace Klinck
> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 2:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] A brief outline of Social Credit
>
>
> Surely, we are all aware of businesses which have been terminated and/or
> foreclosed by the calling of a bank loan, not because the business was not
> viable in the ultimate sense but because of an arbitrary general credit
> squeeze which restricted general demand and contracted what would
otherwise
> have been normal market demand for the goods and services offered by that
> business. When a business gets a call from the bank it can be, and often
> has been, an ominous sign for the fate of that business. Merely by way of
> example, I know of one publishing company which was terminated promptly by
> the calling of an operating loan. This was a publishing company which
chose
> to run a series of articles which were critical of the banking system. As
> the old saying goes, a bank offers you a accommodation when the sun is
> shining but withdraws it when the rain begins to fall! A bank loan allows
> the monetization of one's real credit or assets in order that one can
> obtain, for some chosen purpose to be pursued in association with others,
a
> general monetary claim on the community's resources. Does the banking
> system have the ethical right to dictate the use to which these resources
> are planned to be directed? Who owns the community's physical
> resources--and who should own the monetary representation of them which
> results from the accountancy services offered by a bank which simply
allows
> their monetization through extension of financial loan? The banks--or the
> consuming public?
>
>
> Wally
>
>
>
>
> On 3-Mar-07, at 6:53 PM, Joe Thomson wrote:o
>
>
>
>
> (Jim wrote:-) In my opinion, the problem with Vic's statement is
that
> it focuses solely on "call loans", which, as you state below, do not
> represent most financing arrangements.
>
> I think the point that should be made is that banks have the power
to
> set the terms of any loan, and according to those terms, the loans most
> often get repaid before the goods that they brought into existence can be
> consumed, and this produces a "gap" between income and prices.
>
> (Joe replies:-) I'm sure there are a great many more ways of
> 'financing' available now than there were in Douglas's time. So I think
> there would be quite a bit more flexibility nowadays in regards to 'terms'
> than was once the case.
>
> But the business still has to have 'prospects' of success, and
likely
> produce financial projections of viability, or have very solid collateral
> security, or both.
>
> And I don't think you'd find any banker, even from the Canadian
> government's own Business Development Bank, ("the lender of last resort",
as
> it used to be known), who'd want to extend the period of repayment past
the
> expected life of the asset being financed. Unless he had a death wish for
> his bank.
>
> I would think that a properly constituted National Credit Office
would
> record and make the necessary corrections in regards to having sufficient
> effective demand available in the economy as a whole in order to bridge
the
> collective 'gap' that develops from this cause.
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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